Nurburgring Touristenfahrten Porsche/BMW crash

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Popped this in here because I felt it didn't really fit anywhere else.

Firstly, everyone survived.


Who do you think was at fault?

For me it was the Porsche.

When I went to the Nurburgring one of the hard rules was only overtake after an indicate, meaning only overtake if the car in front yielded and indicated that intent. Additionally he steered into a high kerb at ~120mph. Doesn't matter what car it is, it ain't gonna react well to that.
 
Shows how far we've come where a crash like that doesn't result in a fatal accident. Surprised the Porsche driver managed to not lose any legs considering the damage to the front of the car, what a waste of an incredible car.

It's a really tricky one, blame wise. The BMW doesn't appear to check their mirrors once - and has around 10s from when the Porsche first appears to the incident. It's been a while (10 years?) since I went to the Nurburgring but I do remember it being absolutely hammered into us about absolutely checking your mirrors every few seconds because of how fast certain cars approach.

Initially I thought that the Porsche was fully to blame (and I still think the pass was way too ambitious considering where they are on track) - but the Porsche driver does ease off the throttle and drops almost 30kph as he approaches and waits for what looks like a relatively safe gap. The car making the overtake is obliged to pass safely - so I think with that in mind the Porsche should have waited, patience is so important at the Nurburgring. I'd probably go 60/40 blame on the BMW but both parties could have done so much more to avoid it. The whole incident is entirely avoided if the BMW checks their mirrors just once in the 10s before the incident and indicates to the right to pull over.

That bill to fix the barriers certainly would have been a lot too - on top of your now absolutely wrecked M2 or GT3RS. At least they didn't die!
 
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t2na said:
That bill to fix the barriers certainly would have been a lot too - on top of your now absolutely wrecked M2 or GT3RS. At least they didn't die!
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Hope they had track insurance, as yeah thats going to cost them a pretty little fortune, recovery of your car alone on the ring costs a fair chunk.

100% BMW fault, but a chunk of blame will lay with the Porsche too due to the rules of the ring.
But very clear the BMW has not checked a single mirror to understand whats behind, how close or if they are trying to pass, general rules of the ring also state that you should be prepared to give up your place on track and/or your lap for other vehicles coming through.
But same time, yes the BMW did not indicate so Porsche should not have flown through so fast.
Damned if do, damned if dont for Porsche, where as BMW driver deffo thought he could race harder than the car actually can.
 
I don't see how that can be anything but the BMWs fault.

In any case, I think a lot of the driving standards issues currently happening at the Ring are due to their policy of not allowing accredited media to show crashes. It's led to an air of 'nothing ever goes badly wrong' and over estimation of personal driving ability.
 
They are both at fault, but more on the Porsche. Went for a gap where there wasn’t a gap, the BMW did not indicate that it was moving over. Anyone who says differently doesn’t understand the rules of the Ring. BMW should also have been more aware. Insurance won’t care of course, if they had any, both are getting shafted.

Amazing both walked away. I wonder if there are any lasting injuries.
 
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If say BMW fault as well although it wasn't the smartest place to overtake.

The Porsche driver was about as far over their side of the track as they could be, I guess the BMW driver didn't have a clue and moved left into the Porsche.

But.... Fault aside I stand by my first comment.
 
It was a tourist day, which means these rules apply: https://nuerburgring.de/info/company/gtc/driving-regulations

"Vehicles must use the roadway. They must drive on the right-hand side. Overtaking is only allowed on the left. Drifting is not permitted."

The Nurburgring on a tourist day is in effect a two lane one way public road, without lane markers. Tourist days are not track days. If you move from the right to the left, you must check there is nothing to your left, just as you would if you were changing lanes on a motorway. For that reason, the BMW is at least majority if not wholly at fault.

Both drivers are fortunate to walk away with their lives.
 
BMW intruded on the racing line for no good reason irrespective that tourist days aren't for racing. Unfortunate reality of the Ring though there is a mix of ability and high speeds.
 
100% Porsche's fault. You can see in the very first second of the clip that the BMW is keeping a straight line and that the Porsche is trying to overtake on the inside. My guess is that the Porsche's grip wasn't as good as the driver expected and it drifted out into the BMW
 
Quartz said:
100% Porsche's fault. You can see in the very first second of the clip that the BMW is keeping a straight line and that the Porsche is trying to overtake on the inside. My guess is that the Porsche's grip wasn't as good as the driver expected and it drifted out into the BMW
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Can see at the start of the external view the Porsche is still over to the left and the BMW driver has come across to take the racing line despite not needing to and from the looks of it without checking.

EDIT: Personally I'd have been a lot more cautious if I was the Porsche driver after the way the BMW took the corner before despite the Porsche coming up so quickly - just because they shouldn't be doing that doesn't make you any less dead if it comes to it.
 
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www.bridgetogantry.com

Nürburgring TF Overtaking Rules for DUMMIES

After a certain fiery accident on a Saturday night public session earlier this month between a 992 GT3RS and a British M2 (July 2025)*, I’ve been forced to watch and read some rather painful …
www.bridgetogantry.com www.bridgetogantry.com

This is worth a read.

To me, the M2 was always going to come over to the left. I was there last week and similar happened to me, I went to pass on the left of one of the RingFreak BM rentals. I was having instruction and he told me to hold position. The BM moved over and would have collected us. Passing on the left, of a left kink/corner, without the slower car indicating, is a risk irrespective of the rules.

TF is a contradiction in rules and safety. The lad in the GR Yaris died on the Saturday afternoon we were there. Was even saying to my instructor earlier in the day what is it going to take as it got very busy at one point. Bizzarely, the track got quiet later in the afternoon as everyone was stuck in the car park.
 
I do not understand people pinning this one on the BMW at all. There was no indicating to say the car should pass there. And we can make jokes about BMW drivers and using their indicators, but the Porsche put his car there and it all went wrong.
They were not in a motor race. The passing car did not pass on this single lane road safely.
 
Emlyn_Dewar said:
The passing car did not pass on this single lane road safely.
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That's the crazy part of TF. During TF there are two lanes. I know, I think it's nuts.

During TF days it's not a track day.

Slow cars on the right, fast cars on the left. The M2 is considered to have left it's "lane" and moved into the fast lane the Porsche was in.

According to that BTG article, the M2 takes some blame for moving into the fast lane and the Porsche will take some blame for passing at over 130kmh.

You don't have to wear a helmet on TF - there's a whole argument about a helmet being worse for you in an accident when you only have the factory 3 point safety belt. The GR driver who died wasn't wearing a helmet but was thrown from the car. From what I can gather, he wasn't quite thrown out but was outside the car as it was rolling.

A driver is not allowed to wear a HANS device on TF. Passengers are allowed to wear them.

Showing crash footage was stopped a few years ago and at the time it made sense. I think now, with so many cars going and so many thinking that a couple of track days in the UK makes you invincible on the ring, you need to see what can happen when it all goes wrong.
 
The BMW driver was inattentive, but it was the impatience of the Porsche driver that caused the collision. Someone else's poor driving is not an excuse to cause an accident.
 
GravyMonster said:
No need to guess here. If you watch the OP's video to the end you can see that the Porsche is as far over to the left as possible and the BMW turns in and clips him.
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I see the BMW start moving to the left, then seems to notice the Porsche and moves back to the right.
Porsche then goes for the overtake and is already steering left toward the kerb before he's even level with the BMW's back end. He bounces off the kerb, crosses in front of the BMW and they collide... or so it seems.
However, the opening frames of the video appear to show the BMW quite far left on the track, with the Porsche in front and starting to yaw right, suggesting that the BMW swung back over and into the Porsche's back end.
 
Quartz said:
My guess is that the Porsche's grip wasn't as good as the driver expected and it drifted out into the BMW
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Porsche clips the kerb and it throws him towards the BMW.

The clip I posted is terrible tbh but it's the only one I could link outside FB that I found at the time. There's one on FB and it's pure original recording, you can hear the impact of the wheel/tyre on the kerb.

 
ttaskmaster said:
I see the BMW start moving to the left, then seems to notice the Porsche and moves back to the right.
Porsche then goes for the overtake and is already steering left toward the kerb before he's even level with the BMW's back end. He bounces off the kerb, crosses in front of the BMW and they collide... or so it seems.
However, the opening frames of the video appear to show the BMW quite far left on the track, with the Porsche in front and starting to yaw right, suggesting that the BMW swung back over and into the Porsche's back end.
Click to expand...

BMW almost certainly moved onto the fast line through the corner as they did the corner before - loads of people do it there despite not going fast enough to need to and/or even on public days you should still stay off it when faster vehicles are approaching. It doesn't look like the Porsche went into the side of the BMW rather the BMW came out and clipped the Porsche.

The GT3 RS has extremely good grip and handling unless something went badly wrong it can take that line through there at far higher speed without running wide even if the driver needed some correction.
 
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