Nurburgring - German Grand Prix 2009 - Race 9/17

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Please keep all discussion about 2010 rules, drivers, teams, fota vs fia argument and anything else 2010 related in this thread ***Official F1 2010***


TV times:
GERMANY

Friday 10 July
First practice: 0900-1030, BBC Red Button/online & BBC Radio 5 Live sports extra/online
Second practice: 1300-1430, BBC Red Button/online & BBC Radio 5 Live sports extra/online

Inside F1: 1830-1845, BBC News Channel, then repeated on the Red Button

Saturday 11 July
Third practice: 1000-1100, BBC Red Button/online & BBC Radio 5 Live sports extra/online

Qualifying: 1210-1415, BBC One/BBC Red Button/Radio 5 Live/online
Qualifying re-run: Times TBC, BBC Red Button

Sunday 12 July
Race: 1210-1500, BBC One/BBC Red Button/Radio 5 Live/online
Race re-run: Times TBC, BBC Red Button

Interactive Forum: 1500-1600, BBC Red Button/online

Highlights: 1900-2000, BBC Three/BBC Red Button/online

Standings:
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Track:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/mot...uide/default.stm?circuitID=09&moduleID=m3#top

Track Diagram
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Circuit information
Race Date: 12 Jul 2009
Number of Laps: 60
Circuit Length: 5.148 km
Race Distance: 308.863 km
Lap Record: 1:29.468 - M. Schumacher (2004)

2009 tyre compounds: medium (prime, no marking), super-soft (option, green markings)
2007 tyre compounds: medium (prime, no marking), soft (option, white markings)

Weather Forecast
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Nurburgring - a Formula One set-up guide
The Nurburgring has a reputation for being a 'complete' circuit in the sense that it includes a wide variety of corners. There are high-speed sections, medium-speed chicanes, and some very slow corners with high traction demands. The cars will have to meet all of these challenges this weekend. Overtaking is difficult but possible into the first corner and the chicane at Turns 13 and 14. However, the weather is a constant concern and no matter what the season, rain and cool conditions are an ever-present threat in the Eifel mountains. Renault explain how they plan to tweak their R29 for the German Grand Prix…

Aerodynamics
The Nurburgring demands some of the highest downforce levels of the season, not only for the numerous high and medium-speed corners, but also to maintain good stability under heavy braking for the first corner and the slow chicane of Turns 13 and 14.

As Renault driver Fernando Alonso explains: "The left-right chicane of Turns 13 and 14 is probably the best overtaking opportunity as it's one of the biggest braking zones of the lap. If you are following another car closely, you can pick up a good slipstream on the approach and make a lunge down the inside. We take it at about 100 km/h in second gear and you need to be aggressive with the curbs to straight-line the chicane as much as possible and carry speed through the corner."

Chassis balance
Corners such as Turns Five/Six, Eight/Nine and 10/11 in particular demand a neutral handling balance to avoid compromising the optimum line through the second corner in the sequence, and the engineers will often work through the weekend to dial out understeer in the medium-speed corners.

A quick, responsive change of direction is required in both the slow-speed section at the start of the lap, and through the quicker corners. Mechanical grip is particularly important through Turns One to Four, but cannot be achieved at the expense of aerodynamic performance around the rest of the lap.

Alonso explains: "The run through Turns One to Four is not very exciting for the drivers, but we spend a lot of time in them and that means that any mistake is likely to be very costly, especially in qualifying. We need to be precise with our braking and keep the car under control all the time as too much understeer, oversteer or a missed apex will put you out of shape for the following corners. The car balance is never perfect at such low speeds either, so we are always fighting understeer in the very slow corners, and a nervous rear end when we accelerate away."

Tyres
Tyre performance will, as always, be a critical performance parameter for all teams this weekend with Bridgestone providing the super-soft and medium compounds from its 2009 range. Ambient conditions will play a role in determining which compound is the preferred tyre for the race as we often experience cool temperatures at the Nurburgring.

Brakes
Wear on the brakes is not a major concern. None of the braking zones are particularly severe and there is no reason to think that wear levels on the discs and pads should be abnormally high as a result.

Engine
The Nurburgring is not a circuit that presents the engines with any extreme challenges, and its overall impact is further reduced by the fact that the circuit is situated at altitude, some 500m above sea level. This has the effect of reducing engine power by approximately five percent, while also reducing loads on certain engine components such as the pistons.

The engine is at full throttle for just over 64 percent of the lap - a value slightly above the season average of approximately 62 percent. The longest single period at full throttle barely exceeds ten seconds, so the main challenge for the engine team is ensuring strong performance from low revs so the engine launches well out of the slow corners, particularly Turn Seven which leads onto the uphill drag to Turn 10.

As Nelson Piquet explains: "We approach Turn Seven downhill in seventh gear at almost 300km/h before braking and downshifting to third for the hairpin. It's really important to stay online and hit the apex through this corner so that you can apply the throttle early on the exit to carry as much speed on the long drag back up the hill towards the high-speed chicane of Turns Eight and Nine."

The circuit includes a number of elevation changes, but none are sudden enough to cause the engine systems any concern. The only note of caution is finding the best line through some of the bumpier corners, and particularly the chicane, to avoid spending too much time on the rev limiter, which is potentially damaging for the engine.

Classic Nurburgring Grand Prix
Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1961
Watch highlights from the 1961 German Grand Prix as Stirling Moss wins for Lotus ahead of the Ferraris of Wolfgang von Trips and Phil Hill.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1982 extended highlights
Watch the BBC's "Grand Prix" programme from the 1982 German Grand Prix as Patrick Tambay wins his first F1 race after Eliseo Salazar collides with a furious Nelson Piquet.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1991
Watch highlights from the 1991 German Grand Prix as Nigel Mansell wins for Williams while Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost do battle again.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 2000
Watch highlights from the 2000 German Grand Prix as Ferrari's Rubens Barrichello wins his first ever F1 race after starting from 18th place on the grid.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 2008
Watch highlights from the 2008 German Grand Prix as Lewis Hamilton fights back to win after McLaren gamble by deciding not to pit him during a safety car period.

Technical Changes - Great Britain
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Nurburgring Team Previews


News


  • Brawn ready to hit back in Germany
    Ross Brawn is confident aerodynamic updates and a car that should suit the characteristics of the Nurburgring mean his championship-leading team responds strongly to Red Bull’s Silverstone dominance next weekend.
  • Bridgestone to close tyre compound gap
    Bridgestone has decided to close the gap between the tyre compounds it will bring to the four races from the Hungarian Grand Prix later this month.
  • Mallya confident team on brink of points
    Force India team principal Vijay Mallya believes his squad is now very close to scoring its first points finish following recent improvements, the Indian hopeful it can finally break its duck at the Nurburgring.
  • Renault: Tough to repeat '08 turnaround
    Pat Symonds concedes Renault is going to find it more difficult to repeat its 2008 turnaround in form this year given the competitiveness of Formula 1’s midfield – but says that will not stop the team trying to end the season with the third-fastest car again.
  • Trulli eyes return to Nurburgring podium
    Jarno Trulli is aiming to get Toyota back in the fight for the podium positions at the Nurburgring this weekend, 10 years after he claimed his first top-three Formula 1 finish at the German venue.
  • McLaren still pushing hard, says Lewis
    Lewis Hamilton has stressed that McLaren is still determined to make improvements to its MP4-24 before the end of the year, even though the team isn’t set to debut any major upgrades at engine partner Mercedes’ home race.
  • Theissen: BMW's recovery starts now
    Mario Theissen is optimistic BMW can start to improve its fortunes from its home German Grand Prix next weekend thanks to the introduction of further development parts, including a revised double-decker diffuser.
  • Alguersuari replaces Hartley as Red Bull reserve
    Red Bull have announced that Spanish teenager Jaime Alguersuari will serve as their reserve driver from next weekend’s German Grand Prix. Alguersuari, who became the youngest-ever British Formula Three champion last year, replaces fellow Red Bull junior driver Brendon Hartley, who has held the post since May’s Spanish race.
  • LG planning F1 HD TV advert?
    An interview with LG’s vice president of corporate sponsorships Andrew Barrett has been circulated by the Motor Sport Business Forum.
  • Ecclestone issues an apology
    In the face of mounting anger over comments he made at the weekend, Bernie Ecclestone has issued an apology, claiming that his comments have been misunderstood.
  • Raikkonen rules out a Ferrari win in Germany
    With just 26 points and one podium after eight races, Ferrari have endured a difficult first half of the season and are 65 points shy of where they were this time last year. For driver Kimi Raikkonen the time has come to admit a win will be highly unlikely at this weekend's German Grand Prix and a podium finish will be his real target.


The track and TV coverage starts


Technical changes Nurburgring
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Inside F1 - Nurburgring Prix preview

Practice 1
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Replay - German GP practice 1
Watch a full replay of the first practice session for the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring (UK users only).

Webber fastest in German practice
Red Bull's Mark Webber clocked the quickest lap time of the first practice session for the German Grand Prix at a cold Nurburgring on Friday morning.

Highlights - Webber sets pace in Germany
Red Bull's Mark Webber sets the fastest lap in the first practice session for the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring, with Brawn GP's Jenson Button second and Ferrari's Felipe Massa third.

Practice 2
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Replay - German GP practice 2
Watch a full replay of the second practice session for the German Grand Prix at the Nurburging.

Highlights - Hamilton tops German GP practice
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton sets the fastest time in the second practice session for Sunday's German Grand Prix, ahead of Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel and Brawn GP's Jenson Button.

Practice 3
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Qaulifying
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Highlights - Webber claims German pole
Red Bull's Mark Webber earns the first pole position of his career at the Nurburgring, ahead of Brawn GP duo Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button.

Webber charges to first F1 pole
Red Bull's Mark Webber qualified on pole for the first time after a rain-affected qualifying session for the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring.

Drivers' news conference in full
Mark Webber praises his Red Bull team after he secures his first-ever pole position ahead of Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button for the German Grand Prix.
Fuel Loads
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Race
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Highlights - Hamilton suffers puncture after start
Lewis Hamilton flies off the starting grid and threatens to take the lead at the German Grand Prix - but can't stay on the track at the first corner and suffers a puncture.

Webber battles to maiden F1 win
Red Bull's Mark Webber scored his maiden Formula 1 win with a brilliant performance at the German Grand Prix after a drive-through penalty.

German GP drivers news conference
Mark Webber is delighted after winning his first Grand Prix victory, leading home Red Bull team-mate Sebastien Vettel and Ferrari's Felipe Massa.

Upset Barrichello lashes out at Brawn team
Rubens Barrichello is upset with his Brawn GP team after a problem with one of his pit stops costs him the chance of victory in the German Grand Prix.

German GP drivers news conference
Mark Webber is delighted after winning his first Grand Prix victory, leading home Red Bull team-mate Sebastien Vettel and Ferrari's Felipe Massa.

Button admits to Germany frustration
World championship leader Jenson Button says the team must improve in Hungary after finishing well behind their Red Bull rivals at the Nurburgring.

Standings
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Last edited:
Man of Honour
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Joined
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Posts
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Updates:
Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1961
Watch highlights from the 1961 German Grand Prix as Stirling Moss wins for Lotus ahead of the Ferraris of Wolfgang von Trips and Phil Hill.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1982 extended highlights
Watch the BBC's "Grand Prix" programme from the 1982 German Grand Prix as Patrick Tambay wins his first F1 race after Eliseo Salazar collides with a furious Nelson Piquet.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 1991
Watch highlights from the 1991 German Grand Prix as Nigel Mansell wins for Williams while Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost do battle again.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 2000
Watch highlights from the 2000 German Grand Prix as Ferrari's Rubens Barrichello wins his first ever F1 race after starting from 18th place on the grid.

Classic F1 - German Grand Prix 2008
Watch highlights from the 2008 German Grand Prix as Lewis Hamilton fights back to win after McLaren gamble by deciding not to pit him during a safety car period.

News
Ecclestone issues an apology
In the face of mounting anger over comments he made at the weekend, Bernie Ecclestone has issued an apology, claiming that his comments have been misunderstood.

Raikkonen rules out a Ferrari win in Germany
With just 26 points and one podium after eight races, Ferrari have endured a difficult first half of the season and are 65 points shy of where they were this time last year. For driver Kimi Raikkonen the time has come to admit a win will be highly unlikely at this weekend's German Grand Prix and a podium finish will be his real target.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
11 Mar 2004
Posts
76,634
The story so far - BMW Sauber's mid-season report
BMW Sauber’s fall from grace this season has been well documented. Having finished ‘best of the rest’ behind Ferrari and McLaren in 2008, the German-Swiss team were hoping to take another step forward in ’09 and fight for the title.

The story so far - Brawn GP's mid-season report
It’s a tale worthy of a Hollywood film script. Despite starting the year not knowing if they would even be around at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix, Brawn GP have been far and away 2009’s strongest team, outshining 2008’s trio of title contenders, Ferrari, McLaren and BMW Sauber.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
11 Mar 2004
Posts
76,634
The Nurburgring has a reputation for being a 'complete' circuit in the sense that it includes a wide variety of corners. There are high-speed sections, medium-speed chicanes, and some very slow corners with high traction demands. The cars will have to meet all of these challenges this weekend. Overtaking is difficult but possible into the first corner and the chicane at Turns 13 and 14. However, the weather is a constant concern and no matter what the season, rain and cool conditions are an ever-present threat in the Eifel mountains. Renault explain how they plan to tweak their R29 for the German Grand Prix…

Aerodynamics
The Nurburgring demands some of the highest downforce levels of the season, not only for the numerous high and medium-speed corners, but also to maintain good stability under heavy braking for the first corner and the slow chicane of Turns 13 and 14.

As Renault driver Fernando Alonso explains: "The left-right chicane of Turns 13 and 14 is probably the best overtaking opportunity as it's one of the biggest braking zones of the lap. If you are following another car closely, you can pick up a good slipstream on the approach and make a lunge down the inside. We take it at about 100 km/h in second gear and you need to be aggressive with the curbs to straight-line the chicane as much as possible and carry speed through the corner."

Chassis balance
Corners such as Turns Five/Six, Eight/Nine and 10/11 in particular demand a neutral handling balance to avoid compromising the optimum line through the second corner in the sequence, and the engineers will often work through the weekend to dial out understeer in the medium-speed corners.

A quick, responsive change of direction is required in both the slow-speed section at the start of the lap, and through the quicker corners. Mechanical grip is particularly important through Turns One to Four, but cannot be achieved at the expense of aerodynamic performance around the rest of the lap.

Alonso explains: "The run through Turns One to Four is not very exciting for the drivers, but we spend a lot of time in them and that means that any mistake is likely to be very costly, especially in qualifying. We need to be precise with our braking and keep the car under control all the time as too much understeer, oversteer or a missed apex will put you out of shape for the following corners. The car balance is never perfect at such low speeds either, so we are always fighting understeer in the very slow corners, and a nervous rear end when we accelerate away."

Tyres
Tyre performance will, as always, be a critical performance parameter for all teams this weekend with Bridgestone providing the super-soft and medium compounds from its 2009 range. Ambient conditions will play a role in determining which compound is the preferred tyre for the race as we often experience cool temperatures at the Nurburgring.

Brakes
Wear on the brakes is not a major concern. None of the braking zones are particularly severe and there is no reason to think that wear levels on the discs and pads should be abnormally high as a result.

Engine
The Nurburgring is not a circuit that presents the engines with any extreme challenges, and its overall impact is further reduced by the fact that the circuit is situated at altitude, some 500m above sea level. This has the effect of reducing engine power by approximately five percent, while also reducing loads on certain engine components such as the pistons.

The engine is at full throttle for just over 64 percent of the lap - a value slightly above the season average of approximately 62 percent. The longest single period at full throttle barely exceeds ten seconds, so the main challenge for the engine team is ensuring strong performance from low revs so the engine launches well out of the slow corners, particularly Turn Seven which leads onto the uphill drag to Turn 10.

As Nelson Piquet explains: "We approach Turn Seven downhill in seventh gear at almost 300km/h before braking and downshifting to third for the hairpin. It's really important to stay online and hit the apex through this corner so that you can apply the throttle early on the exit to carry as much speed on the long drag back up the hill towards the high-speed chicane of Turns Eight and Nine."

The circuit includes a number of elevation changes, but none are sudden enough to cause the engine systems any concern. The only note of caution is finding the best line through some of the bumpier corners, and particularly the chicane, to avoid spending too much time on the rev limiter, which is potentially damaging for the engine.
 
Man of Honour
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Posts
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Wohho back with not much spare time.. :D

Anyone know if London congestion charge applys on Sunday and if it does. Is any part of shepards bush in the zone? as I got a little lost.
 
Man of Honour
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Great one for webber. I like him so much more than vettel.

Rollon hungary, hopfully it'll be hot and we will see the true state of play between brawn and red bull.
 
Man of Honour
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Well what I mean is the way he kind of took the 'ah well, its what drivers do' attitude, rather than 'no comment, i'll be having a talk to him later'

But that would still shows there's a problem to solve. IMO Brawn did exactly what he had to and I'm sure once Rubens has all the facts he'll back down.
Brawn has a huge amount of experience and handled it in the only sensible way.
 
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