Official Operating temperature of an engine?

What crap service! They wont accept the data given by a diagnostic monitoring feature built into the car!!?? As above not all faults will generate a fault code. Any mechanic who has a clue knows an engine should not operate at 50-60 degrees C! If they wont accept what the car is telling them, how about buying them a thermometer as a present? :)

I'd try getting it to another dealer if at all possible and never going back to this crap one.
 
How did you come to the conclusion that i think the stat is faulty based on my post?

the OP asks about the operating temp of the engine. I have told him the opening temp of his termostat. is that not a good indication of the target coolant temp? what conditions would the water temp be out of that range?

There are two different thermostats, as Fox already mentioned.
 
Ah yes, trying to convince the sales man at a dealership who knows less about what he's trying to talk about than my dear old grandma...

It's incredibly frustrating, modern "mechanics" literally read a number off a screen and if the value has a green light next to it then there is nothing wrong at all. I spent a very long time trying to explain how a) sensors can go faulty and b) they have large tolerances themselves to allow for their inaccuracies recently with VW when trying to diagnose a hesitation on my Passat. They were having none of it, there was no fault code logged, ergo there was no problem, even when I recreated it for their "master tech" while out on a drive, I was told my foot probably slipped on the accelerator.

In the end I figured out the symptoms were very much like a MAF sensor failure, and figured that it could either be the MAF OR the air going in to the MAF. The former is much cheaper to fix, so I checked the air filter which hadn't been changed in 50,000 miles (full VWSH, this is actually correct, they dont change it until 5 years or 60k miles...), £15 later perfectly smooth engine.

All I can say is you are literally speaking to a brick wall if BMW are anything like VW, they are taught that if the completely fallible, mass produced, sensors in their cars say everything is OK then it is, even if the car is on fire in front of their eyes.

All I can suggest is you take it right to the top at BMW and hope they filter down to the dealership to stop being pants, or you bite the bullet and go to an independent and go back to BMW with their findings (they will ignore you and say there was never a problem).

It is incredibly frustrating to be a slightly knowledgeable customer these days...

I recently went back as I suspect the glow plugs are failing (takes 3 burns on a cold morning to get a stutter/smoke free start), this is perfectly normal, they normally go at around 60k I find, but of course they plugged it in, charged me £60 to give me a print-out saying "it's all OK". I even left it overnight and went back the next morning and started it for them, showing the chugging and plumes of black smoke, they just stared and said "yeah that's what they do when cold at that age", I could have literally screamed I was so frustrated. Unfortunately VW bury the plugs under the head cover so a (very) amateur mech like me cant get to them, they would charge £200 to replace all 4 (£80+ labour) and would offer me no guarantee on the work as "they have deemed it was unnecessary so the problem, if there was one, would be something else). Any simple backstreet mechanic would agree with my diagnosis as the more you burn the plugs the smoother the start, they wouldn't even do a simple check of the voltages for me (need to take the cam cover off so I can't do it). In the end I've given up and left it, the cost is too high for me to do it as long as I am trying to keep a full VWSH, I'll just wait till the damn thing finally gives me a glow-plug fault and forces me to limp to them like an idiot.
 
Your thermostat is toast, the temp should get to around 90 or whatever the BMW spec is, within a few miles and stay near enough 90 degrees. I had a duff thermostat on my TT, and the temp would struggle to get to 75 cruising around. When ragging it around, it would get to 90, but then drop down to 75 again when your cruising it again.

Your fuel economy will be hurt by this, as the ecu will richen the mixture to get to the target temp, and oil temp won't be right. Just not good all round.

I am glad this thread has popped up actually because i think my thermostat is starting to show signs of going wrong.

Was that a MK2 TT (with 2.0TFSI engine)? My Octavia VRS's (same engine) temp needle drops a bit below the middle when coasting down a hill for a while(off throttle). As soon as i get back on throttle temps needle will be go back to the middle. I have been monitering the coolant temp in the climate control system and for normal driving the range will be 75-79 which i think is a bit low and should be nearer 90. It doesnt take ages to warm up as It is up to the centre of the gauge in 10 minutes even in all this freezing-3 degree temperatures and when crusing on the motorway at 70mph the temp is normally at 78/79 degrees.

Its not as drastic a problem as the OP's but i think it should be running a little hotter. Maybe it isnt stuck completely open but instead just partially open?
 
[TW]Fox;23837323 said:
There is, yes.

For the stat specifically or just the coolant temp?

Approaching from another angle, could it be the CTS instead? Has MPG dropped at all?

I'm still confused why they wouldn't take this on given the evidence you've given them though. It's just very poor service.
 
I am glad this thread has popped up actually because i think my thermostat is starting to show signs of going wrong.

Was that a MK2 TT (with 2.0TFSI engine)? My Octavia VRS's (same engine) temp needle drops a bit below the middle when coasting down a hill for a while(off throttle). As soon as i get back on throttle temps needle will be go back to the middle. I have been monitering the coolant temp in the climate control system and for normal driving the range will be 75-79 which i think is a bit low and should be nearer 90. It doesnt take ages to warm up as It is up to the centre of the gauge in 10 minutes even in all this freezing-3 degree temperatures and when crusing on the motorway at 70mph the temp is normally at 78/79 degrees.

Its not as drastic a problem as the OP's but i think it should be running a little hotter. Maybe it isnt stuck completely open but instead just partially open?

No mine is a mk1 1.8t. However, the temp should get to 90, then stay between 90-100 ish (dial will indicate 90 between those temps). Around 100 degrees, the cooling fans will kick in, bringing it back down to around 90. If it's going below 90 after reaching it, the thermostat isn't working properly.
 
[TW]Fox;23837323 said:
There is, yes.

I'm not sure there is with the diesels, they are just wax stats unlike the electronic stats now used on the petrols. The engine doesn't know when it should be up to temp it just knows what fuel it needs for the current temp its at.

Both stats will be failed on the 335d and have probably been knackered for quite some time for it to be running that cold and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up with DPF problems in the future. When my EGR stat failed the coolant temp would reach over 82 on a run and they always fail first then the main goes after.

Looking at your first post have you been to the dealership or are you trying to negotiate this over the phone with the dash picture for evidence? I would ask a tech to go out in the car with you after you pull the temp up so he can see that it isn't warming up.
 
For the stat specifically or just the coolant temp?

For the the thermostat itself though Dandle might well be correct in that its only on the petrol models. BMW have been using electronically controlled thermostats on petrol engines since at least the M54 engine.
 
This is a bit silly.
Do they realise that running at 55 will ruin the economy etc?
Theres a reason why thermostats normally kick in around 80c and it has a lot to do with optimum temperatures for engines.
If i was to change my 83c stat for a 75c one that is not an upgrade is it.
Its faulty, It should be replaced for free under warranty.
 
What is the advantage of an electronic one over a passive one?

The reason given is that it it allows the engine to run hotter under normal conditions for economy and emissions purposes. Then when under heavy load, the ECU sends an electronic signal to the thermostat which heats the wax core and allows it to open to cool the engine to below the usual temperature.
 
This is one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of warranties. When I had my Audi TT the DSG gearbox went, it wouldn't change up a gear and the head mechanic agreed that it was faulty after test driving the car with me however the diagnostic computer didn't show a fault therefore the warranty wouldn't pay for it. Because it didn't show a fault I got charged £120 for the privilege of them not diagnosing the fault.

With the Mini the release bearing in the clutch was groaning but Mini informed me that in order to check whether it was going to be covered by warranty that they'd have to remove it and if they then deemed that it wasn't covered I'd have to pay for this plus the time required to put it back together which at dealer rates would've cost over £1000 in total. A good indy would supply and fit a clutch for £500 so that left me in a predicament. Do I just bite the bullet and pay an indy £500 to get a new clutch or take the risk that it will be covered by warranty and let Mini take it apart, but accept that if it wasn't covered then I've just wasted £1000?
 
Meh, rip the thermostat out, buff one side of it so it begins to leak, let them replace a leaky thermostat. No one is losing out in this scenario.

In all seriousness, if you can find some sort of driving faul that relates to a knackered thermostat, then it would make your case easier.
 
I'm not sure there is with the diesels, they are just wax stats unlike the electronic stats now used on the petrols. The engine doesn't know when it should be up to temp it just knows what fuel it needs for the current temp its at.

The ECU in my '99 Saab 9-5 knew when it should have been up to temperature and threw a warning if it took too long. I'm surprised that a much newer BMW cannot do this.
 
...so that left me in a predicament. Do I just bite the bullet and pay an indy £500 to get a new clutch or take the risk that it will be covered by warranty and let Mini take it apart, but accept that if it wasn't covered then I've just wasted £1000?

Well??!! Are you just going to leave us all on the edge of our seats all night?? What the hell did you do?!

:)
 
I know, the point was how do you know that specific stat is causing the problem? If you don't know, what was the point of listing the part number?

Read my reply to Fox, he managed to misread me too

The op asks for the engine operating temp. Ive told him what temp the stat opens

A good indication of engine coolant temp, non?
 
Read my reply to Fox, he managed to misread me too

The op asks for the engine operating temp. Ive told him what temp the stat opens

A good indication of engine coolant temp, non?

You've told him what temp A stat opens but by merely quoting the part no. nobody else has any idea which particular stat on the car you're referring to and if they operate at different temperatures for different reasons then that might be a fairly important detail to include.
 
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