Obama releases Bush torture memos

[Sankari]

Barack Obama today released four top secret memos that allowed the CIA under the Bush administration to torture al-Qaida and other suspects held at Guantánamo and secret detention centres round the world.

[...]

In the first of the memos, dated 1 August 2002, the justice department gave the go-ahead to John Rizzo, then acting general counsel to the CIA, for operatives to move to the "increased pressure phase" in interrogating an al-Qaida suspect.

Ten techniques are approved, listed as: attention grasp, walling (in which the suspect could be pushed into a wall), a facial hold, a facial slap, cramped confinement, wall standing, sleep deprivation, insects placed in a confinement box (the suspect had a fear of insects) and the waterboard. In the latter, "the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner........produces the perception of 'suffocation and incipient panic'."

'Walling' involved use of a plastic neck collar to slam suspects into a specially-built wall that the CIA said made the impact sound worse than it actually was. Other methods include food deprivation.

The techniques were applied to at least 14 suspects.

[...]

Obama, in a statement from the White House, said: "In releasing these memos, it is our intention to assure those who carrying out their duties relying in good faith upon the legal advice from the department of justice that they will not be subject to prosecution."

Anthony Romero, the ACLU executive director, said: "President Obama's assertion that there should not be prosecutions of government officials who may have committed crimes before a thorough investigation has been carried out is simply untenable."

The ACLU described the legal basis for torture as spurious.
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Source.

An excellent decision let down by lack of commitment to follow through. :/

 

[Sankari]

if all you have to say is lol, go to a dvdbunny thread

lol

 

[Sankari]

was it? he gave up after a few seconds. he seemed to be making that video for one reason only.

And what reason would that be?

The guy in question is Christopher Hitchens, a right-wing columnist. He is famous for having once said that waterboarding is "extreme interrogation" but not torture.

He accepted the challenge of being waterboarded in order to test this viewpoint. Needless to say, his opinion has now changed:

You may have read by now the official lie about this treatment, which is that it “simulates” the feeling of drowning. This is not the case. You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning—or, rather, being drowned, albeit slowly and under controlled conditions and at the mercy (or otherwise) of those who are applying the pressure.

[...]

I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: “If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.
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Source.

 

[Sankari]

Well said.

I was about to post similar, then thought this is GD and all that entails it.

Sometimes it's worth a punt!

 

[Sankari]

I would rather a video of a soldier under going it.

He does not appear to struggle or shout or anything, just drops the weights instantly. He might be genuine he might not be. I would rather see a few more videos before deciding anything.

He doesn't struggle because he surrenders immediately. He surrenders immediately because he's just a regular schmo off the street; he has no training and no resistance. Doubtless you and I would be the same.

American torturers are on record as having said that the average victim of waterboarding will surrender after a mere 14 seconds. Abu Zubaydah (a high ranking al-Qaeda member) held out for 35 seconds, which is quite an achievement.

 

[Sankari]

Anyway, I don't really have any qualms about them using it as a method of extracting information. Its clearly effective, they wouldn't use it otherwise!

It's prohibited under international law.

 

[Sankari]

Is it? Waterboarding in particular?

Yes. The UN Convention Against Torture states that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment". Waterboarding is internationally regarded as falling under this category, which is precisely why it is prohibited.

Additionally, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled: "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture".

This overrides the old "well, we had to torture him because he had essential information that was needed to save lives" excuse.

At the end of WWII, the US government prosecuted Yukio Asano (a Japanese officer). His crime? Waterboarding prisoners of war. His sentence? 15 years' hard labour.

At the end of WWII, Captain Mitsuo Komai of the Japanese Imperial Army was prosecuted in Changai, Singapore. His crime? Waterboarding prisoners of war (specifically, like this chap). His sentence? Death by hanging.

Examples could be multiplied.

 

[Sankari]

The waterboard is a really bad one. I remember seeing it being tested on random indaviduals and very few off them lasted morethan a couple of minutes.

I suggest that they were not actually subjected to the proper technique. The average "breaking" time is 14 seconds. It is inconceivable that anyone would resist for a full two minutes unless they possess a supernatural ability to breath underwater.

I've also tried it (willingly of course) in a school experiment, and it is unbelievable. Just because it's a few drops of water on the forehead it seems like nothing. But when it's happening it starts to be irritating very quickly, and then you really do panic...and this was in a completly controlled enviroment.

With respect, that was not waterboarding.

Waterboarding does not merely consist of "a few drops of water on the forehead". It involves a continual stream of water poured onto a cloth that is spread over your nose and mouth, thereby restricting your oxygen flow whilst allowing water into your respiratory tract. In other words: drowning.

 

[Sankari]

Taking waterboarding as an example, I don't think I would have too many problems with it, but someone who is afraid of water will give up in seconds.

LOL

It has nothing to with the fear of water, and everything to do with the fact that you're being slowly drowned.

Don't fool yourself; you'd crack in seconds, just like everyone else.