It's easy for toss to get into diamond, this is true. We've had zergs to beat up on, and there's a lot of hopeless terrans out there. It's a lot harder for toss to get to the TOP of diamond that's for sure, because the semi-competent terrans of the world have worked out what the a, and h keys do.
**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****
- Thread starter mohawk
- Start date
It's easy for toss to get into diamond, this is true. We've had zergs to beat up on, and there's a lot of hopeless terrans out there. It's a lot harder for toss to get to the TOP of diamond that's for sure, because the semi-competent terrans of the world have worked out what the a, and h keys do.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,007
- Location
- Liverpool
Yeah I agree it's pretty balanced.
Same for terran, its hard for terran to get to the top at least against semi-competent toss and most zerg players I meet are just plain bad, there is a tactic that destroys mine but none of them use it.
This is ridicules guys.
yeah terran needs to "jump through hoops" to defeat usually same old toss ball, what your point?
This is ridicules guys.
yeah terran needs to "jump through hoops" to defeat usually same old toss ball, what your point?
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,007
- Location
- Liverpool
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,007
- Location
- Liverpool
I was joking.
Probably not no. It's good to learn what the units are, and to learn basics, but it will not help you with actual strategy against a a live breathing human.
There's no substitute really, to just playing a live game. But by all means ensure you understand the units, and what buildings each unit requires and the impact of the various upgrades.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,007
- Location
- Liverpool
But yeah all I'm saying is that I think MMMV is a little too strong and effective in too many situations. The other 2 races need the highest tech possible to fight against it (hence why TvP is considered terran favoured in the early/mid and protoss favoured in the late game when the high tech kicks in) and even then will struggle if they make any sort of micro mistakes. I think it's fine that one race can have map control for most of the game, from the pro level broodwar games I watched it was pretty much impossible to move out early against zerg. That's fine, all races can't be the same. But I don't like how terran bio is super effective all throughout the game, no matter what happens in SC2.
I wonder if making dark templar tech available much earlier would help, i.e. add another opening to the protoss arsenal to keep the terran honest.
If terran blindly opens 3 rax into 5 rax with reactor starport, and the protoss goes with a dt midgame, it's going to end in tears for the terran.
Right now dt tech is too 'cute' to be a serious build. If it was quicker to get it could provide a viable alternative to robo play. Terrans have scans so they aren't completely at the protoss' mercy. But it would certainly contain them until the midgame if they didn't scout or went too aggressive with barracks units.
The idea being not to give protoss an 'i win button', but rather to add a set of variables to the mix that terrans have to keep in mind when choosing their strategy. Basically like protoss and zerg already have to do v t.
If terran blindly opens 3 rax into 5 rax with reactor starport, and the protoss goes with a dt midgame, it's going to end in tears for the terran.
Right now dt tech is too 'cute' to be a serious build. If it was quicker to get it could provide a viable alternative to robo play. Terrans have scans so they aren't completely at the protoss' mercy. But it would certainly contain them until the midgame if they didn't scout or went too aggressive with barracks units.
The idea being not to give protoss an 'i win button', but rather to add a set of variables to the mix that terrans have to keep in mind when choosing their strategy. Basically like protoss and zerg already have to do v t.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,007
- Location
- Liverpool
I agree. I've been a supporter of the idea that the dark shrine and templar archives should be combined for the longest time. I even asked Dustin Browder if it would ever happen during that live interview with random internet people a few months ago. He said he wants SC2 to emphasize on scouting a lot so if you get the chance to see something you should be able to defend against it, and combining the two buildings would be too ambiguous. I disagree with that entirely though. Seeing a templar archives and having to put up extra detection really isn't a big deal - if you see a templar archives warping in you have more than enough time to get turrets up or start a tech lab on your starport if you don't have one. Or simply save a scan.
I've not played any live ladder matches at all. I decided to learn Zerg to begin with via playing Hard AI. It really wont help you learn in the mid/late game, but I've found it very helpful to sort my early build order and get a force up for the early harass that the AI's always do.
With that i now have a great understanding of Zerg build orders, i can hold my own against quick harass, and i know most hotkeys.
As i said a few pages back if any new players want to practice together add me and we'll play. Always nice with no pressure and giving each other hints. Been doing that with a friend who's trying new builds and it's great for us both.
Add Ward.311.
Scott, for goodness sake same for terran if terran makes a micro mistake he'll lose.
You said mmm is strong all game, your "mmm" is strong all game too toss has "mmm" its core army stalekrs zealots sentries.
Besides remember game we played when you said damn rax units too cost effective, I had 2/2 upgrades you had none, thats why they were so effective.
Terrans have to pump up their units, terrans have to tech a lot too. Ficefields in early game is strong that it nulifies "terrans superiority" in early game. besides in early game + stim life doesn't come back, we don't have medivaks yet, 2 stims wasted and your army will roll terran ones with no problem
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Sep 2006
- Posts
- 5,007
- Location
- Liverpool
Ok then I'm wrong. It doesn't matter what I think anyway.
After the current tourney I'm switching to Terran full time. I'm fairly shocked that a terran player is actually arguing his race ISN'T OP?
Nerusy try this, try attacking with your marine marauder ball, before the protoss gets charge, storm, and collosi, k? congrats you're now quite high in diamond.
Marauders trash stalkers (bonus to armoured) and you claim you need loads of micro? so 1a, stim, and typing gg requires a lot of micro now apparently. great. In that case players like HuK must be friggin mega gosu if they (heaven forbid) have to forcefield, guardian shield, blink, storm, etc. Until zealots get charge, with some basic micro ie pull back and shoot and repeat you trash zealots pretty easily.
protoss macro consists of this: w, zzzsssee.
terran macro consists of this: 4, ddddaaaa
most terran players actually admit there is something wrong with the game at the moment. You call it "toss elitism", most people call it balance. If you saw my post a few pages back about oGsCool thinking about rerolling terran, and look at the post above mine, a great player like kar wants to switch to terran a normal person would see something is a bit off.
Personally, i'll never switch race since I personally find terran an extremely mundane race to play. If blizzard can't patch fast enough and the game descends into everyone rolling terran then i'll simply play something else. It is getting a bit worrying though, today I played vs 8 terrans in a row, 1 zerg, then 3 more terrans. hopefully that was just bad luck
edit: oh and I read the bit about if the terran makes a micro mistake he loses...like I said earlier there's no micro for you to make a mistake on so you don't need to worry about it. Just don't do anything dumb like engage 1 unit at a time and you'll be fine.
Nerusy try this, try attacking with your marine marauder ball, before the protoss gets charge, storm, and collosi, k? congrats you're now quite high in diamond.
Marauders trash stalkers (bonus to armoured) and you claim you need loads of micro? so 1a, stim, and typing gg requires a lot of micro now apparently. great. In that case players like HuK must be friggin mega gosu if they (heaven forbid) have to forcefield, guardian shield, blink, storm, etc. Until zealots get charge, with some basic micro ie pull back and shoot and repeat you trash zealots pretty easily.
protoss macro consists of this: w, zzzsssee.
terran macro consists of this: 4, ddddaaaa
most terran players actually admit there is something wrong with the game at the moment. You call it "toss elitism", most people call it balance. If you saw my post a few pages back about oGsCool thinking about rerolling terran, and look at the post above mine, a great player like kar wants to switch to terran a normal person would see something is a bit off.
Personally, i'll never switch race since I personally find terran an extremely mundane race to play. If blizzard can't patch fast enough and the game descends into everyone rolling terran then i'll simply play something else. It is getting a bit worrying though, today I played vs 8 terrans in a row, 1 zerg, then 3 more terrans. hopefully that was just bad luck
edit: oh and I read the bit about if the terran makes a micro mistake he loses...like I said earlier there's no micro for you to make a mistake on so you don't need to worry about it. Just don't do anything dumb like engage 1 unit at a time and you'll be fine.
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2006
- Posts
- 2,323
The only imbalance in my opinion is early Terran vs Zerg(hellions,reapers before the patch)and late Zerg vs Terran(Ultras+BroodLords).Everything else is balanced,if you believe that everything is imbalanced then switch races/stop playing,complaining won't help you.
Really?!
To be honest I want to switch to Terran not so much because of real (or perceived) balance, but just because they have so many fun builds to play with.
Terran actually seem to have the most interesting units to play with. Banshees, hellions, ravens, thors practically everything has a special ability and can mix nicely with other units. Like battlecruiser marine rocks for example, the battlecrusier soaks the damage, the marine deal it. Raven marauder - the raven locks everything down the marauders clean up the mess. So many random unit comps can be made viable. Protoss, basically you need stalkers + zealots + sentry + some kind of area of effect. Take just one of these out of the composition and the whole mix falls over.
Anyway, I've played 1000 odd games with Protoss in the Beta and now Retail and it's time for a change.
I'm pretty sure Terran (and probably protoss too) will get nerfed again in a future patch. (I kinda wish Blizzard would buff stuff instead of continually nerfing) But the issue isn't so much balance. It's just the sheer number of viable builds Terran have available. Never mind actual unit composition and balance, they seem just more fun to play.
Last edited:
Have you played terran at diamond leven boy or at least at plat? No, then keep your worthless opinion to yourself.
We'll see what kar thinks about terran, and if you have not read, he said terran actually needs to be able to micro well.
You whinnied about t op but actually you lost because of your poor play remember, a lot of players do that too, the word is terran op then if I lose it must be because its true.
Try playing terran at diamond level then tell me you don't need micro.
Besides we're talking about toss vs terran not terran vs zergs, that's a whole difference topic.
Now keep out of conversation since you only spew out same old misguided view.
You're in plat...and so arrogant...and sure that you are right...boy keep your mouth shut from now on about terran vs toss.
Last edited: