Nvidia Gameworks at Gamescom 2015

[Gregster]

GameWorks is getting bigger and better and it is here to stay

 

[Gregster]

Whilst GameWorks hasn't been without its issues, I for one applaud Nvidia for driving forward with these sweet looking effects. Sure it comes at a performance hit but that is to be expected. After playing some of the bigger titles like AC:U and TW3, I am massively impressed with how these games looked and played.

Keep it up Nvidia

 

[Gregster]

Most of these effects have little performance hit if done properly.

The performance hit on what you would recognise as typical NV PhysX is insane, its way over what it should be. And those effects if done independently from Nvidia also don't care what GPU it runs on.

Same with W3 Hair Works, the amount of Tessellation in that is madness, a massive drain on resources for no visual benefit what so ever if compared with much less Tessellation.

This is something Game Developers should be doing themselves.

I would love to see what you have done from scratch as you seem to know better. Any links/vids and I do mean scratch, not pre-compiled libraries.

 

[Gregster]

So Humbug you're using demos you've made using middleware to argue that developers should not use middleware? lol

That's exactly it.

 

[Gregster]

D.P is spot on here and some very valid points.

 

[Gregster]

As a massive fan of Michael Bay style effects, I like the massively overdone smoke and particles etc.

 

[Gregster]

I usually love his films as well but they run at a constant frame rate

Haha, I will give you that one

 

[Gregster]

I like that they're going for it but hope they get better at it tbh. The hair works on Witcher 3 was mostly disappointing. The big wolf thing looks like it shampoo'd it's hair 1000x to get a super silky smooth sheen and I've heard others comment that Gerald / Geralt looks better without it too.

Still it's nice they do this and I like that they are progressing stuff, I only ever hear rumours of it being damaging to other vendors and I'm a little uneducated on that bit so simply hope it's not the case. If it is then it's pretty negative, if not then it's harming nobody but we can only hope they get better at it still. Don't know why people are acting like this is a rally call to support Nvidia though, it's at the point where we know they love proprietary and aggressive strategies and know they are the market leader so don't need any more support anyway :?

Good post and fair comments.

They will get better and devs will get better as well and time will tell, as will DX12. I was a big fan of TressFX and how that looked in TR (doesn't work for me in Lichdom as it is disabled on Nvidia hardware) and would like to see some hotty with Lara style hair

 

[Gregster]

I quoted what AMD have said and intended to do, they have even gone as far as to put the option in their drivers. So either they do have per game tessellation settings that reduce the rate from what the developers intended, or they have a button that does nothing.

You have loaded up one game and gone, 'well it kinda looks the same bruv'.

Now, to go off on a tangent to all this. What ever happened to AMD's own gameworks style programme they made a big song and dance about a while back?

Fair point and I looked to see if AMD had made a retraction or said anything else but nothing, so are we to assume AMD are lowering tessellation to get better frames via profiles or are AMD not delivering on what they said they would do?

 

[Gregster]

There is always an option to turn off GameWorks and AMDMatt has said many times "turn off GameWorks features to get a playable game" on AMD hardware. It is an option (that I like and always have on) and if your hardware can't handle it, switch it off..... No biggie.

 

[Gregster]

Yer Greggg - Nvidia are at a point they are catering for the majority of the GPU market and a few snidey remarks are not going to stop them striving forward.

 

[Gregster]

I know you are adamant AMD is discrediting Nvidia but I was referring to people on here who generally try to discredit AMD such as they are cheating in drivers, overheat, bad drivers, etc...

So you are defending AMD by accusing others of being Nvidia shills?

 

[Gregster]

This is essentially what could be happening with Gameworks. Nvidia paying devs to use it rather than other alternatives such as Bullet, Havok, etc.

Dirty tricks happen when it comes to making money and some companies do it more than others. If AMD was an unscrupulous company they would have got hold of the source code for Gameworks by any means possible.

Can you explain to me why I can't use TressFX in Lichdom if AMD are so squeaky clean? I would say that AMD paid the devs to block Nvidia from using it, which is a shame really but I can't see the devs alienating 75%+ of the market off their own backs.

 

[Gregster]

Basically yes. "I dont love AMD but I get angry because people love Nvidia"?

I buy the GPU which best suits my needs and Im not bothered what other people choose to buy/defend. That dosnt make me a fanboy...it makes me an adult

Same for me. I used GameWorks on my Fury X and Titan X and whilst it performed better on the Titan X, it didn't perform badly on the Fury X. All the games I played massively favoured the Nvidia card and so it should at the price range but I happily played TW3 with all of the GameWorks features on with no issues.

Would it be better if Nvidia blocked AMD cards from using any of the GW Libs? I know there would be some serious kick off if they did.

 

[Gregster]

Probably more like 80%+ now

I think the last count had Nvidia at 77.5% and AMD at 22.5% market share in the discrete GPU segment. Why would a company decide to **** off 77.5% by blocking them from using something that is supposedly "Open" if they wasn't paid to?

You can and there's video's showing it running on NV cards. Why the developer chose to disable the option in game is unknown. A simple Cfg tweak allows you to enable it from reading around. Still it makes no sense to me.

Of course I can and the same way AMD users could run PhysX in the olden days before it got blocked but that doesn't make it any righter when it is blocked and needs some cfg tweaking to get working. The majority of gamers won't know this either.

 

[Gregster]

It just seems crazy to me to block the majority of gamers from using something that is open. GameWorks can be turned on or off, so it shouldn't really matter that much. AC:U for all its slating is probably my most played game of recent times as well as Batman Arkham Knight and both of these ran well on AMD and Nvidia, so I don't see an issue.

 

[Gregster]

So Humbug's point was that Nvidia's middleware (GameWorks) effects can be achieved using other middleware?
Was this supposed to be a revelation?
Or was the point that he didn't like that Nvidia were advertising and promoting their middleware over the alternatives? Cuz surely that's the point of advertising?

I think the question is, would the games that used GameWorks/TressFX or the other middlewares out there (like the ones Humbug used) have included the effects they did if it wasn't for these libraries? Was it a choice of 'write it from scratch' or 'use a middleware' or was it a choice of 'include the optional effects' or 'don't include the optional effects'? I'd rather have the option and not use it than not have the option.

I have no problem with GameWorks, even if all it does is encourage someone else to do the same effects 'better'. The better GameWorks gets, the better the competition will have to be and as is so usually the case, competition usually works out good for us, the consumer.

Also remember when the panties were getting twisted in the Fury X thread saying how AMD people don't go into Nvidia related threads and argue...

People are welcome to their opinion in any thread as far as I am concerned and they are welcome to discuss the good and bad of GameWorks but I do scratch my head when someone says that Devs should not be using middleware for games and to prove his point uses miuddleware for his demo's

The price and time constraints on devs is tight. Just look at the recent news about Konami and their supposed treatment of their employee's and treating them no better than slaves! I am a bit of a realist and can see why they would choose GameWorks over building a new engine for every game. Ohhh and I am big into a game called "Dreamfall Chapters". This runs at 27 fps in some places at 1440P with all settings maxed and whilst it is pretty, it isn't exactly showing why it should be that demanding. This game is a Steam greenlight game and they just don't have the resources or the money. Should we get the pitchforks out on them?

 

[Gregster]

Gameworks only benefits nVidia users. AMD users can't use physx and all over effects seem to cripple AMD performance. Even at best it makes game perform worse all round for all users. Most turn any effects off they can as they rather do without them! This says a lot lol.

No mate, GameWorks ran fine on my Fury X and PhysX effects worked well also in the games I played. The effects are good but yer, they are demanding but I would rather have them than not and if it is too demanding, you can switch them off, so no real loss to those on lower systems.

 

[Gregster]

Mantle has evolved and now benefits everyone...

Actually it doesn't or didn't and was more of a good thing for AMD users but since the Fiji cards, Mantle as we know it is terrible and a 290 was getting as many frames as my Fury X on Mantle. On Nvidia, I couldn't use it full stop, so nothing good there at all.

 

[Gregster]

Of course Mantle 1.0 is no used for new cards...but Vulkan is Mantle reincarnate...

Can I get Vulkan? I assume you are using it to know how good it is?