Opera 10 Alpha 1

Seems to be a bit of Opera hate in here :(

The download manager is fine - 1000x better than Firefoxs.
The bittorrent downloader is fine - 1000x better than Firef- oh wait FF doesn't have one
The mail client is fine - 1000x better than Firef- oh wait firefox doesn't have one..
The RSS reader (changed in 10?) is pretty handy as well.

Yes in Firefox you can add download managers. But the point in in opera you don't need to - Opera comes all you need in a box, sensible options with sensible defaults.

The benefit of being able to DL torrents from within the browser is that you don't need to install and configure a separate torrent app.

Same with Mail.

For people that don't get this - use firefox, Opera is not for you.
For people who like to spend as much time setting up and configuring their browser as using it - Firefox is for you.
For people who download a lot of torrents - use a torrentclient like utorrent
For people who need advanced mail handling use a dedicated email client, like thunderbird.

In saying all that, I did use the mail and rss features a lot in opera 9.2x but I found after while it just slowed the whole thing down, there'd be lags when fetching new mail and things etc. Having the built in bittorrent has been really handy a few times for me, if I just need a quick download with out having to pfaff about (especially on someone elses computer)

I like the fact I can just install it and go. where as Firefox I need to chase down a whole bunch of plugins to get basic functionality. Does FF have undo close tab in a basic install? And then I have to choose between about 5 different tab managers, 16 different download helpers etc. Its a major hassle for me. I just want it to work.
 
If "Opera hate" is users saying they don't like a feature and so for them it would be as good chopped out then, er, yeah.

whitecrook said:
The bittorrent downloader is fine - 1000x better than Firef- oh wait FF doesn't have one
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Because it's a browser, not a torrent client? If you want one, there's an extension to add it.

The mail client is fine - 1000x better than Firef- oh wait firefox doesn't have one..
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See before - if you want a suite of apps there's Seamonkey and Thunderbird's the standalone mail client.

The original point of Firefox (though they've wandered away from that now) was that it was a light browser to which you can add features with extensions, rather than the bloated Mozilla Suite of the time.
 
tolien said:
If "Opera hate" is users saying they don't like a feature and so for them it would be as good chopped out then, er, yeah.



Because it's a browser, not a torrent client? If you want one, there's an extension to add it.
Click to expand...

So would you advocate removing FTP support from browsers and insisting that everybody install a separate FTP client? (for example)

Fact is, the capability to download a bittorrent file is really handy, and if you don't like it it can be disabled in Opera config never to be seen again. I'm not usggesting someone uses it to transfer 100 GB of movie torrents, the same way you wouldn't use a browser to manage files on an FTP server. I see no reason to abitarily limit the functionaly in that way.

See before - if you want a suite of apps there's Seamonkey and Thunderbird's the standalone mail client.
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That's what I said, but if you don't 'want a suite of apps' and only require simple email it works really well, and integrates nicely. Notwithstanding the issues I had above, although they may have been due to 'my windows install' rather than a problem with Opera it self.


The original point of Firefox (though they've wandered away from that now) was that it was a light browser to which you can add features with extensions, rather than the bloated Mozilla Suite of the time.
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Yes, having used Firefox since the days of 0.x phoenix builds, moving from Netscape Communicator (shudder) I know, but as you say they have really wondered away fromthat now . I'm sure I even read recently of a proposal for a lightweight FireFox. Anyway, after using FF up to version 2.something I tried out Opera it was no contest for me. I moved to Opera and haven't looked back. I really can't be bothered hunting down features and installing them that should already be there. Different Strokes etc

(by features I don't mean torrent and mail, I mean like undo close tab, the trash icon, session restore, much more repsonsive, ability to open and load multiple tabs at once without locking the browser, better layout of controls, easy to use style sheet chooser, and one that really did it for me, fit to width ,and zoom) Now I know FF3 has rectified some of these. But using FF2 after using Opera seemed like going back in time 10 years.
 
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whitecrook said:
So would you advocate removing FTP support from browsers and insisting that everybody install a separate FTP client? (for example)
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If the FTP support was broken or useless (and from what Marc etc - and they're Opera users - have said, mail and torrents are), sure.

undo close tab, the trash icon
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session restore
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Fx2 does undo, the icon's just a UI for it AFAICS, and it does session restore too.

much more repsonsive
Click to expand...
better layout of controls
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Both subjective - I've certainly never noticed much difference between them unless Firebug was screwing about. You can move most controls about in Firefox too.

ability to open and load multiple tabs at once without locking the browser
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WFM in Fx2.

easy to use style sheet chooser
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Like Stylish?

zoom
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Fx3 does that.
 
To be honest I can't understand why FireFox is such a popular browser. It's a greta piece of software, but so is Opera, yet the market share is so much smaller.
 
tolien said:
If the FTP support was broken or useless (and from what Marc etc - and they're Opera users - have said, mail and torrents are), sure.
<snip>
Fx3 does that.
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I'm an Opera user and I don't feel these are useless things. Guess it's a difference of opinion. As long as you forward your ports BT works well enough to be useful. Although I don't generally use it - i have utorrent installed.

When I switched to opera, FF2 didn't do session restore etc.

Yes, FF3 solves a lot of the issues I had with FF, but now I use and prefer Opera. <shrug>
 
tolien said:
Fx2's done session restore from the start.
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o_O - maybe I switched just before FF2 came out then. The version I was using definately didn't do session restore (without a plugin). It was one of the reasons I decided to switch. It took about a month though get used to Opera - it is different to the mozilla style of brower. Like the way the tabs work etc. And the magic wand is really very useful.
 
MarcLister said:
LeperousDust and I are both keen Opera users. We love Opera. We just can't understand why certain things are done in certain ways with Opera.
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Indeed! Opera really used to be way ahead of the pack, but have somewhat stalled in my opinion. They are no longer "the fastest" which they (and I :p) loved to tout. Chrome and Fx3.1 with tracemonkey etc... will easily take this crown. The installer as they like to point out is small (great?) But it installs so much. You can't deny the mail client isn't a patch on a real piece of software or even gmail for that matter. The same applies for the RSS feed reader, yeah it does a job but not sparklingly spectacular like a separate program or google reader.

Their mail client and RSS reader (and probably torrent client) were leagues ahead of any competition about 10 years ago when they first introduced them. They were good but people who defend them don't seem to have realised whats developed around them.

The quicker opera realise they are not so great and start concentrating mainly on the browser and strip out the mail/rss/torrent client and maybe develop separately the better in my eyes.

Opera still has a few things going for it, as you say you install, and with a few tweaks thats it you're done. Preferences history and bookmarks can follow you around, mouse gestures, decent download manager, session and window restore, speed dial, a FULL MDI (from the start too very impressive) are all in its favour and Fx generally needed to have extensions balanced on top to compete. Theres surely more i've missed like completely comprehensive extensive shortcuts to just about everything and full cross platform compatibility including mobiles (where bookmarks and speed dial can still be shared).

Opera has a lot to offer i think they've just got a little crowded in the dev room :p
 
reflux said:
To be honest I can't understand why FireFox is such a popular browser. It's a greta piece of software, but so is Opera, yet the market share is so much smaller.
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Extensions and much better publicity efforts are the two factors which have helped Firefox to beat out Opera, if you ask me.
 
Mattus said:
Extensions and much better publicity efforts are the two factors which have helped Firefox to beat out Opera, if you ask me.
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That and Firefox has a wider appeal. Easier for the Average Joe to get into. Whereas if you look at three of OcUK's Opera evangelists (moi, LeperousDust and Greenlizard0) you'll find we are all at the top of our game and bloody good chaps into the bargain as well! :D:cool:

I think Opera needs a more advanced user than Firefox.
 
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