Then we have the maxwell cards vs all the GCN cards since the 7950 Tahiti. By your benchmark, the AMD cards would have the higher market share
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NVIDIA Publishes DirectX 12 Tips for Developers
- Thread starter Boomstick777
- Start date
Then we have the maxwell cards vs all the GCN cards since the 7950 Tahiti. By your benchmark, the AMD cards would have the higher market share
Quoted for truth though some won't like it.
Caporegime
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AMD seem to have been rather pathetic when it comes to working with devs this last 18 months or so. No money = cutbacks = no people to do it
Then we have the maxwell cards vs all the GCN cards since the 7950 Tahiti. By your benchmark, the AMD cards would have the higher market share
Wouldn't surprise me if Nvidia still sold more
Soldato
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What does that "document" consist of? Not using async shaders and incorporating lameworks into everything? lol, nty. Have we actually had ANY well optimised GameWorks sponsored games? I don't think we have.
Spot on. AMD always want others to do things for them and then whinge when things are not going their way.
Alternatively, they don't make the same effort to "sway" devs to gimp opposition performance.
So you can look at it as AMD are too lazy, or AMD aren't as dirty. Matter of perspective, which I'm surprised you can't see with all your neutrality.
Between the lines,
Please optimize for our GPU's and don't use anything that would give AMD a boost
Not really, since almost all of the advice is vendor agnostic.
Of course there are differences between AMD and nvidia hardware and so of course the developer will have to make separate code paths to get the best performance out of each vendor's architecture. This is nothing new, the only change is that with dX12 the driver layer is thinner and so there is greater responsibility on the developer to do architecture specific optimization. This is why actually a lot lf developers are really not that excited about DX12, only the big studios and game engine developers will see big improvements.
More now than ever before game performance is going to depend on how well AMD and nvidia provide support to developers. We have a historic precedence for vendor-developer interaction, a company commanding a significant market share and with substantial resources.
Associate
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You really EXPECT the industry to be that crap that they need money throwing at them (money at every single dev) for each single time they're willing to push a feature? Nvidia might have money to spare but it's a sad state of affairs when the devs are willing to watch the industry go down the pan and support for proper features fall to wayside just because they aren't getting penny rolled and the fanboys sit on the sidelines and support laziness / money hatting :?AMD seem to have been rather pathetic when it comes to working with devs this last 18 months or so. No money = cutbacks = no people to do it
Honestly, they probably could do better to support devs based on what I've heard but I think this argument that they need to throw money at every dev or they are a bad company is stupid. And why would AMD need to even compile a list if this list is meant to be fair and complete for all vendors? Also as far as we're aware AMD currently has better DX12 support due to the design of there chips and the fact that they have similar architecture to consoles means they're going to likely get more support anyway. I've been hearing that banged around these forums a lot lately so it seems like there's little reason for AMD to have had a need to make a list but obviously Nvidia made it because we're seeing potential weak support / poor design with the gtx 970 so they want to make sure those weaknesses don't become prevalent issues. Of course we have a load of people rushing in to bash AMD with the usual level of bias just because they didn't make a list that wasn't needed on there end? Good show guys, not showing your fanboy elements at all. At this point we don't even know if AMD are already compiling one / done it already but not made a PR piece out of it but it's already a negative assumption made into a troll argument by the green guys and is apparently 'spot on' without even having any knowledge of what AMD has actually done on there side lol.
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Soldato
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Usual Nvidia hyperbole. Devs will optimise for GCN as it's what the consoles use.
Source: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
If steam is be believed then Nvidia don't have 80% market share, the 80% thing was based off quarterly sales which is not market share. Although the steam stats are not for discreet GPU alone. PC gamers are a minority compared to how many console gamers there are.
Of course this lists GPUs used in the hardware survey. It doesn't show DX12 compatible cards. Don't Nvidia's 400 and 500 cards support DX12 (to a degree) where as nothing before AMD's 7000 series do. So you'd expect Nvidia to have a higher share of DX12 cards?
+1
Sounds like AMD. Do nothing and wait for the opportunity to play the victim.
He means that AMD don't employ someone to actually support the Devs. With no one manning support for game dev's to ask their technical queries about why their code doesn't run as well as it should on AMD's hardware, how are the game dev's meant to fix their performance issue and how long should they work in the dark till they either find a fix/workaround or not use that feature.
Presumably the Unreal Engine dev's must have run into this issue if you think back to the lack of AA issue with the older versions?
AMD do have development partners, just because you can't name them doesn't mean they don't work with developers. its a case of you actually not knowing what you are talking about. (You is anyone here as usual portraying false facts about something they know nothing about)
Compare AMD alternatives to CUDA - they went through several iterations that no one has heard of (stream, etc.) which never took off as they never put any effort into pushing, supporting or documenting them, etc. and expecting the end user to run with it and then decided to conveniently embrace open source (as that means they can get away with little effort) and basically throw some stuff out there and expect other people to do the heavy lifting (hey its open source and all)... surprise surprise it largely hasn't exactly taken off either.
Thats one view ^^^^
OpenCL is growing faster than CUDA, some big names are dropping CUDA completely, its one reason Apple dropped Nvidia for AMD, thanks to the amount of work AMD put into it. eventually Nvidia will just use AMD's work to benefit themselves.
GDDR5, Open Standards 3D stacked Memory, AMD put the work in, Nvidia get to use it.
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Associate
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Last I heard they are undergoing some restructuring to specifically get the Graphics card department to have a lot more sway in the overall direction of the company. Bit early days to start jumping down there throats 2 seconds after we here Nvidia has launched a list in my opinion. Like I said I even conceded AMD probably aren't great at communicating with the devs based on what i've heard but that doesn't change that they very well could have already done this and the large group of people jumping in and slamming AMD before they even know the answer is clear bias and it's coming from some of the usual suspects too.
With the restructuring this could be something they are planning on but who knows to be honest, as I said previously though it might not even be something AMD had a reason or need to make a list for based on GCN being used in consoles so already likely to receive the support and not having any design issues like gtx 970. Quite possibly they have so I'll leave it up to AMD and Nvidia to get there support right but just saying I think we had a lot of guys banging out some bias earlier.
Soldato
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Usual Nvidia hyperbole. Devs will optimise for GCN as it's what the consoles use.
Source: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
If steam is be believed then Nvidia don't have 80% market share, the 80% thing was based off quarterly sales which is not market share. Although the steam stats are not for discreet GPU alone. PC gamers are a minority compared to how many console gamers there are.
PS4 has sold 25million since it launched till July this year, that's 10million a year. Xbox half that. PC discrete GPU's sell 40million+ a year.
Associate
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Doesn't matter much really, you're going to develop for consoles one way or another or they lose performance on several systems (systems easily designed for due to having static hardware) and then you throw in the AMD PC GPU side on top of it and even if you're looking at 50/50 to Nvidia it's still more likely they'd opt to start with the consoles to make sure they're running stable on those systems.
Remember a lot of games (such as MGS5) are actually still releasing on PS3 and 360 too so you want to throw in there sales + PS4 + Xbone + AMD GPU's on PC onto those numbers too?
Then we have the maxwell cards vs all the GCN cards since the 7950 Tahiti. By your benchmark, the AMD cards would have the higher market share
You mean all the maxwell, kepler and Fermi cards vs GCN cards since 1.1 NVidia are supporting DX12 to earlier cards than AMD are, not that is really matters because original Fermi cards will be too slow for a next gen game anyway.
Soldato
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Yeah if you like...PS3 also sold 10million a year... PC discrete GPU still sold 50-60million a year in the same time period. Completely irrelevant to a discussion regarding DX12 optimisation though as those consoles don't and a big chunk of the PC sales from the same time period won't support it.
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