Ah i missed that over the last few pages
Poll: Official Chinese Grand Prix 2025 Thread - Shanghai International Circuit, Shanghai- Race 2/24
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Ah i missed that over the last few pages
It's any easy google...but if you insist
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Soldato
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They dismissed this even before Sunday, saying they were trying different setups and/or parts for the development of the car.
That's why I wanted your links to make sure we were talking about the same links.
Soldato
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I think Tsunoda would do a better job with it than Lawson would. If he came in and it just wasn't working at all for him, at least we'd all know it's the car, and Max is just great at getting a dodgy car going .
Right now with Lawson, he needs more time with less pressure on his shoulders. I think the swap would be a positive for both careers.
Right now with Lawson, he needs more time with less pressure on his shoulders. I think the swap would be a positive for both careers.
Don’t we already know it’s the car?
It’s hardly a radically different car to last year that Perez was struggling with. Yes, Perez wasn’t a Max level talent but he’s far from as bad as last season made him look. Not to mention in Max’s hands it’s quick but obviously tricky. Lawson is a bit of an unknown and maybe Yuki would do better. But as a reserve, Lawson did jump in and do quite well so casts some doubt about experience.
I think currently the only way anyone does well in that second seat is if they can find another Max but Red Bull seem to only want a second tier driver in that seat so it’s unlikely to happen.
It’s hardly a radically different car to last year that Perez was struggling with. Yes, Perez wasn’t a Max level talent but he’s far from as bad as last season made him look. Not to mention in Max’s hands it’s quick but obviously tricky. Lawson is a bit of an unknown and maybe Yuki would do better. But as a reserve, Lawson did jump in and do quite well so casts some doubt about experience.
I think currently the only way anyone does well in that second seat is if they can find another Max but Red Bull seem to only want a second tier driver in that seat so it’s unlikely to happen.
Or bring back Ricciardo?
He worked ok with Verstappen to a degree, and was able to drive similar set up cars (although presumably the current cars are even more extreme), he knows the team.
When the 2nd car is driving around in 20th place, literally nothing to lose at this point.
It at least wouldn't ruin any further young drivers' careers, who could then slot into the 2026 car which hopefully will be completely different (and you'd hope they'd aim for less on the edge if they want 2 competitive drivers)
Soldato
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It seems that way, yeah. The problem Red Bull have is that they have completely designed their car around Max's driving style and abilities, which is great for giving him WDCs, but means they will never, ever win a WCC until they can find someone who drives the car like Max for the second seat. And it seems no one else on the grid has the same driving style as him, let alone any of the juniors with next to no experience.
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They tried bringing Ricciardo back but he couldn't keep up with Yuki in the VCARB. Frankly, what they should have done is put DR into the Red Bull last year and Liam Lawson in for a full year in F1 before trying him in the Red Bull if DR wasn't able to perform. Leaving a clearly underperforming Pérez in whilst pfaffing with alternatives in the sister team did them no favours.
Caporegime
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I think this is a silly narrative like Max is some sort of driving demi god and he can only drive that car. However he likes his car is irrelevant really. The engineers can setup the car however the other driver wants it. F1 cars have a plethora of setup options to cater for every drivers needs. Newey has always made the car first in his vision then the driver.
When Raikkonen and Massa were at Ferrari they were both at opposite ends of the spectrum with Raikkonen preferring more oversteer and Massa understeer. Yet both of them were more than capable of getting good results with that car because ultimately they were very good drivers.
I think it is a case of the drivers taking the second seat are just incredibly poor. Checo got absolutely battered by Jenson in the McLaren and Lawson has shown nothing. Albon showed his level whilst at RB. Same with Gasly.
We are in a era of extremely privileged young men who are all pretty average. Lando, Leclerc, Russell etc are all a level below Lewis, Max and Alonso.
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Soldato
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The last thing we need is ricciardo coming back. He doesn't have it now.
To be fair, it's not like he's happy with the car either. I don't think Red Bull can change the car characteristics without killing performance, so they're leaning into Max's feedback to get the best out of a bad situation.
Their WCC chances are dead in the water, but still a small chance of a WDC. Probably putting everything into next year.
The issue isn't that the car is set up for Max; it's that it's a truly horrible car to drive and only an extremely talented driver can actually extract the most from it. This has been true for years, but the fact it is not also much faster than the other cars has now exposed it completely.
We've not seen Alonso near Max or Lewis for a long time. I simply feel it's time he moved on.
These current F1 cars are akin to putting 1000bhp into a muscle car in Gran Turismo. They seem to need a lot of finesse to keep pointing the right way whilst trying to find any sort of grip. Throw in the tyre management, fuel management, dirty air, DRS, cooling issues, weather issues and you set yourself up for a tough day in the office. Some drivers can manage it, others can't. This is why even veteran drivers can't just jump in a new car and match their established team mate.
I don't get the sense of a driver being "on it" in these cars as much as the old V8 days. They're always managing something and they look daft when their pace just falls away for no reason becasue some minor variable has changed. I wish they would just them throw fuel and engines at it all and let them go at it. OR maybe bring in a third car each and really see if it's driver or car.
These current F1 cars are akin to putting 1000bhp into a muscle car in Gran Turismo. They seem to need a lot of finesse to keep pointing the right way whilst trying to find any sort of grip. Throw in the tyre management, fuel management, dirty air, DRS, cooling issues, weather issues and you set yourself up for a tough day in the office. Some drivers can manage it, others can't. This is why even veteran drivers can't just jump in a new car and match their established team mate.
I don't get the sense of a driver being "on it" in these cars as much as the old V8 days. They're always managing something and they look daft when their pace just falls away for no reason becasue some minor variable has changed. I wish they would just them throw fuel and engines at it all and let them go at it. OR maybe bring in a third car each and really see if it's driver or car.
Caporegime
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Or simply the drivers being paired with max are just not up to the mustard. F1 is an extremely small talent pool sport that getting real great talent into a seat is becoming increasingly difficult due to costs.
Pay drivers go back to the beginning of the sport but do you think Schumacher's, Hamilton's, Vettell's, Alonso's and Raikkonen's would get the chance to become an F1 driver in todays world?
Soldato
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I think we can all agree on the following:
1. The RBRs are twitchy as Hell and difficult to drive.
2. The above wasn’t as obvious back when the RBRs could be driven at 90-95% and still be way ahead of the other cars.
3. Verstappen, for all his faults is on the same skill level as Hamilton and Alonso.
4. RB is a toxic environment and the team will publicly **** you off if you can’t deliver what they want.
5. RB expects the No.2 driver to be on the money from Day 1 and that isn’t possible with recent RBRs.
With regards to point 5, even Sainz, a good driver, hasn’t got to grips with the Williams yet and I suspect that’s a much more stable car than the RBR.
1. The RBRs are twitchy as Hell and difficult to drive.
2. The above wasn’t as obvious back when the RBRs could be driven at 90-95% and still be way ahead of the other cars.
3. Verstappen, for all his faults is on the same skill level as Hamilton and Alonso.
4. RB is a toxic environment and the team will publicly **** you off if you can’t deliver what they want.
5. RB expects the No.2 driver to be on the money from Day 1 and that isn’t possible with recent RBRs.
With regards to point 5, even Sainz, a good driver, hasn’t got to grips with the Williams yet and I suspect that’s a much more stable car than the RBR.
Seems highly unlikely. I don't think I'd say Gasly, Albon, or Pérez were top drawer but they've proven from their performances since Red Bull that they're not garbage either.
Huh? F1 has fewer pay drivers and more talent based entry than ever before. It's still basically a rich man's sport as it has ever been, but the opportunities for those with talent to get in are better than before due to the rise of the academy system providing the financial backing quality drivers need. And even among those that have wealth behind them, they are required to jump much higher barriers to entry in terms of ability. Even the worst driver to enter the sport in recent years (Mazepin) had to build up Superlicense points.
Caporegime
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Gasly Albon and Perez you are again comparing them to drivers from the current cohort. They would fall quite short compared to some era's of years gone by.
Pay drivers = drivers who have substantial family wealth behind them. Not just paying for their spot.
Lando, Russell, Sainz, Verstappen, Stroll, LeClerc etc.
If the above were in a talent pool the size of say footballers which requires basically zero financial backing they wouldn't most likely make the cut with the exception of Verstappen who is a genuine talent but he is exception to the general rule. Senna was another one.
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