Noob questions: Alloys and ECU flash

BUDFORCE

BUDFORCE

BUDFORCE

Soldato
Joined
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So from my other thread my current car is kaput.

I am looking at cars and have eyed up a Volvo S60, T3 version which is a 1.6 turbo petrol 147bhp, although the car has more power than my old, it is also 300kg heavier, which baffles me as the car is the same shape and engine size, minus the turbo.

Anyway, the stock Volvo alloys are UUUUGLY, but, I'm kinda embarrassed to admit, but I'd have absolutely no idea where to start in getting replacements? How do you know if they will fit? What are the options, low profile etc?

Second part, the T4 version I believe is the same engine (the car actually uses a ford 1.6 ecoboost turbo) but is boosted to 180hp. So is that just an ECU setup, or will the turbo be different? And either way, would doing an ECU flash be possible, worth it? Outweigh risks? And again, how to you go about getting this done?
 
Yea I'm not looking to max anything out, but if it is like computer hardware "a mild overclock" is just free performance right? I'll check that out, 30hp extra would be plenty.
 
Armageus said:
With regards to wheels, the alternative is to fit a different style of genuine Volvo wheels - technically they should still be declared, but realistically how many people have ever checked that the genuine wheels they have on their second hand car are actually the style the car came with?
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You can't see it affecting the insurance much anyway surely? We'll the ECU flash might, but alloys, really?

Fortunately I live in like an A* postcode for insurance, so my insurance is dirt cheap anyway.

Edit: thinking about it, I will get the alloys, but I'll hold on the ECU until any dealer warranty I get has expired, or least drive the car for a few months first. Probably not a good idea to get that done straight away just in case there is something else wrong, I'm guessing they could use that as an excuse to void any comeback.
 
Yeyeye I will let them know :)

I have a non standard exhaust on my motorcycle and when I called them about that they didn't care lol, well see. I don't even have the car yet so, but if I get it I will treat myself to some better looking wheels, black ideally Matt black, lower profile tyres but nothing too "blingey"
 
Psycho Sonny said:
well if you stick third party alloys on it. it is a modification. if you don't declare them you don't have valid insurance.

it doesn't sound like you have a clue tbh
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Huh, what part did I ever say or even suggest I am not going to inform my insurer?

I don't know how much it'll affect my premium no, so in a way yes I don't have a clue, but considering I don't pay much anyway I am not concerned at all.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
"You can't see it affecting the insurance much anyway surely? We'll the ECU flash might, but alloys, really?"

Direct Quote

Alloys will effect insurance especially if they aren't OEM. As it's only done by boy racers, etc who like to drive like door handles or another word for them. Therefore putting you in a higher risk category.

An ECU remap / flash will also void any warranty and will for sure put you in a much higher bracket again for insurance as more power = more risk. Especially if it's in a boy racer type car.
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Yeye, no doubt about the ECU flash, I'll of course check both first, but I mean even a 10-20% jump for the alloys ain't gonna be a problem. But I'll report back as and when with how much.

Also good points about mechanical wear, although lots of that can be attributed to just driving your car harder (or not) anyway. Things like wear on brakes, clutch, fuel consumption I don't mind, I can sort all that stuff out myself. It would be nice to have the extra power there doesn't necessarily mean you will be using it all the time.

Wear on the engine, and turbo in particular I'd be more interested in, particularly direct affects of map rather than just generally driving hard, but I guess unless you have a pool of people with same car, same map all with 100k mileage or whatever, it's gonna be difficult to ever know.
 
Phemo said:
It all depends on what map you get put on there. As mentioned before it's best to get a map from a reputable tuner so you'll have to see what's good in your area.

I had my Mondeo 2.2 remapped from 197bhp to 235bhp which was ok for a day or so but then while sat at 70 on the motorway with cruise control on, I got an engine malfunction warning and an error code that I now can't remember. It turned out to simply be a split turbo hose which I swapped out and it was (sort of) ok for my ownership after that. As the hose had clearly been split for a while it does suggest that even with the car not being thrashed or driven any differently that my turbo was being pushed more than it was at stock since I'd done a good 8k+ miles on the stock map without any problems at all.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that map was much cop in the first place. The extra power was definitely there but if I was sat on the motorway and I pushed the accelerator right down you'd feel quite a strong judder which suggests it would have trashed the clutch or more before too long if I kept that up :D I got it mapped back to stock before selling it and there was no more judder so the clutch wasn't on its way out. I'll definitely make sure I do proper research if I bother to get any cars remapped again. On the plus side, I did 12k miles with the remap on there (was more sympathetic with the accelerator pedal to stop the judder) and it's still going fine now with the stock map back on.
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Hmm that is interesting and clearly a direct affect of the map. I think best bet maybe to do some digging research as previous suggested on some volvo specific forums, see waht people have had sucess with. Thanks though.
 
interesting:

So doing a bit of digging online, it seems the Volvo standard wheels are 16" - 215/55/R16 92V Offset: ET50 PCD: 5x108

so the offset is 50, the PCD 5x108.

Apparently these will fit:

https://www.wheelbasealloys.com/alloy-wheels/wolfrace/lucca/gloss-black/18-inch/volvo/s60/2nd-gen

So they can range from 16" up to 19", and rather handy that website will package them with tyres, which gives you the tyre size, I am guessing to keep the entire wheel (plus tyre) the same size so it will still fit in the car and not hit the bodywork or fail an MOT for sticking out too much. That being said, the 18" or 19" inch uses a 235mm wide tyre (compared to the original 215mm wide) that that is an extra 2cm sticking out, I am guessing that will still be MOT legal.

Seems the larger you go, the more expensive the alloy, plus the lower the profile of the tyre the more expensive.
 
DereksDontRun said:
MOT requires the bodywork to be the outer part of the car. wider tyres (and wrong offset) can cause the edge of the tyres to sit outside the bodywork (even if it doesn't rub when driving) and thus be a MOT fail. Even if they're not outside the car, tyres that sit close to the bodywork can rub against the arches when the suspension flexes, so you might need to roll the arches to make more space...

The speedo works on the fitted wheel (alloy + tyre) diameter. Its a MOT fail if the speedo reads less than the real speed and more than 10% (i think) over. So, when changing alloy you need to pay attention to the profile (the 2nd number) to ensure the total wheel diameter is v similar, and certainly not much bigger, which could cause it to under-read.

Yup - bigger alloys cost more and require lower profile tyres, which also cost more. You also have heavier wheels which arguably reduce performance, and the lower the tyre profile the harsher the ride (less air in the tyres to act as compliance) and more risk of curbing the alloy (more exposed and closer to the curbs). But... the smaller the alloy, and bigger tyre profile, the more tyre flex and less handling and manoeuvrability.

Generally, car designers choose a good alloy/tyre for the car they've designed... Family car will have bigger profile to make the ride smother and a sports car will be less to get better handling at the expense of ride quality. The designers are paid good money and spend even more money on research and testing - so you have to accept there might be a reason why the car is fitted with a size of alloy v v different to what you think it should have.
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Thank you. I guess with the MOT you can just take off the alloys and put the EOM wheels back on, and bring the car back the next day if it's an issue.

Good point though, I was thinking larger alloys but yea, maybe not go too far over stock, maybe 1" more, I will check though to ensure the overall size remains as close as possible, I watched some YouTube and another point I found is that it can potentially mess your ABS/TC if the overall wheel size is different. Plus the gear ratios (as technically your wheel is your final gear) it's just generally a really bad idea.

The lower profile appeals, they look better and also I'll take handling over comfort to a point, but...i dont like the idea of a very low profile for the street, hit a bad pothole or something, not much cushion there, could ruin your day.

I must admit though, there is way more to this then I thought.
 
Going to see the car on Saturday, in all honestly provided I dont spot anything obviously wrong with it, I'll probably buy it.

So, I found these alloys:

https://www.wheelbasealloys.com/alloy-wheels/ats/emotion/black/17-inch/volvo/s60/2nd-gen

The fittings should match exactly, although the standard rim size is 7" wide, this is 7.5" wide, everything else matches exactly including the offset (the website says 32 - 55) the volvo is 50, so I guess they inlcude spacers?

The only thing I dont know is with regards to this :

sovietspybob said:
If you do get aftermarket alloys make sure you get some spigot rings for them, they adapt the centre bore of the alloy wheel to fit snugly on to the hub. Without them you put all the stress on the wheel bolts which aren't really designed to support the weight of the vehicle, they're there to hold the wheel tight on to the hub.
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How would you find that out? I definately do not want them putting the weight on the wheels bolts.

The tyre size will be almost identical after also, changes a 205/60/16 to a 215/50/17 - this throws the speedo out by like .5 mph at 70mph, I can definately live with that, in my experience car speedos arn't that accurate anyway. Other than that, yes they are half an inch (10mm at the tyre) wider, but I suspect I'll get away with that, I'll eyeball the clearance with the stock wheels, but 10mm your talking 5mm each side, pretty tiny amount.

Waht do you guys think?
 
Looking at the information on that website is does have a section regarding centrebore and spigot rings, I am relatively sure they supply them with the wheels (I will of course check before purchase) if so that is ideal.

Otherwise euro car parts sell them they are dirt cheap, the only thing is that you want to make sure you get the exact fit, as even a fraction of a mil out for something like that is not going to be good.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
well if you stick third party alloys on it. it is a modification. if you don't declare them you don't have valid insurance.

it doesn't sound like you have a clue tbh
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Spoke to Tesco car insurance, they said they don't care about the alloys, just call them so they can note on the thet system, but it doesn't affect the cost/policy at all.
 
Bug One said:
Wouldn't it be cheaper and less hassle just to buy a T4 in the first place?
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Lol yea, probably. Too late now, pick the car up on Friday.

I was somewhat underwhelmed by the power considering it's nearly 50hp on top of my old car, that 300kg really makes the difference.

I do think I got a good deal though considering the car only has 15k on it, I just hope it ain't a lemon.
 
Haha, funny you should say that.

Right, after even more digging and trying to find out about brands, I did manage to find some postive right ups about "Ronal" alloys, apparently they are made of good harwearing metal, one website even put them up with OZ and BBS. Unless anyone knows to the contrary?

I found a rim I like, this one:

https://www.rimstyle.com/alloywheels/detail/?car_model_id=1460&year=2013&s=BWtoxaVE

Simple, 5 spoke, satin black, perfect. This website also provides the fitting kit, spigot rings etc

Now, there are 2 options to consider, either the 17" or 18" wheel, the difference in tyre 235/45/17 or 235/40/18 - when checking on a tyre size calculator there is basically no difference in total wheel size. Even the width is damn similar as on the 17" the sides narrow down in to the wheel.

The standard tyre size on the Volvo factory fitted 16" wheels is either 205/60/16 (currently fitted) or 215/55/16, the car came fitted with new tyres, and I suspect evans halshaw put the former size on because they are cheaper. Again, difference between the currently fitted tyre and the two above (17" or 18" options) are basically nil other than obviously width and side profile.

So.........

My heart says go for the 18", my head says 17".

I wish I could test drive them both and see what the difference feels like in real terms.

Decisions..........
 
It's funny cus the sidewall figure on a tyre is actually a percentage of the width.

So the Mrs Fiesta actually has pretty low profile tyres on the stock rims, her tyres are 195/50/15, but, the physical sidewall amount measured is almost bang on 3"

Where as the physical sidewall amount of the 18" proposed Volvo wheels would be 3.7" or 4.2" on the 17"s. So although the side profile is lower as a percentage because the wheel is bigger the physical amount doesn't reduce in scale with that sidewall figure.

Man I'm learning so much.

I've posted on the Volvo forum also to see if anyone has run an 18" specifically on an S60.

I'm not gonna lie the larger wheel appeals but.. not if you get to the point of detriment to your suspension and risking damage to your rims.
 
Can I ask a stupid question?

(on top of the multiple questions already lol)

The current tyres on my volvo are definately 205/60/16

However when I get a tape measure and physically measure the rim diameter (at least what visually appears to be edge to edge from the side, where the metal turns to tyre), it is exactly 17", is that normal?
 
I'm not going to go mental honest.

The stock wheels on the car are these ugly silver 7 spoke things, so they have to go. Plus Evans halshaw put Nexen tyres on and they are not great, so I'll kill two stones with one bird, likely go continental premium contact 6 or one of the Michelin pilot sports, haven't decided yet.

I'm getting a little boot lip spoiler which is in the post but wasn't expensive at all. I can tape that on so easy peasy.

I'm putting reverse parking sensors in (doing that Saturday) just basic audio alert ones, wire them up to the reverse light.

The remap.... I'm not even 100% sure I'll do it, I probably..will...but...

And that's it, promise!
 
IMG-20190702-090707.jpg


Not the greatest photo sorry was in a rush this mornign, but to give you an idea.

Parking sensors are in an working. Bootlip spoiler and wheels done. Not that you can really see in that photo, but I put little chrome exhaust tips on, they are subtle but a nice and very cheap touch I think.

Wheels, in the end went for 17" over stock 16". A lot of me wishes I'd been a bit braver and gone 18", the ride is completely fine on the 17's, I notice some slight tramlining and notice the small bumps a bit more, but really it's nothing. I went for Michelin pilto sport 3's and they are very good, best car tyre I have had to date.

Cosmetically I am done now. Next remap......

I am still not 100% on this but been doing some digging, apparently Polestar are the go to for Volvo owners, although not cheap. Other than the one recommend one this thread (superchips on page one will do 180bhp from 150), someone else recommended Celtic Tuning which will do a stage one up to 209bhp which seems a pretty huge jump, but if anything that is putting me off those guys being such a large increase, although they claim its fine on stock components.

I am still doing my homework on this though. Although I'll take any recommendations on board.
 
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