Oculus Quest 2 v HP Reverb G2?

[danlightbulb]

Does anyone know anything about wifi6?

Was just looking at routers and the cheapest is about £95 for dual band 1800 mbps.

However the more expensive ones say they can obtain speeds of 3000 mbps (£170) or 5700 mbps (£230).

Now gigabit ethernet is 1000 mbps, so one the one hand there seems to be little point going beyond that value but now 2.5 gbps ethernet is available on some boards and routers.

Anyone know real world what this means?

 

[Unseul]

Does anyone know anything about wifi6?

Was just looking at routers and the cheapest is about £95 for dual band 1800 mbps.

However the more expensive ones say they can obtain speeds of 3000 mbps (£170) or 5700 mbps (£230).

Now gigabit ethernet is 1000 mbps, so one the one hand there seems to be little point going beyond that value but now 2.5 gbps ethernet is available on some boards and routers.

Anyone know real world what this means?

Was asking a similar question earlier, there's an Honor 3 wifi 6 router, for about £45.

From what I've understood though, the main benefit of wifi 6, is it's ability to reduce latency when multiple items are being used. If you already have a quiet wifi network, in a quiet area (I cannot pick up any other 5ghz signals other than my home modem/router), then it may not make all that big a difference, will need to wait and see.

There's only so much data the XR2 chip will be able to decode, so having more available bandwidth, beyond a certain point, won't have that much effect.

 

[danlightbulb]

Honor 3 badged as 3000 mbps, but not seeing it for anywhere near £45.

Any indication on whether Quest 2 will use dual bands?

Also it looks a bit short on ports, only has 3 spare after connecting your modem.

 

[Ravenger]

There's only so much data the XR2 chip will be able to decode, so having more available bandwidth, beyond a certain point, won't have that much effect.

This is the current issue with the Quest, as the decoder is limited to 150mbits/s. Hopefully the Quest 2 will have a higher limit.
There's also the overhead of encoding the output on the GPU, which will affect PC side performance, depending on the GPU.

 

[andybird123]

Does anyone know anything about wifi6?

Was just looking at routers and the cheapest is about £95 for dual band 1800 mbps.

However the more expensive ones say they can obtain speeds of 3000 mbps (£170) or 5700 mbps (£230).

Now gigabit ethernet is 1000 mbps, so one the one hand there seems to be little point going beyond that value but now 2.5 gbps ethernet is available on some boards and routers.

Anyone know real world what this means?

The bigger number is the total available bandwidth for multiple devices, iirc the highest rate the Q2 will connect at is like 1.2gbps? It's in that video linked in one of the other quest 2 threads on here

The highest it'll connect at over wifi5 is 866mbps, so wifi6 definitely seems like it could provide an improvement, some seem to be saying they get better results on the quest one via a pcie card WiFi adapter set as a hotspot on 5ghz

 

[danlightbulb]

a lot of these wifi 6 routers seem capable at operating at speeds higher than gigabit ethernet yet only have gigabit ethernet ports, not 2.5G. Surely in that case they'd be limited to the gigabit ethernet speed? For example if you were streaming a film from a NAS over gigabit ethernet, what's the point connecting wirelessly at 3000 mbps?

 

[aoaaron]

small point of correction - the DCS comparison was using virtual desktop at 90hz worth a resolution bump, not link.

Do you have a reference for the confirmation you mention about degraded visuals with 90hz? Haven’t seen that confirmed anywhere.

I think it’s ultimately disappointing that they couldn’t get a setup where you could plug in a proper DisplayPort/USB and just use the Quest 2 purely as a PCVR headset without the need for quality reducing/latency increasing compression. A true hybrid would be great.

Can't find reference at hand but Occy basically said (might have been Carmack) that if they enable 90hz, it will be a performance mod which sacrifces visual fidelity on the fly to hit the 90hz.
It makes absolute sense. If using 72hz, more available bandwith for better visuals. If using 90hz, less available bandwith. If there was not an improvement with 72hz, I'd be concerned.

Yes, I agree. Add a display port to the Q2 and its value increases astronomically.

 

[aoaaron]

I need to get a 3080 before I can consider getting a G2 - I need one for my Index anyway. I'll be interested in how good the Quest 2 is over link compared to the Index.

If it's good enough I might consider selling the Index and getting a G2 just for sims, and using the Quest 2 for everything else. It's a shame the Quest 2 doesn't have displayport over USBC.

Also it now looks like Virtual Desktop is working for Quest 2 at 90hz with around 30ms latency. If I can get it working acceptably using a wi-fi repeater then I could have proper roomscale wireless PC VR, which makes using my Index in my cramped attic a bit redundant.

I think I'm waiting for AMD for now rather than chasing a 3080.

I really want to play SkyrimVR in the best visual fidelity and TBH Index has too many compromises in dark scenes (glare, etc.).

 

[Unseul]

Honor 3 badged as 3000 mbps, but not seeing it for anywhere near £45.

Any indication on whether Quest 2 will use dual bands?

Also it looks a bit short on ports, only has 3 spare after connecting your modem.

Can't link competitors, but there's a few places. It's a £45 wifi6 router, it's not going to have a million connections and features . Personally I'd just be plugging my PC straight into it, and using it solely for the quest 2. If I go down that route. There again, my PC is in a garden office with a cable to the lounge and modem.

--------------

On the G2/Q2/Index comparison.

Look at the fullscreen comparisons. The blurriness on the edges of the G2 is extremely pronounced compared to the Q2. On the Menu you can't make out the writing on the edges, the trees and wing mirror on the left in the racing is not great either. Same on the text, check the right hand side letter board.

Quest 2 was running at 72hz link cable for most of it too, only the DCS bit was 90hz wireless, not all of it. And the VR desktop guy doesn't even have a headset, Tyriel and another guy are helping him start development, so hopefully there's still a huge amount of improvement to be had there.

 

[aoaaron]

@aoaaron if you haven't already, have a look at the VR oasis video where he tests the wifi link more thoroughly. Granted it's not through the lens footage, but it may change your view on the streaming quality.

He did this with Q1.

Carmack has already said he has no solution to the latency issue and there will always be compromises via wifi.
My own personal experiences with the Q1 echo this.

VR Oasis although being a VR enthusiast with a VR channel, has pretty low standards for VR so I'm not surprised he's blown away from the wifi link.

He has not mentioned the black levels, contrast, colors on the Q2 etc. in enough depth compared to LCD counterparts. I like him but I don't take him seriously for anything more than accessory reccomendations.

He also hyped up wireless on the Q1 too.

Tyriel and MRTV are better although MRTV can sometimes be very sensitive to hype (followed by destroying the headset manufacturer a week later ).

 

[danlightbulb]

Personally I'd just be plugging my PC straight into it, and using it solely for the quest 2. If I go down that route. There again, my PC is in a garden office with a cable to the lounge and modem.

Ah yes I forgot about this option. I was seriously considering the Tomohawk mag x570 motherboard as part of an upgrade to zen 3, which has built in wifi6 at max 2400 mbps speed.

If using that option, would I be able to retain my existing Virgin supplied broadband wifi router, and have a completely separate wifi6 network ran directly from the PC? In this setup, there would be no gigabit ethernet at all in the loop when running pc games - and when the PC was switched off the Quest 2 could connect to the standard virgin router at 5GHz.

Can a PC be connected over ethernet to a normal router and also run its own wifi network off the internal wifi aerial at the same time?

 

[Zeeflyboy]

I now have an Honor router 3 (it came bundled with the honor magicbook pro I just got) but no Quest 2 to test it with

Can't find reference at hand but Occy basically said (might have been Carmack) that if they enable 90hz, it will be a performance mod which sacrifces visual fidelity on the fly to hit the 90hz.
It makes absolute sense. If using 72hz, more available bandwith for better visuals. If using 90hz, less available bandwith. If there was not an improvement with 72hz, I'd be concerned.

Yes, I agree. Add a display port to the Q2 and its value increases astronomically.

Indeed it is logical, but depends on your frame of reference which is why I was interested in seeing the context. We know the Quest 2 should be capable of much higher throughput, so it should be able to manage quality, resolution and framerate improvements all concurrently over the present Link implementation... So I assume that the downgrade at 90hz mode would be relative to 72hz mode on the new link rather than a quality downgrade over the existing link, and how much of an impact it has (whether it is a technical reduction in bitrate or a noticeable one) would be nice to know.

Shame you couldn't get on with the WiFi streaming, it was really quite transformative for me and would be an extremely large factor in my decision to pick up a Quest 2 at some point. I wouldn't pretend that it is not without compromise but I absolutely loved it!

@Unseul again I'd just be careful about drawing conclusions about lens sweet spot specifically from through the lens video. I've seen many that show lens clarity or artefacts to be very different to what you actually observe in headset when comparing to headsets I've owned or used. The guys that I have seen that have had hands on with the Reverb have universally praised the lenses and commented on the pretty much edge to edge clarity. Even if we ignore that and say the TTL vids are completely valid and representative, it is also a comparison between a pre-production headset (in which we know they have since improved the lenses specifically) vs a final shipping product.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

Ah yes I forgot about this option. I was seriously considering the Tomohawk mag x570 motherboard as part of an upgrade to zen 3, which has built in wifi6 at max 2400 mbps speed.

If using that option, would I be able to retain my existing Virgin supplied broadband wifi router, and have a completely separate wifi6 network ran directly from the PC? In this setup, there would be no gigabit ethernet at all in the loop when running pc games - and when the PC was switched off the Quest 2 could connect to the standard virgin router at 5GHz.

Can a PC be connected over ethernet to a normal router and also run its own wifi network off the internal wifi aerial at the same time?

Would you be in the same room?

If your hardware can set up an ad hoc network then yes that would work, not all wifi cards have the option (my X570 Aorus master wifi 6 built in doesn't). You can actually even use "virtual router" software if you wanted to have more functionality.

While you can still set an Ad-hoc network in Windows 10, it is a fair but more complicated than it used to be:

1. Run command line as Admin by right-clicking on the Windows 10 Start button. You should see a bevy of options, including one which is (Command Prompt Admin) – Alternatively, use Win + X to open this directly if you are more comfortable with Keyboard Shortcuts.
2. Click yes to the UAC (User Account Control) prompt that follows
3. In the command line Windows that opens, enter the following command ”
   netsh wlan show drivers”. This command allows you to see if your device can support virtualization or not. If it shows “Hosted Network Supported – Yes” then you’re good to go. (Note: Surface devices do NOT support this feature so if you’re using a Surface – you should probably stop reading here)
4. Enter the following command “netsh wlan set hostednetwork mode=allow ssid= mynetworknamehere key= mynetworkkeyhere ”
5. Once this is done, start the hosted network by entering the following command “netshwlanstarthostednetwork
6. Open the Windows 10 Settings app. Navigate to Settings > Wifi > Network and Sharing center. On the left-hand side, there is an option labeled “change adapter settings” this will open up “Network Connections”
7. Once in the Network Connections menu, you should now right-click your the internet connected device (wifi or ethernet) and then navigate to properties > sharing.
8. . Check the option which states “Allow other network users to connect through this computer’s Internet connection” option, and choose the newly created WiFi connection from the drop down list located under
9. Select your newly created Wifi Network you named in step 4 from the list under the drop-down menu in “Home networking connection”.
10. You should now be able to connect your devices to your Windows 10 PC.

 

[danlightbulb]

@Unseul again I'd just be careful about drawing conclusions about lens sweet spot specifically from through the lens video. I've seen many that show lens clarity or artefacts to be very different to what you actually observe in headset when comparing to headsets I've owned or used.

Definitely. The eyes move remember, minute amounts all the time, and a fixed camera does not. Outside of a very narrow FOV your eyes are actually picking up a lot lower level of detail, and its the rapid movement of the eyes that enables you to create an image. With the camera, you're not seeing this rapidly changing focal point of the eye I believe.

Would you be in the same room?

If your hardware can set up an ad hoc network then yes that would work, not all wifi cards have the option. You can actually even use "virtual router" software if you wanted to have more functionality.

Yes same room as PC when PC gaming. Different rooms potentially if just watching a film or playing something gentle, but the existing 5GHz network I have would work fine for that.

So when I'm gaming on the PC, id be wanting to run a dedicated wifi6 network directly from the motherboard's integrated wifi. I have no experience with network so don't know how to do that, and obviously I don't have the motherboard to try it at the moment. I think i'll ask in the motherboards forum to see who has done it.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

see my above edit for details. Try it when you get the new board.

 

[true_gamer]

I originally owned the G1, but i am now in a situation where the Quest 2 is looking appealing.

My question is, will the link cable cause much compression?

 

[Ravenger]

[

I originally owned the G1, but i am now in a situation where the Quest 2 is looking appealing.

My question is, will the link cable cause much compression?

It's a noticably softer image than a dedicated PC VR headset, and you can see compression artefacts on occasion in dark areas.
It's important to note that Quest 1 is limited to 150mbits/s which limits the quality. Quest 2 will eventually have higher bitrate, resolution and the ability to go 90hz.

However, it will never be as good as a dedicated PC headset with a displayport connection. It just has to be seen if it is good enough - it's certainly an improvement over the CV1, Vive, and maybe the Rift S, but probably not as good as the Index, G1, or G2.

However you can go wireless with Virtual desktop (provided you can get a good enough 5ghz signal to the headset), and wireless PC VR may well be worth the visual quality and latency compromises.

 

[true_gamer]

Thanks for the info. Interesting. I think for £299 it is worth a punt.

Just been watching this, as his reviews are pretty accurate, and he explains a lot about what you have mentioned.
I have a pretty good router (not your usual ISP rubbish) so using 5GHz should be fine for wireless connectivity, otherwise for the likes of ED, I would use the link cable.

 

[Zeeflyboy]

Unless you want the better controllers or to play mobile/wifi link, or perhaps you fall outside the fixed IPD of the G1 I'm not sure it makes any sense to sell it for the quest... do you have issues with the G1 that motivate the change?

 

[true_gamer]

I sold the G1 nearly 3 months ago. So right now, I have no VR. I am in the market to get either the G2 or Quest 2. The reason the Quest 2 is looking appealing is due to the cost, and being able to take it anywhere and connect it to a laptop when on my travels.