Notice of change of hours at work

"andy" said:
we have to be given 28 days for change of rota but they rarely dare do it because everyone exploits the childcare and family friendly policies to get out of it just to be awkward :p
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Had a massive row with my boss as while my contract gives a fair degree of flexibility in terms of changing hours we are expected to get atleast 1 week notice for rota changes inline with our availability agreement and 4 weeks notice for hours outside of the agreement and they tried to make a change outside of the agreement with less than a week notice :S problem is ultimately its a lose lose situation if you go too far down the legal side of that route (sure you might technically win but you end up with no job and max about 7K payout). Fortunately HR sided with me.
 
So am I ignoring or responding to this text message? :) I need to do something about it today or forget about it and go in 'happy' on Monday.
 
Well either way you're going to be working your normal hours on Monday as you can't get childcare so it depends if you want to end up in a slanging match over text while you're on holiday or not.
 
Rang ACAS and the lady said

  • They Shouldn't contact me whilst on holiday for work matters, and to that effect I do not have to reply to the message and shouldn't. To reply would be deeming this method of communication acceptable.
  • They cannot change my employment hours without agreement from me first.
  • Due to the school / after school clubs being closed it is unreasonable to expect me to have made alternate arrangements over the holiday even if I were accepting of these changes.
  • The end.

So I guess I have the answer. Don't respond.
 
good I was about to say Ring ACAS

:)

I would when back at work of course raise it all in an email your concerns about the method of contact the lack of consultation teh difficulties you face and how you would like to agree more suitable hours that benefit both parties (both financially and for your family) etc. Agree to nothing verbally do everything in writing to the point where every email you send about the issue and or future issues you CC yourself at a different email address (CC so they can see you do it not bcc). Ask for 24 hours notice before any consultations about it so that you can arrange for a suitable 3rd party to attend all meetings to make sure you are all on the same page.

Essentially the law is there to protect you but it's your job to know it and show them that you know it. Also I wouldn't mention this to any of your colleagues. Your contract is a discussion for you and your employer alone. If you do everything correctly you have all the evidence you need to support your case should the worse happen.

If you have a union rep perhaps speak to them if you don't, then consult with ACAS after every communication it's a ballache but it will protect you.
 
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TwsT said:
good I was about to say Ring ACAS

:)

I would when back at work of course raise it all in an email your concerns about the method of contact the lack of consultation teh difficulties you face and how you would like to agree more suitable hours that benefit both parties (both financially and for your family) etc. Agree to nothing verbally do everything in writing to the point where every email you send about the issue and or future issues you CC yourself at a different email address (CC so they can see you do it not bcc). Ask for 24 hours notice before any consultations about it so that you can arrange for a suitable 3rd party to attend all meetings to make sure you are all on the same page.

Essentially the law is there to protect you but it's your job to know it and show them that you know it. Also I wouldn't mention this to any of your colleagues. Your contract is a discussion for you and your employer alone. If you do everything correctly you have all the evidence you need to support your case should the worse happen.

If you have a union rep perhaps speak to them if you don't, then consult with ACAS after every communication it's a ballache but it will protect you.
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I'm dreading returning to work, in a non amusing way him saying hope you are enjoying your holiday but has ruined my holiday. I feel on edge now, stressed and anxious.

I suffer with anxiety anyway and up until this point the last month has been good! Since losing weight (34kg) I've been a lot more confident in myself, taking the children swimming which was a big deal as I wouldn't have dreamt of it before.

All I've done for two days is panic over the return to work and sure some of you may think man up you gigantic wuss but anxiety has ruled my life for the last few years and certainly most of it is work based. This will bring you to telling me get out - and I am well on my way to doing that now. What stopped you before? I hear you ask - fear of change, new things etc.

With regards to an email, I'll draft one out tonight and save it for sending when I get in to work on Monday, outlining the points you mention TwsT. I'm not sure I could arrange for someone to come in with me with 24 hours notice so hopefully I can extend that period of time?

I never mention anything to my colleagues, the assistant general manager tells his *friend* who works there everything anyway (he who sent the text) and it all gets out pretty quickly that way - so my situation will also be broadcast at a suitable pace.

Me being there benefits them massively financially, they save £50/hr in IT support everytime something breaks (which is regularly) and being honest I am not paid much more than the living wage anyway which I very much doubt will increase now the living wage exists.

If you've read all that dribble well done, and thank you.

Edit : Here's my previous errr work experience https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18677780&highlight=startername_-Mike-
 
First off just send an email.

Saying The message you recieved on holiday was not a suitable way to discuss a change in hours and that you would like to discuss this suggested change in person and state your reasons. They will probably consult HR or legal at this point (they might not but most companies will)

CC yourself in. (seriously can't stress how important it is to keep a record of this stuff)

IF they deny that then contact ACAS and ask where to go from there.

If they accept it have the meeting see if you can agree something. If you can job done if you're happy ask for a few hours to think it over and talk to your partner arrange care etc. In that time check it with ACAS if you like but if you're happy then agree and get on with it. You shouldn't need a mediator or a independent 3rd party for this part it should just be a simple discussion around what the company wants to do and what you can do.

If you can't agree contact ACAS again advise them that you've had a meeting about a change and that the company is unwilling to assist you etc.

Essentially just take it slow and try to resolve it amicably you've said you'll probably look for another job anyway but you're better off having this one if possible whilst you look.


If they do agree terms obviously don't discuss it with anyone. Your contract is your own it could create problems if others think you're getting special treatment when they just straight up thought they had no choice. (This happens a lot and sadly, it is seen as you agreeing if you turn up at the time etc.)

I believe that if you have tried everything and still have to accept the new hours then you can sign the contract but in protest. stating that you feel you have no choice but to agree to these terms but again I would be discussing every progression with ACAS.

Most importantly try not to let it get you down. I've only had to use a similar process once for a contract change and it went swimmingly the company was incredibly reasonable and it was more a miss-communication of intentions than anything else. But it didn't hurt to have the discussion get it all cleared up over 2 meetings.
 
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Thanks for your time in writing that massive reply TwsT! Are you saying I should send an email now/ tomorrow so they know I have no intention of compliance with that message next week in advance?

I'll be writing to the general manager, not the guy who sent me the message in the first place.

I am seeking alternate employment, have been for quite some time, the pay amongst other things really does grind me down. You are of course right, it's better to be working than not.

Thanks again.
 
Don't let them walk all over you, ever. You have to balance your home and work life, and for me that means being able to shut off outside of work hours.

I make a point of not being contacted when on holiday unless it's urgent (it really should never be the case that it can't wait!). If I had a message like yours I would not reply to it, or even acknowledge receipt of it.
 
-Mike- said:
Thanks for your time in writing that massive reply TwsT! Are you saying I should send an email now/ tomorrow so they know I have no intention of compliance with that message next week in advance?

I'll be writing to the general manager, not the guy who sent me the message in the first place.

I am seeking alternate employment, have been for quite some time, the pay amongst other things really does grind me down. You are of course right, it's better to be working than not.

Thanks again.
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Send it when you're in work like the lady at ACAS said if you reply before you are at work you are saying it's ok to be contacted like that.


I don't know how your business is structured. If the person who messaged you had the authority to send you a message like that it would be worth taking it to him first rather than going over his head.
 
Sounds like you need some time off for stress ;)

Personally, I'd take this as a kick up the **** to really start seriously looking for a new job, good luck, hopefully they'll be reasonable and it is just a breakdown in communication
 
Haggisman said:
Sounds like you need some time off for stress ;)

Personally, I'd take this as a kick up the **** to really start seriously looking for a new job, good luck, hopefully they'll be reasonable and it is just a breakdown in communication
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I could do with some time off for stress, try getting a doctors appointment down here though! It doesn't happen unless you're on the brink of non existence! Would never get one in time now!

Hows this for a letter for her on Monday / Email

Dear Jim,

I am writing to express my disappointment and unhappiness regarding a text message and whatsapp message I received on Wednesday whilst on annual leave regarding a change of hours at work from the 11th April.
Firstly this is not enough notice for a change of hours and one that shouldn't have been made without discussion as to the reasons why the hours are being changed or how they may affect me and my home family life. As you're aware I have children to think about and am stretched with what I do now.

I did not respond to this message on the advice of ACAS who after stressing over the message all day I decided to call to ask whether I had no choice in this matter. They have advised me that a discussion should have been made regarding changing working hours, where I should have had the opportunity to discuss my concerns and reasons for not being able to comply with these changes.

I'm sure you can appreciate with [insert name] work taking place through the night that I need to be home in time to make the children their dinner and get them to bed. The proposed extension of work hours removes my ability to ensure that they are getting their dinner at the correct time and are going to bed having had sufficient time for their stomachs to settle.

Currently I manage to get home by 5:00pm/5:10 pm, after having a wash and getting changed this is nearer to 5:20/5:30. The proposed extension of hours without notice pushes me to 6pm before I'm ready to do anything and this is far too late to be preparing a meal or serving it up as well as all the other duties I must do before they go to bed.
 
Haggisman said:
Doesn't really make much difference:

"Sorry, I need to pick up my child at X, so I will be leaving at my normal time of Y. Please can we schedule a meeting to discuss the viability of (and my remuneration for) these potential changes, as this is the first I've heard about them"
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"Hi I received your message about the propsoed change in the working hours. I think they are crap and to let you know this and to further visualise it so you understand i took a big steaming dump in your top drawer. I also ate a nice vindaloo before hand to ensure that you would receive a most bountiful aroma when you open the drawer. Please note I wiped my ass on paperwork there to let you know I mean business"

works every time
 
-Mike- said:
I could do with some time off for stress, try getting a doctors appointment down here though! It doesn't happen unless you're on the brink of non existence! Would never get one in time now!

Hows this for a letter for her on Monday / Email

Dear Jim,

I am writing to express my disappointment and unhappiness regarding a text message and whatsapp message I received on Wednesday whilst on annual leave regarding a change of hours at work from the 11th April.
Firstly this is not enough notice for a change of hours and one that shouldn't have been made without discussion as to the reasons why the hours are being changed or how they may affect me and my home family life. As you're aware I have children to think about and am stretched with what I do now.

I did not respond to this message on the advice of ACAS who after stressing over the message all day I decided to call to ask whether I had no choice in this matter. They have advised me that a discussion should have been made regarding changing working hours, where I should have had the opportunity to discuss my concerns and reasons for not being able to comply with these changes.

I'm sure you can appreciate with [insert name] work taking place through the night that I need to be home in time to make the children their dinner and get them to bed. The proposed extension of work hours removes my ability to ensure that they are getting their dinner at the correct time and are going to bed having had sufficient time for their stomachs to settle.

Currently I manage to get home by 5:00pm/5:10 pm, after having a wash and getting changed this is nearer to 5:20/5:30. The proposed extension of hours without notice pushes me to 6pm before I'm ready to do anything and this is far too late to be preparing a meal or serving it up as well as all the other duties I must do before they go to bed.
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I think you're possibly going into too much detail here, they aren't going to give a crap what you do, they sound like they don't care.

I'd write it like this personally, you need to make it clear that you are not to be contacted like this again as well. If you don't care about your job word it even stronger than I have :P

Dear Jim,

I am writing to express my severe disappointment and unhappiness regarding a whatsapp and text message which I received on Wednesday the [insert date here] whilst on annual leave, regarding a change of hours at work from the 11th April.

This did not need to be sent to me whilst I was out of the office, this could have waited until I returned as it was only short term leave I was taking. I expect to never receive such contact again unless the situation is extremely urgent.

This is not enough notice for a change of hours, and one that shouldn't have been made without prior consultation with me.

I am seeking 3rd party advice on this matter as this relates directly to my work/life balance, I appreciate that there are commitments at [insert company you work for here] and I will always do my best to accomodate these where I can, but I am also a family man and have to strike a reasonable balance with that as I'm sure you can understand.
 
I think hungry hippos has a point

the initial email can be short on finer detail as long as it is succinct.

Let them read it and reply. If the reply is positive, see where it goes. If it is negative go back to ACAS and ask advice on the next step.
 
I'll be needing to tell them I'm not staying later Monday first! Will just go straight to the manager and say I want a chat. I'm going to bypass he who sent the text, I find him threatening and occasionally abusive and insulting. I normally avoid conversation with this person for those reasons.

Will send email when I get on site and have a paper copy to give to the manager.

They need to know though that I have no intention of accepting these changes in the immediate future, and I hope that given I've had no notice and no consultation I can just refuse to abide by them until the proper notice is given.
 
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Agreed. Don't mention ACAS, don't mention your family timing requirements. Stick to making points that assert your rights and don't stray from that.

If you have a meeting request any proposal made by the company in writing before you agree to anything.
 
-Mike- said:
I'll be needing to tell them I'm not staying later Monday first! Will just go straight to the manager and say I want a chat. I'm going to bypass he who sent the text, I find him threatening and occasionally abusive and insulting. I normally avoid conversation with this person for those reasons.

Will send email when I get on site and have a paper copy to give to the manager.

They need to know though that I have no intention of accepting these changes in the immediate future, and I hope that given I've had no notice and no consultation I can just refuse to abide by them until the proper notice is given.
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Just rock up Monday at your normal start time, and try to leave at your normal end time as well. Don't let them take advantage of you, give an inch they'll take a mile.

Remember you work to live, not live to work - look after number 1. If you really don't enjoy the job anyway start looking for something else. Try not to go off with stress here if you can avoid it.
 
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