Nvidia and freesync, hypothetical.

[D.P.]

You doubt the $500 estimate? The part costs $2000 if you were to buy it yourself. Nvidia paying $500 for the module seems pretty realistic to me. Now, add the add the cost of the 3GB of memory and the whatever Nvidia charge to program the FPGA. It would be very surprising if the monitor manufacturer was paying Nvidia less than $700 for it.

$2000 is expensive for a 27 inch monitor.

as for current Gsync tax been $30-$40 haha yes, good joke.

And I didn't make any claims to what the long term plans of Nvidia are.

You really think Asus would be paying $700, not a chance at all. Asus' production cost on the whole monitor is probably less than $1000.

And yes, the actually real Gsync cost that a manufacture will be paying for standard GSYCN module is about $30. Sure, when the manufacturer sells a gsync monitor they might add $70-150 to the price tag, but that is just them making more profit based on demand. If demand wasn't there then cost differences between gsync and freesync would be much closer to the true manufacturing cost differences.

it costs Nvidia about $7-9 for a current gsync module, they will be aiming to make the HDR version a similar cost.

 

[bru]

Everybody keeps talking about the Exasperating price of the 27" GSync 144hz HDR monitor and the very expensive module, but ill ask you this, how much is the equivalent Freesync variant?

Oh wait their isn't one.



Yet.

 

[passifid]

Would love vrr all gpu it would be amazing

 

[melmac]

They are the sane chips.

What's that go to do with what I am saying? They are the same chip but used in different ways. Mobile GPU's use embedded display port which has a different set of requirements than Display port used on a desktop GPU. If you are putting a GPU into a laptop it has to conform to the eDP specification. It requires certain hardware to meet those specifications, hardware that's not needed in a desktop GPU unless you are going to connect to an adaptive sync monitor.

Nvidia have already stated that they have no plans to support Adaptive sync, so why spend the money to make their desktop GPU cards compatible with an optional part of the Display port specification?

 

[bru]

What's that go to do with what I am saying? They are the same chip but used in different ways. Mobile GPU's use embedded display port which has a different set of requirements than Display port used on a desktop GPU. If you are putting a GPU into a laptop it has to conform to the eDP specification. It requires certain hardware to meet those specifications, hardware that's not needed in a desktop GPU unless you are going to connect to an adaptive sync monitor.

Nvidia have already stated that they have no plans to support Adaptive sync, so why spend the money to make their desktop GPU cards compatible with an optional part of the Display port specification?

Because they want to be able to use the 'SAME' chips in laptops as well as desktops, if the desktop parts didn't already meet the EDP specifications they would need to make different chips for both laptops and desktops.

 

[melmac]

Because they want to be able to use the 'SAME' chips in laptops as well as desktops, if the desktop parts didn't already meet the EDP specifications they would need to make different chips for both laptops and desktops.

Why would they need to make different chips? You know there is more to a graphics card than just the chip? right? And you also know that the display port isn't actually a part of the chip? You do know that right? And there are different specifications for the display port on a desktop PC and laptop.

Just get this straight, Nvidia started supporting adaptive sync with the release of Pascal? They choose not to in their desktop cards?

 

[melmac]

You really think Asus would be paying $700, not a chance at all. Asus' production cost on the whole monitor is probably less than $1000.

Yes, Whatever dude. I mean seriously, give me one bit of evidence for this statement? Show me how you work out the costs. PCPer has shown how it worked out the costs based on real information and their knowledge of the industry. Show me where you can buy that chip for less than $500.

And yes, the actually real Gsync cost that a manufacture will be paying for standard GSYCN module is about $30.

You seem so sure of that. Again, just post a link please to where you are getting this figure from? ​

 

[Quartz]

Hello. I was just having a think. While i have a feeling it will never happen, as gsync seems to be too profitable for them. But if nvidia did ever descide to support freesync, what do we think it would take to get it working?

It will come as part of HDMI 2.1. (VRR is part of the HDMI 2.1 specification.) Hopefully with the 11xx cards.

 

[sadbuttrue]

VRR is an optional part of HDMI 2.1 and does not need to be implemented for certification.

Q: Can products have a combination of these features?
A: Yes, but it depends on each manufacturer’s implementation, so it is necessary to carefully check their specifications and marketing materials.

 

[nashathedog]

You really think Asus would be paying $700, not a chance at all. Asus' production cost on the whole monitor is probably less than $1000.

And yes, the actually real Gsync cost that a manufacture will be paying for standard GSYCN module is about $30. Sure, when the manufacturer sells a gsync monitor they might add $70-150 to the price tag, but that is just them making more profit based on demand. If demand wasn't there then cost differences between gsync and freesync would be much closer to the true manufacturing cost differences.

it costs Nvidia about $7-9 for a current gsync module, they will be aiming to make the HDR version a similar cost.

There's been plenty of Freesync, G-sync monitor comparisons since they hit the market and before buying my Freesync monitors (I went through 3) we all had plenty of debates on here about whether the £150 to £200 premium for G-sync could be justified.

The 3440x1440 Acer models had a £200 price difference, admittedly the G-sync model could be overclocked to 100hz (at your own risk) while the Freesync was at 75hz but with a 30-75hz working Freesync range and LFC support it's every bit as good as the G-sync version so the £200 difference wasn't justified. I don't accept that they're taking advantage of demand for one and not the other. They take advantage period, It's only when people start complaining with their wallets that things change.

 

[D.P.]

There's been plenty of Freesync, G-sync monitor comparisons since they hit the market and before buying my Freesync monitors (I went through 3) we all had plenty of debates on here about whether the £150 to £200 premium for G-sync could be justified.

The 3440x1440 Acer models had a £200 price difference, admittedly the G-sync model could be overclocked to 100hz (at your own risk) while the Freesync was at 75hz but with a 30-75hz working Freesync range and LFC support it's every bit as good as the G-sync version so the £200 difference wasn't justified. I don't accept that they're taking advantage of demand for one and not the other. They take advantage period, It's only when people start complaining with their wallets that things change.

You are mixing up retail prices with the actual manufacturing costs. Monitor manufactures feel like they can sell gsync monitors for $50-150 more, sometimes higher amounts. That doesn't tell you anything about production costs, except if you look at the lower end (some gsync monitors have a $30-50 premium over freesync equivalents with LFC) then the higher discrpenacy is down to higher profits, or other production cost issues outside the purchase of the gsync module.

Gsync is marketed as a premium feature. It very well may be the case that freesync and gsync give idential performances, but the only thing that matters is the purchases perception of value. If people are willing to pay $200 more for a gsync screen then that is the value of gsync, the cost is much less.

 

[D.P.]

Yes, Whatever dude. I mean seriously, give me one bit of evidence for this statement? Show me how you work out the costs. PCPer has shown how it worked out the costs based on real information and their knowledge of the industry. Show me where you can buy that chip for less than $500.



You seem so sure of that. Again, just post a link please to where you are getting this figure from? ​

I will put my hands up and apologize for not probiding any links. All of this infomration is out there on numerous discusion boards but for the most paert you will never find a direct black and white quote of an exact offical costing, so anything I do post you will liekly ignore - and I understand that.

What one can easily do is make intelligent estimates based on industry margins, volume purchaisng etc. It is a simple fact that Asus sells a very high end Gsync HDR 4K monitor for $2000. It would be absurd to think Asus paid $700 for a gsync module. The entire monitor BoM and manufacturign costs will eb wlel under $1000. In many industries production cost will be 1/5th of retail cost. Once it leaves the factory you have shipping, insurance, import duties and taxes, delivery to retailer, and then retailer profit margins and sales taxes. You can find these for numerous products. There is just no logical world where a $2000 high end screen can have a single additional component costing $700.

The original gsync module can be made for under $10 when you look at volume parts, a there have been a few discussions on this on various forums. YThe actual license cost is under NDA, but license costs in most industries are very small, because overall profit margins are actually far smaller than you imagine. An example I worked with at work last month, a big car company like Mercedes might pay a company like Here Maps $10 per produced car for all the navigation software and suppoirt, a feature sold for $1000-2000 upgrades on a $50,000 car. A matter of $1-2 is an issue when selling a 25-50k.

within IT equipment I've seen license fees in the range of 10-20cents on a $100 retail item.

 

[Zeed]

@D.P. dont tell them that producing electronics is like 30% of end price... ITS A SECRET !!!!

It's like do people here think it costs over 100 quid to produce 8gb ddr4 module ??

 

[melmac]

I will put my hands up and apologize for not probiding any links. All of this infomration is out there on numerous discusion boards but for the most paert you will never find a direct black and white quote of an exact offical costing, so anything I do post you will liekly ignore - and I understand that.

What one can easily do is make intelligent estimates based on industry margins, volume purchaisng etc. It is a simple fact that Asus sells a very high end Gsync HDR 4K monitor for $2000. It would be absurd to think Asus paid $700 for a gsync module. The entire monitor BoM and manufacturign costs will eb wlel under $1000. In many industries production cost will be 1/5th of retail cost. Once it leaves the factory you have shipping, insurance, import duties and taxes, delivery to retailer, and then retailer profit margins and sales taxes. You can find these for numerous products. There is just no logical world where a $2000 high end screen can have a single additional component costing $700.

The original gsync module can be made for under $10 when you look at volume parts, a there have been a few discussions on this on various forums. YThe actual license cost is under NDA, but license costs in most industries are very small, because overall profit margins are actually far smaller than you imagine. An example I worked with at work last month, a big car company like Mercedes might pay a company like Here Maps $10 per produced car for all the navigation software and suppoirt, a feature sold for $1000-2000 upgrades on a $50,000 car. A matter of $1-2 is an issue when selling a 25-50k.

within IT equipment I've seen license fees in the range of 10-20cents on a $100 retail item.

That's fine, I wouldn't ignore what you post, but I would challenge it.

Again, I am asking you to provide figures for your estimate of what the module cost in the new Gsync monitor. All you are doing is saying that it's absurd, that it's never that price. That the total cost only came to $1000, but that they never paid $700 for the module. Prove it. Show some figures that actually corroborate what you are saying. We know what the unit is called, we know the price from an official distributer and that's not a retail price, we know there is the cost of memory as well and we also know that Nvidia charge a licence on top of all that. The Gsync module isn't a simple unit, it's a complicated piece of technology.

And yes, there have been several discussions on the cost of the original Gsync module + Licence and none have proved conclusive. You think it's only $30, I think it's more. Your car example isn't relevant. Neither is your IT equipment example, licence fees can often be a lot more than the cost of the item.

 

[mid_gen]

I'd be staggered if the hardware cost more than $10.

The BOM for electronics is a tiny fraction of the retail price usually (source : I knew a lot of people in the business of manufacturing and distributing consumer electronic goods when I was living in Hong Kong).

 

[melmac]

I'd be staggered if the hardware cost more than $10.

The BOM for electronics is a tiny fraction of the retail price usually (source : I knew a lot of people in the business of manufacturing and distributing consumer electronic goods when I was living in Hong Kong).

Which unit are you talking about? If it's the first one, then yeah, $10 is as good as guess as any. We know what the part is called and the price it costs from Distributers and that's around $20 so presume Nvidia are getting it cheaper than that.

 

[tommybhoy]

For gods sake get it right, I get in a twist and Panos gets in a fizz, I dunno some people can't even get the simplest things straight.

You're bang on, That would make for a good campaign.

 

[Rroff]

And yes, there have been several discussions on the cost of the original Gsync module + Licence and none have proved conclusive. You think it's only $30, I think it's more. Your car example isn't relevant. Neither is your IT equipment example, licence fees can often be a lot more than the cost of the item.

The original G-Sync module (people have done teardowns) is an off the shelf Altera FPGA with minor modification by nVidia hardware wise. I can source all the hardware for around $9/unit currently if buying in multiples of 5000.

I've not checked the latest one but I suspect people are getting the pricing mixed up with the development kit.

 

[IT Troll]

Isn’t the proprietary nature of the tech simply a lock-in strategy? You’ve invested in an expensive Gsync monitor and so you will keep buying Nvidia cards.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Isn’t the proprietary nature of the tech simply a lock-in strategy? You’ve invested in an expensive Gsync monitor and so you will keep buying Nvidia cards.

It's certainly part of it. Also, who's fault do you think it is that the new HDR panels are so extortionate? I can tell you for a fact, NVIDIA had a say in the RRP. Keeping things proprietary has it's other uses too, however. There are a few aspects of G-Sync that NVIDIA probably don't want AMD knowing in terms of the module.

The original G-Sync module (people have done teardowns) is an off the shelf Altera FPGA with minor modification by nVidia hardware wise. I can source all the hardware for around $9/unit currently if buying in multiples of 5000.

I've not checked the latest one but I suspect people are getting the pricing mixed up with the development kit.

You realise there's things that they can't physically tear down, right? It doesn't run on orange juice.

That's fine, I wouldn't ignore what you post, but I would challenge it.

Again, I am asking you to provide figures for your estimate of what the module cost in the new Gsync monitor. All you are doing is saying that it's absurd, that it's never that price. That the total cost only came to $1000, but that they never paid $700 for the module. Prove it. Show some figures that actually corroborate what you are saying. We know what the unit is called, we know the price from an official distributer and that's not a retail price, we know there is the cost of memory as well and we also know that Nvidia charge a licence on top of all that. The Gsync module isn't a simple unit, it's a complicated piece of technology.

And yes, there have been several discussions on the cost of the original Gsync module + Licence and none have proved conclusive. You think it's only $30, I think it's more. Your car example isn't relevant. Neither is your IT equipment example, licence fees can often be a lot more than the cost of the item.

You'll have to go a lot warmer than that.