OLED vs Everything else for 24p stutter?

champ222

champ222

champ222

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Hi All

I'm still using a 50" 1080p plasma, but its showing signs of problems.

I'm very sensitive to "judder". Judder is when you play 24p video material (which is usually actually 23.976 frames per second, though actual 24 FPS does exist too) at 60Hz. 24 doesnt divide by 60, so you get "judder". The solution to judder is to have the TV refresh at 24Hz. This give nice smooth motion. Now, its not just movies that are shot a 24p, most TV shows are now too. Pretty much everything modern on amazon prime is shot at 24p, but the fire sticks output at 60 hz :rolleyes:

Anyway, i got around this with a PC running KODI (libreelec) which worked pretty well for downloaded content, but streaming was still an issue. So i bought an Apple TV. Its the best device for proper frame rate matching, so the TV matches the refresh rate of the source, and it all works beautifully.

Now, ive read that modern TVs, in particular OLEDs suffer from "Stutter". This is different from Judder. The cause is playing back low frame rate content, such as 24p, with a very fast response time display. Because an OLED shows the frame so quickly, the time between the frames, about 42ms for 24p, is significant and it stutters. The Plasma i have now, isnt particularly fast, so it just smooths it all out. If i'm sensitive to judder, i'm likely very sensitive to stutter too!

The "solution" to this is to interpolate the frames with various settings on the TV, the downside is "soap opera effect" which makes everything just look weird. The challenge is to find the right balance with the settings, between smoothing out the stutter, and the soap opera effect. My sisters TV looks horrendous because they have all the features switched on. it kinda looks like the video is playing too fast. its weird.

Now, many people are just not sensitive to this. If this none of this makes any sense to you, this is probably you, i'm envious, i wish this didnt bother me the way it does.

Those that do know what i'm talking about, how have you lived with it? have you found a setting that is a good compromise? Are the other TV technologies better in this regard? such as QLED, Mini LED etc?

Thanks.
 
I have a c9 and a c2. I'm sure they both have a setting to solve this (I think the dejuddering is called trumotion, but I know that gives the SOE). I've not tried many 24fps on either of them tbh, but I thought the feature 'held a frame a bit longer rather than adding a black frame. I'll check tonight, but I didn't think stuff on prime actually showed framerate. My C2 gets a lot of youtube (kids watching it), but I assume that's 30fps.

Edit: I googled it and it's called real cinema. Ice not trued it with it off, although I've not noticed and issues, I'll check it on/off tonight and report back.
 
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I have one of the earlier b7 models and like you am sensitive to both, especially the SOE!

In the main you can balance it out with the TV settings and the fire stick 4k max I use lowers the refresh rate to match the content now I believe.

I rarely notice it these days unless it's in a daylight scene with a fly over of buildings or lots of square/rectangular objects.

In truth, I'll think you'll adjust and the benefits far out way the drawbacks.
 
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Thanks guys. Just a bit cautious of spending £1600 - £2000 on a 65" OLED, to be annoyed with it lol. When i could spend less, on "slower tech" and not be annoyed with it... if you get what i mean? Though, coming from a plasma, i guess if i went non-oled, i's be annoyed with the blacks.
 
I am like you OP. Soap opera affect offends my eyes. I notice it instantly when I go round people's houses with nice big TVs. It's just so unnatural and weird. My "solution"? I set my LG CX 65 inch to "off" on the trumotion stuff and live with slight judder. At least it looks more realistic. Rather than on vs off, there are some in between settings on the tru motion stuff. As I recall, one of them is custom, and you can tweak the bar as to how much you want it smooth vs off. I expect somewhere in there probably gives some pleasing results, but I generally just have had it set to off for like...ever. :)
 
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champ222 said:
Thanks guys. Just a bit cautious of spending £1600 - £2000 on a 65" OLED, to be annoyed with it lol. When i could spend less, on "slower tech" and not be annoyed with it... if you get what i mean? Though, coming from a plasma, i guess if i went non-oled, i's be annoyed with the blacks.
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I bought a high end non-oled Sony for a second room and deeply regret it. Wish I'd paid £400-500 more at the time but we live and learn!
 
last TV i bought was 11 years ago... it seems there still isnt "the perfect TV"

i'll likely go OLED then, and try to find some middle ground, or put up with the stutter.

Now to obsess over all the specs and details for weeks on end. :cry:
 
Panel wise my understanding is they're much of a much, the image processing will vary between manufacturers e.g. Sony, Panasonic, LG etc.
 
champ222 said:
last TV i bought was 11 years ago... it seems there still isnt "the perfect TV"
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I don't think so.
I think OLED has been the biggest break through since Plasma technology in terms of delivering proper blacks. Even the best LCD screens were/are always compromised by the laws of physics.
 
I noticed it on some content on my lg c2 but there's a picture mode or setting that solves it if needed.
I really wouldn't worry about it.
 
Most TVs come with their frame smoothing settings at maximum which gives the soap opera effect. Tweak them till it works for you. I have it set quite low at about 4 out of 10 for my TVs. I’ve never noticed any microstutter on any LCD TV I’ve owned.
 
champ222 said:
Now, many people are just not sensitive to this. If this none of this makes any sense to you, this is probably you, i'm envious, i wish this didnt bother me the way it does.

Those that do know what i'm talking about, how have you lived with it? have you found a setting that is a good compromise? Are the other TV technologies better in this regard? such as QLED, Mini LED etc?
Click to expand...

It was funny reading your post as I've been "dealing" with this for a couple decades. On my old CRT monitors I used to use a program to change the refresh rate as close to the 24 to help get rid of the judder. It is much better today where there are a few ways to sync exactly the output from my PC to TV

My test for this used to be Star Wars films when they are in the Jedi Temple meeting room and there is "traffic" panning across in the background but my best test is LotR: Fellowship of Ring at ~7min30s when the map of Middle Earth appears. That's one of the best places I can demonstrate it to people who have no clue as to what I'm talking about.

Currently I'm using KODI on the NVidia Shield Pro.

On the OLED side things have changed over the last few years so that different models have changed in the way they implement it and call it. In the later models it is called Real Cinema but they ultimately do the same thing.

I've found the OLED TV's to be pretty good in this regard so "sufferers" like us are pretty well catered for. Best of luck.
 
MartinPrince said:
It was funny reading your post as I've been "dealing" with this for a couple decades. On my old CRT monitors I used to use a program to change the refresh rate as close to the 24 to help get rid of the judder. It is much better today where there are a few ways to sync exactly the output from my PC to TV

My test for this used to be Star Wars films when they are in the Jedi Temple meeting room and there is "traffic" panning across in the background but my best test is LotR: Fellowship of Ring at ~7min30s when the map of Middle Earth appears. That's one of the best places I can demonstrate it to people who have no clue as to what I'm talking about.

Currently I'm using KODI on the NVidia Shield Pro.

On the OLED side things have changed over the last few years so that different models have changed in the way they implement it and call it. In the later models it is called Real Cinema but they ultimately do the same thing.

I've found the OLED TV's to be pretty good in this regard so "sufferers" like us are pretty well catered for. Best of luck.
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Thanks, hoping the TV will hold out until the new models come out, which should be next month for LG. then hopefully we will see some deals on the current models. a REALLY good deal on a 77 would be nice, they are quite a big jump, price wise from the 65.
 
LG B7 + ATV here.

I turned off TrueMotion, noise reduction, and all that jazz on the TV, and set the ATV to "match framerate", and it completely removed the Soap Opera Effect.
 
champ222 said:
Thanks, hoping the TV will hold out until the new models come out, which should be next month for LG. then hopefully we will see some deals on the current models. a REALLY good deal on a 77 would be nice, they are quite a big jump, price wise from the 65.
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Yes, I've had both 65" and 77" and can't really go back to 65". It will be perfectly fine for many people but I've found especially when viewing 2.35 content that the 77" is much better viewing in my room which isn't big at 5m x 4m.

The G3 in this gen seems to be the one to go for with its MLA technology, though reading the experience on here of people that have both a C9 and a G3 and said that in normal viewing there wasn't that big a difference between them, then I would even look out for good deals on the 77" C2 (even C1) as they will also be a HUGE improvement over what you have now. ;)
 
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