Now try and get out of it....

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Read this on an ADI site I read,

"Speeding Drivers With Loophole Lawyers To Face Police Challenge

Drivers who challenge speed camera fines will face a new team of expert witnesses dedicated to the task of rebutting spurious arguments put forward by so-called loophole lawyers.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) has created the team, called Road Safety Support, to help forces struggling to cope with the rising number of drivers contesting tickets by citing legal technicalities. Thousands of drivers have had tickets cancelled after arguing that police failed to comply with certain aspects of the law when enforcing speed limits.

Many have claimed that cameras have not been properly calibrated to record speed accurately. Others have argued that speed limit signs have been obscured or that mobile cameras have given false readings.

Police often fail to contest such cases and cancel the ticket, either because they lack the resources to prove in court that the claims are false or because they do not want to risk losing the case and establishing a precedent.

Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire and Acpo’s head of roads policing, said: “We are going to demonstrate that spurious cases get a slap. This team will defend the integrity of enforcement equipment and help us win high-profile cases.

“We are saying to drivers who think they can try it on, ‘Come and get us if you think you are hard enough’. We have won every case we have supported.”

Mr Hughes said that the team, which includes Crown Prosecution Service solicitors on secondment, had scored its first major victory in a case in Hull in January.

Darren Fernie, a businessman from Lincoln, had contested a speeding ticket on the ground that a policeman had failed to operate a mobile camera properly.

But the court accepted evidence from one of Acpo’s expert witnesses and Mr Fernie had to pay £9,400 in prosecution costs and a £200 fine. He was given three penalty points.

Mr Hughes said: “I respect competent lawyers who go through the evidence on behalf of their client. My job is to make sure the prosecution case is as robust as the defence.”

He criticised anticamera groups such as Safe Speed and the Association of British Drivers, which encourage drivers to challenge speeding tickets.

“What these groups have done is encourage people to believe that there is something inherently wrong with enforcing the law.”

Paul Smith, founder of Safe Speed, said that Acpo’s team would increase the pressure on drivers to accept penalties.

“The speed enforcement system relies on bluff and bluster and threatening drivers with the risk of having to pay prosecution costs is part of the bluff.”Source : Times Online"

Quality :D Quite like the idea of the wingers paying thee near £10k costs :D

Also like the "Come and get us if your hard enough" bit, anyone fancy there chances...?
 
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I would love to contest speeding tickets, as I doubt they have the proper calibration tests 90% of the time, But you cant get the calibration certificates unless you go to court and plead guilty. Surly this is against the law as this is vital evidence..
 
So much effort being put in to stop speeding.

It's not like the money is needed elsewhere in the country is it? :rolleyes:
 
dicks tbh

how are they going to argue when lasers havent actually been calibrated correctly or when the lines in the roads werent actually spaced correctly?

in those cases how on earth can there be any room for discussion let alone defense?

I would imagine they will only actually take up cases where they have already confirmed the equipment isnt innacurate - so by definition they will only actually be challenging those people who decide to chance their arms

load of hot air, much like the bully boy responses they currently favour in response to the PACE reply.

I would be so happy if the O'Halloran & Francis v UK case was filed in favour of the former, that would open up such a huge get out clause for anyone with an ounce of savvy, roll on the ECtHR :D
 
Such nazis about speeding, yet violent muggings, carjackings etc (which are at 200% of the national average in this suburb) go completely ignored.
 
Why the hell do they make such a fuss about god damn speeding when people are out there getting stabbed, raped and murdered on a daily basis?
 
Tommy B said:
Why the hell do they make such a fuss about god damn speeding when people are out there getting stabbed, raped and murdered on a daily basis?

those crimes dont generate any revenue and involve paperwork and an ounce of hard work ;)
 
Tommy B said:
Why the hell do they make such a fuss about god damn speeding when people are out there getting stabbed, raped and murdered on a daily basis?

Well those crimes get invesetigated as well. Maybe the fact that on average a road traffic accident resulting in a death costs around £1.4 milion and like it or not, speed IS a factor in the outcome of the accident and it's also a crime.

Just because you dont agree with the law does not mean you can disregard it when its not to your convenience. for the record I dont have a problem with speed per se, it's the idiots who use speed irresponsibly that cause all the problems.
 
Tdh1987 said:
Thanks bonkers. :confused:

It's also not true, my dad was provided with a calibration certificate when he asked for one before he decided to accept the fine or not.
 
andi said:
It's also not true, my dad was provided with a calibration certificate when he asked for one before he decided to accept the fine or not.

It's very much true, it is even worded into the speeding ticket.
 
Dashik said:
Well those crimes get invesetigated as well. Maybe the fact that on average a road traffic accident resulting in a death costs around £1.4 milion and like it or not, speed IS a factor in the outcome of the accident and it's also a crime.

Just because you dont agree with the law does not mean you can disregard it when its not to your convenience. for the record I dont have a problem with speed per se, it's the idiots who use speed irresponsibly that cause all the problems.

Neither do I, but only in residential and unsafe areas, I despise the motorway speed rules in this country, and I think the usage of speed cameras on motorways should be banned.
 
I think Paul Smith sums it up very well (as always)

Paul Smith, founder of SafeSpeed.org.uk, said: "This action by ACPO is a dirty trick - they are attempting to put access to justice beyond the pocket of ordinary drivers. They are effectively saying - 'you are guilty because we never make mistakes'. But the newspapers are full of Police mistakes, and, to make matters worse, one of the key pieces of police prosecution equipment is downright dodgy. So dodgy, that it has been christened the 'dodgyscope' by Internet users."

“The ACPO is merely upping their bluff. The biggest bluff of all is that the resources do not exist to prosecute every speeding case. If drivers stopped accepting fixed penalties the system would collapse in weeks. This is the real reason for the ever increasing 'bluff and bluster' tactics - they need to force us into paying fixed penalties because neither the courts nor the CPS can possibly cope with much of an increase in cases.”

"What is wrong, Mr Hughes is the overzealous application of a law that simply isn't up to the job. You are damaging confidence in the justice system, the Police / public relationship and road safety itself. You can't even comply with the speed limit yourself, because you recently had 6 driving licence points for speeding."

"We encourage drivers to investigate the case against them. I would go as far as to say that MOST speeding cases are DEFECTIVE on the prosecution side. If you dig deep enough a fatal defect is quite likely to emerge. If you know you were not speeding according to law, or you do not know who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence then you are likely to have a winnable case."

"The whole thing has become a petty war of technicalities with ACPO and the Police throwing ever increasing resources against an increasingly untrusting public. In this ridiculous war road safety has been forgotten. Mr Hughes may well claim that the law is on his side but however much he may bleat about the law the fact is that millions upon millions of speeding prosecutions are not saving lives on the road. It isn't 'the law' that matters most here, Mr Hughes, it's the number of roads fatalities. You should know better."

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=16292

Address the fact that the law doesn't do what it's supposed to (save lives) and address the fact that the public has no confidence in the law because they know it doesn't work, and we might actually get somewhere.

Statistically speeding is one of the lowest causes of accidents, so why spend all the time trying to address it? How about actually trying to save lives by targetting the things that actually cause them to be lost in the first place?

Making enforcement of a bad law harsher doesn't change the fact it's a really bad law.
 
Dolph said:
I think Paul Smith sums it up very well (as always)



http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=16292

Address the fact that the law doesn't do what it's supposed to (save lives) and address the fact that the public has no confidence in the law because they know it doesn't work, and we might actually get somewhere.

Statistically speeding is one of the lowest causes of accidents, so why spend all the time trying to address it? How about actually trying to save lives by targetting the things that actually cause them to be lost in the first place?

Making enforcement of a bad law harsher doesn't change the fact it's a really bad law.

great post
 
Dolph said:
They are effectively saying - 'you are guilty because we never make mistakes'. But the newspapers are full of Police mistakes, and, to make matters worse, one of the key pieces of police prosecution equipment is downright dodgy. So dodgy, that it has been christened the 'dodgyscope' by Internet users."

whats the piece of equipment he was referring to ? is it the hand held laser detectors they use ?

as i was caught doing 107 on the motorway in the small hours with one of these, was given a tiny piece of white paper that said "notice of intended prosecution, blah blah, then at the bottom, this does not signify that proceedings will follow ."

Nearly 4 months on and i havent heard anything from it. At the time i wondered how he managed to get a reading through all those lamp posts (i was caught on a tight bend of a centrally lit motorway) so im guessing they decided they could never make it stick ?
 
MrLOL said:
whats the piece of equipment he was referring to ? is it the hand held laser detectors they use ?

as i was caught doing 107 on the motorway in the small hours with one of these, was given a tiny piece of white paper that said "notice of intended prosecution, blah blah, then at the bottom, this does not signify that proceedings will follow ."

Nearly 4 months on and i havent heard anything from it. At the time i wondered how he managed to get a reading through all those lamp posts (i was caught on a tight bend of a centrally lit motorway) so im guessing they decided they could never make it stick ?

as its 100+ and possible ban/court visit they have 6 months to make a case against you matey :(
 
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