Obama releases Bush torture memos

[Sankari]

was it? he gave up after a few seconds. he seemed to be making that video for one reason only.

And what reason would that be?

The guy in question is Christopher Hitchens, a right-wing columnist. He is famous for having once said that waterboarding is "extreme interrogation" but not torture.

He accepted the challenge of being waterboarded in order to test this viewpoint. Needless to say, his opinion has now changed:

You may have read by now the official lie about this treatment, which is that it “simulates” the feeling of drowning. This is not the case. You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning—or, rather, being drowned, albeit slowly and under controlled conditions and at the mercy (or otherwise) of those who are applying the pressure.

[...]

I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: “If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.
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Source.

 

[@if ®afiq]

And what reason would that be?

The guy in question is Christopher Hitchens, a right-wing columnist. He is famous for having once said that waterboarding is "extreme interrogation" but not torture...

Well said.

I was about to post similar, then thought this is GD and all that entails it.

 

[Sankari]

Well said.

I was about to post similar, then thought this is GD and all that entails it.

Sometimes it's worth a punt!

 

[Sinque]

Lol platinum87.

 

[Glaucus]

And what reason would that be?

The guy in question is Christopher Hitchens, a right-wing columnist. He is famous for having once said that waterboarding is "extreme interrogation" but not torture.
]

I would rather a video of a soldier under going it.

He does not appear to struggle or shout or anything, just drops the weights instantly. He might be genuine he might not be. I would rather see a few more videos before deciding anything.

 

[aardvark]

waterboarding has been officially certified as torture.
torture is illegal under american and international law
'following orders' is not a legal defence for crimes
therefore these people should be in jail, oh no, wait, they're american, forget about it, noting to see here, move along.

 

[Glaucus]

This seems a better video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWm-QU9YRCI

they are pouring huge amounts of water on and most of them last longer than Christopher Hitchens. They are spluttering and moving. which Christopher isn't. It just seems very odd.

But anyway it is torture, but I bet if the situation arose obama would agree to torture. this is nothing more than kissing the publics rear.

 

[NiCkNaMe]

waterboarding has been officially certified as torture.
torture is illegal under american and international law
'following orders' is not a legal defence for crimes
therefore these people should be in jail, oh no, wait, they're american, forget about it, noting to see here, move along.

Oh great yeah, cut and dry lets jail them. And they're American. Great. Lets go.

 

[dangerstat]

In my honest opinion I think that those methods do not equate to torture. It seems clear that even though some of those methods seem extreme, they are necessary and whilst it might get Obama some "plus points with the lefties" in reality it'll have a negative effect on their ability to extract information from human scum.

Lets put it in perspective - they want to blow innocent people up, whether it be children or women. IMHO when your dealing with scum, sometimes to get the details out of them you need you have to descend to their level.

 

[Sankari]

I would rather a video of a soldier under going it.

He does not appear to struggle or shout or anything, just drops the weights instantly. He might be genuine he might not be. I would rather see a few more videos before deciding anything.

He doesn't struggle because he surrenders immediately. He surrenders immediately because he's just a regular schmo off the street; he has no training and no resistance. Doubtless you and I would be the same.

American torturers are on record as having said that the average victim of waterboarding will surrender after a mere 14 seconds. Abu Zubaydah (a high ranking al-Qaeda member) held out for 35 seconds, which is quite an achievement.

 

[Le_Petit_Lapin]

This seems a better video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWm-QU9YRCI

they are pouring huge amounts of water on and most of them last longer than Christopher Hitchens. They are spluttering and moving. which Christopher isn't. It just seems very odd.

They're doing it wrong. You need to put pressure on the persons chest area as well. And their feet should be elevated so that the water goes up their nose.

 

[aayzof]

A step in the right direction.

 

[Glaucus]

They're doing it wrong. You need to put pressure on the persons chest area as well.

What there is no weight on Christophers chest.

 

[Le_Petit_Lapin]

What there is no weight on Christophers chest.

True that, I was fairly sure that you were supposed to put pressure on there. :shrug:

Oh well, so in conclusion, the fat man is clearly a pussy.

Anyway, I don't really have any qualms about them using it as a method of extracting information. Its clearly effective, they wouldn't use it otherwise!

 

[Tefal]

Sorry nitefly, had to steal your picture.

Lol platinum87.

 

[Streeteh]

This seems a better video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWm-QU9YRCI

Just read one of the comments of that video:

Oh noes it is torture! some of the spineless limpwristed crybabies have obviously never been in a fraternity or suffered through rush week... IMHO torture involves permanent disability, disfigurement or dismemberment. "thinking" that you are going to drown is far different than actually drowning.

Looks like platinum87 also frequents youtube...

 

[gillywibble]

I would rather a video of a soldier under going it.

I would rather a video of Platinum87 undergoing it.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I'd like all the torture apologists to cite all the times that it has been effective in extracting useful information.

 

[DanH84]

What there is no weight on Christophers chest.

He's strapped in though isn't he? that could be used to apply pressure to the chest. The guys on youtube are free to move at will, which i imagine somewhat lessens the psychological impact.

 

[Glaucus]

He's strapped in though isn't he? that could be used to apply pressure to the chest. The guys on youtube are free to move at will, which i imagine somewhat lessens the psychological impact.

his arms and legs are strapped. So no pressure on chest. He also has next to no water being applied. where the video I posted has a heavy constant stream which will go straight through he towel.