Off-grid Solar water heater DIY

Transmission breaker
Don
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20 Oct 2002
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Hi Guys,

With winter coming up, and being that I like a good project, I decided to take a look at how I can reduce some of my energy costs.

I found three options.

1 - Full off-grid solar power

2 - Feed in Tariff type solar power

3 - Off-grid water heating

I ruled out full off-grid as installation costs and materials seem very expensive, and making a saving/return any time soon seemed unlikely after the costs of storage and panels/hardware.

Feed in seems to require specific installers, and this makes it very expensive, not to mention the low amount paid back via the tariffs. Again, making a saving looked a long way out.

Off-grid water heating seemed the most sensible option, as you can use all the power you generate, only power specific devices, and the installation can be much smaller, and augment existing traditional heating.

With that in mind, I looked at the options. We never use out immersion heater in our house, so I though perhaps I could look to power the immersion from the solar. Looked like a reasonably easy way to get the heat into the water.

The only problem is that the heater is 3kv, and as such it will need a hell of an inverter and quite some storage to make it work. So, I decided to look at alternatives. Now the hot water tank takes it's supply from the loft cold water tank. It seems to make sense that if I insulate that tank, and provide it with an aquarium heater (say, 100W?) then any increase in temperature I can get into that tank is less energy I have to actually pay for.

SO, my plan is to use some second hand solar panels, perhaps 2-3, of a rating of above 200W, then run these to charge a 80-100 AH 12v leisure battery, then use this to run a 100w (may change this) aquarium heater in the cold water feed for the hot water tank.

I believe that this will allow the tank to be brought up from around 10 degrees (in winter) to upwards of 20-25 degrees, and as such, this might provide a decrease in energy costs. How much will remain to be seen, but so far, it looks like parts are well under £100 all in (with 3 panels). I have a supplier for the panels ready for me to go and collect, an 85ah battery I am due to collect tonight. Then I just need to check my £5 Chinese solar charge unit is up to the job. Getting the panels secured to the roof might be interesting, but I will work it out.

Has anyone else done anything similar?
 
Associate
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Sheffield, UK
Doesn't feel worth it for £100 imo for what you want to achieve? It costs me about £12 a month to keep the tank hot 24/7 for two showers a day, with average cooking/hob (No CH). I'm guessing hob usage is pretty insignificant to the hot water usage so i'll call it £12 a month to keep the tank hot for 2 showers and taps. Even assuming your system completely replaces gas usage to keep the tank hot, it'll take 8 months to break even on my usage but given your system isn't a full replacement i have no idea how long the pay back is, never mind the effort to get it all working, place to put the panels and equipment / maintained
 
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Man of Honour
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13 Oct 2006
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My grandparents use solar water heating (no electricity generation) and even in winter seems to work fairly respectably which surprised me a bit. (EDIT: They have 3x ~250 watt sized installations and apparently saves a fair bit on the cost of heating water, etc plus 5x 300-400watt electrical solar).

Smaller scale solar setups IMO are only really worth it as a project out of interest and as a way to have some supplementary backup should mains go down, etc. the money savings will largely be small - although I quite like the idea of expanding my system a bit and looking at changing how things work to minimise reliance on mains power, etc.
 
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Soldato
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I did a DIY on grid solar install, panels on veranda (replacing the plastic sheeting that was up there), SW facing and the angle is about 20 degrees from horizontal. You dont NEED to register for FIT, just make sure you notify your DNO.
Somewhere like bimble solar or usual second hand places for panels, anything less than £100 per 250w and your doing okay. Second hand inverter or new is all good. Get one thats the right size, I got 4 brand new 275watt panels for £400 locally, and scored a Growatt 1000s inverter for £100 from an auction, other than that it was mounting rails, cabling and the various isolators (1x DC, between inverter and panels located at inverter and 2x AX, one by inverter and one by consumer unit).
On a bright sunny cool day this generates 1000w AC peak, but this follows a bell curve.. Use PVWaTTS website to calculate how much from various installed kW/directions/shading etc.

This is plenty and knock off the background electricity usage most days, and we were exporting a fair chuck still (normal background usage was about 120w).
Then get a solar diverted, this wires to your main house feed from the grid and measures in or out and how much... And *proportionally* controls your immersion heater (wires between the fuse and the immersion), dumping any spare power that would have been exported into your hot water tank, upto 3kw.

Works well, very well.. And then if you switch something on the immersion almost instantly switches off/down and the generated electricity gets used for that instead.

You generally have a limited amount of space to install panels... so solar hot water if ALL you care about is hot water (as its about 90% efficient) or Solar PV panels if you want electricity AND hot water.. Solar PV is at best about 15% efficient but can serve more than one purpose.

:)

There is some paperwork to install, 16amp and under inverter (AC output, bit under 4kw) you need to complete and submit a G83 form/application. Anything more than that and please just call a pro.

If ANY doubt about your ability get a pro in, it can be very high voltage stuff (some easily over 1000v AND big amps!) so will kill you in an instant.
 
Transmission breaker
Don
OP
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In a house
Great info!
I have found 250w panels with glass damage being sold for £15 each!
Claimed at 80% efficiency from new panels.
I am going to contact the guy tomorrow and arrange to pick some up. Might grab 4 or 5 at that price.
So it is possible to DIY on grid and presumably means I don't need to worry about battery storage?
 
Soldato
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Near Bristol, Uk
Damaged glass - Steer clear. They will not work right and will fail. Broken panels there is a risk of shock as the glass acts as a safety insulator. In normal use/handling the glass wont break, so these have been bumped hard in shipping / dropped.... Buy cheap buy twice.

Good panels with unbroken glass should last a long long time. There are many panels that have been installed for over 25 years that the efficiency hasnt dropped much (think 90% of new). Hence most manufacturers offer a 25 year 80% of new output warranty.

Dont do battery storage unless you have no choice (off grid, or its a small shed light type arrangement), the cost of the batteries and maintenance will never be recuperated with current battery / electricity costs..
 
Associate
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Heating water is very cheap so I cant see the benefit.

My old house I lived in for 9 years had 4 gas bottles to feed the boiler. 1 gas bottle would last from April - November heating water only.
With the heating on it would get through all 4 in a month. A gas bottle was around £45.
 
Joined
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Wilds of suffolk
Heating water is very cheap so I cant see the benefit.

My old house I lived in for 9 years had 4 gas bottles to feed the boiler. 1 gas bottle would last from April - November heating water only.
With the heating on it would get through all 4 in a month. A gas bottle was around £45.

Very odd

Heating water takes a lot of energy, its why a kettle heating just a couple of litres has a 3KW element, if it was 100watt it would take 30 times longer (ignoring efficiency and cooling etc)

Heating air is quite easy, takes quite limited energy, however keeping that air warm when it has so many opportunities to get rid of its heat is far tricker.
 
Soldato
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1 gas bottle would last from April - November heating water only.

So the hotter time of the year, when you dont want steaming hot showers or nuclear hot baths to soak in...

How many bottles did you use over the course of a 12 month period?
How many people was this for? (typically a 1 person working full time household uses lots less hot water than a 2+2 family household)

:)
 
Associate
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So the hotter time of the year, when you dont want steaming hot showers or nuclear hot baths to soak in...

The new proposed solar system is hardly at it's most efficient in winter is it?

How many bottles did you use over the course of a 12 month period?

Lots, but I can't remember how many as after the 1st winter I had a wood burner installed and used that exclusively except for when the fire had gone out and I needed a quick boost from the boiler until the wood burner was up and running. Used to burn wood 24/7 when possible.

How many people was this for? (typically a 1 person working full time household uses lots less hot water than a 2+2 family household)

:)

2 full time working adults.

Once the solar heated tank of free hot water is emptied thats it. No more free tank fulls that day.
 
Soldato
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Near Bristol, Uk
The new proposed solar system is hardly at it's most efficient in winter is it?

True, very true. Today is a sunny day here and we have stuck 0.8kWh into the hot water tank.... Thats about 10p of electricity or about 2.4p of gas... :p

Month to date (so 24 days) its put an average of 0.6kWh into the hot water tank. Different story April-September, we use an average of zero gas... ;) And as the kit has already paid for itself that hot water is free, same for the electricity we use for slow cooking/washing/dishwasher etc. Its an odd feeling have stuff 'on' but not using any electricity, its all self generated.

Next step for us is moving up to a large system, aiming for 4kw on a SW/SE split so we get a longer day generating.
 
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