Noob question - So if you have stone henge like floor standing speakers, do you need a subwoofer?

NeilF

NeilF

NeilF

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Looking at updating my surround sound system, and wondering space wise, if you have a pair of those more impressive tall floor standing speakers (rather than shelf sized speaker), do you still need a dedicated subwoofer for bass? Or can those floor standing speakers cover those lower frequencies?

I'm assuming a woofer would still be required? (Mainly for home theatre bass?)
 
Well, Sir. It all depends on size... oo-er missus :D

For music, we can hear down to about 20Hz, and below that we feel to sound wave energy and hear the overtones and harmonics that are at 20Hz and above. For example, the bigger pipe organs can get down well below 20Hz, so if you were in the audience listening to a piece being played that made use of those lower notes then it was your body vibrating plus hearing the harmonics.

The LFE track for movies ranges from 120Hz all the way down to a theoretical minimum of 3Hz, but you'd have to have a hell of a sub to get down to that cleanly.

In music systems it's pretty difficult (but not impossible) to get floorstanding speakers that will go down to 20Hz cleanly and with the same audio energy as they produce at say 50Hz. They're just big and very expensive. It's one of those Law-of-Diminishing-Returns-things. The thing is for music, we don't need speakers to get much below about 40Hz to feel like we are hearing really good bass.

Movies is something different. There's something about the sound of a T-Rex stomping, or an 88 shell, or the Cyberdyne offices exploding that calls out for huge bass. We can get a taste of it from floorstanders that get down to say 45Hz @ -3dB, but it's not the same as a 12" sub hitting 15Hz in-room, or something even bigger digger deeper.
 
Yes even the best floor standards pale to a sub my floorstanders have 3*8'" drivers and they are nothing compared to the 13" sub

for music and normal TV can get away with it but for a film movies sub essential
 
Only the biggest and best floorstanders are capable of subwoofer levels, lookingat dedicated 10" drives, powered by own amp.

Definitive technology made a few speakers with subs built in.

But multiple bass sources are a problem.
 
NeilFawcett said:
So given it's a home theatre setup (as well as music), a woofer would still be required...

Thanks...
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I depends. Size of the room, material you watch, what amp and speakers you have, expected spl levels, and what expectations you have.

You could also have no sub, set sub to on, set crossover to small 60hz. You'll lose frequencies, as it's directed to non present sub but you won't damage your speaker floorstander speakers (because you ca easily damage small speakers when sub is set to none, with speakers set to large) can over drive your amp, and able to to have high speaker dB levels. It's not ideal but doable, until you add a sub.
 
hornetstinger said:
I depends. Size of the room, material you watch, what amp and speakers you have, expected spl levels, and what expectations you have.

You could also have no sub, set sub to on, set crossover to small 60hz. You'll lose frequencies, as it's directed to non present sub but you won't damage your speaker floorstander speakers (because you ca easily damage small speakers when sub is set to none, with speakers set to large) can over drive your amp, and able to to have high speaker dB levels. It's not ideal but doable, until you add a sub.
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FYI - I currently have Onkyo TX-NR646 Amp, with Mordaunt Short Avant Premiere speakers (sub 308, center 304, rear 302) and I've upgraded the from 302s to 902i's.
 
NeilFawcett said:
FYI - I currently have Onkyo TX-NR646 Amp, with Mordaunt Short Avant Premiere speakers (sub 308, center 304, rear 302) and I've upgraded the from 302s to 902i's.
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Having a avr doesn't help either as setting to full range strains your amp more. Whereas if I brought my amp round and connected to yours will help, 200w *7 or 300w * 7
 
hornetstinger said:
Having a avr doesn't help either as setting to full range strains your amp more. Whereas if I brought my amp round and connected to yours will help, 200w *7 or 300w * 7
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Basically we're going to be redecorating our ground floor, so looking at improving the speakers attached to my Onkyo amp. I'll have the choice of retaining my Mordaunt Shorts (putting the front 902i's either side of the TV say on a very wide TV unit, or on stands), or upgrading all the speakers - The center one I feel could do with a bit more ooommmph at times!
 
Not as expensive as you think. Also don't buy cheap and nasty floorstanders as they're inferior to higher quality standmounts.

I'd say aim at around £1000 for floorstanders or less for second hand.

My speakers were £700 second hand but original price £4500
 
hornetstinger said:
Not as expensive as you think. Also don't buy cheap and nasty floorstanders as they're inferior to higher quality standmounts.

I'd say aim at around £1000 for floorstanders or less for second hand.

My speakers were £700 second hand but original price £4500
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And buying 20yr old speakers didn't worry you? :/
 
I've bought several speakers second hand, all fine, saved thousands.

Bought center worth £700 for £100, sides worth £600 for £30, rears worth £900 for £125 mains worth £4500 for £700.

Pretty much all mint with very minor cosmetic damage, like 1mm tiny scratches
 
You can piece together really quite good hifi systems for incredibly cheap if you bargain hunt.

I got Wharfedale Diamond 9.2s for £80 from a cash exchange shop, an Arcam A75 for £20 from a charity shop, and a brand new Wharfedale Diamond SW150 on clearance sale for £90. Got it all years ago when I was still at school and was annoyed with how crap my Argos catalogue special Sony mini system was, haven't felt the need to upgrade at all since then.

I'll take it all with me when I move out, and will likely continue using it for many more years.
 
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