Overcoming fear - 100 stranger's project

An Exception · 25 May 2012 at 18:33

D.P. said:
TBH (I will give my personal and unsweetened opinion here because I know you can handle my criticism),
This photo does absolutely nothing to me in the slightest and I find it utterly boring. It is a random stranger that is smiling to a random photographer after being asked to have their photo taken. Who cares. I have zero connection to that scene, I don't feel any story, I am not emotionally involved with the photo, I am not left wondering what was happening, who that person is, what they were doing, what are they doing now, what were the dynamics at the time the photo was taken. It is empty.

Obviously I respect your opinion, but just to let you know, I booked a wedding yesterday. During the meeting the couple were not interested in how long I'd been shooting, the equipment I use, what my package offered etc. instead they jumped strait into how I would shoot the wedding, what aspects of the wedding did I think were important to cover, they said as soon as they had seen the pictures on my site, the contract was as good as signed, and that they especially liked my portraits, describing them as 'beautiful'.
I asked if they could remember any in particular that they liked, and the picture above was one of the images mentioned.
I'm not saying my pictures are anything special, but they were to them, so it's funny how opinions ect. can vary dramatically.

D.P. · 25 May 2012 at 19:05

As I said, you took those photos and they have value to you in part as mechanism to advertise your business. They are very nice portraits and it is easy to understand that a couple looking for a wedding photographer would appreciate such work and would want similar high quality photos for their wedding. It is important to realise that a wedding is very different to candid street photography, even strict Photojournalist wedding togs will usually have some posed scenes and portraits, e.g., exiting the church, some group shots.

If that photo was hung in a gallery to sell I wouldn't buy it. A coffee table book of such photos still wouldn't raise any interest. If I wanted a wedding photographer and I looked at such portraits I would definitely consider you.

I am not all all saying that is is useless to ask peoples permission and then take their portrait. But it just doesn't make interesting photos for me and it takes less skill and patience than getting a god candid street photo. Taking a good portrait photo as you do does indeed take skill but you have much more freedom in composition, positioning, lighting, multiple takes, and you are not reliant on other subjects in your scene, an interesting candid shot may arise rom the juxtaposition of certain elements that are so aligned for a brief moment in time- you can't change lenses, you only have 1 go, you can't think about compositions t has to be be an inherent and fats judgement, you often can't reposition yourself, or add a fill flash etc. As I said, i have not manged to get 1 single portfolio quality shot form a candid street scene in many years. It takes a lot of time and patience.

An Exception · 25 May 2012 at 20:01

D.P. said:
an interesting candid shot may arise rom the juxtaposition of certain elements that are so aligned for a brief moment in time- you can't change lenses, you only have 1 go, you can't think about compositions t has to be be an inherent and fats judgement, you often can't reposition yourself, or add a fill flash etc. As I said, i have not manged to get 1 single portfolio quality shot form a candid street scene in many years. It takes a lot of time and patience.

I agree, and I do also really enjoy those pictures, it's just I hardly ever see those shot's posted in forums (obviously for good reason as they are hard to capture), instead I only see these excellent examples posted when I question the interestingness of street photography.

Also I dislike how some 'street photographers' are overtly aggressive, which I don't see in other types of photography...

jonneymendoza · 25 May 2012 at 20:23

D.P. said:
TBH (I will give my personal and unsweetened opinion here because I know you can handle my criticism),
This photo does absolutely nothing to me in the slightest and I find it utterly boring. It is a random stranger that is smiling to a random photographer after being asked to have their photo taken. Who cares. I have zero connection to that scene, I don't feel any story, I am not emotionally involved with the photo, I am not left wondering what was happening, who that person is, what they were doing, what are they doing now, what were the dynamics at the time the photo was taken. It is empty.

Technically, it is great and I see she is really enjoying her photo being taken, and you have produced a photo of value to yourself in gaining experience and perhaps advertising your business.

Most of my landscape photography falls the same way, I am just as critical of my own work as suffering from a lack of power, story, meaning, emotion, thought provocation.... But they make some nice photos for myself to enjoy and capture my holiday memories, I even make some beer money on the side.

If your photo was printed on A3 canvas and hanging in a gallery i would walk right past. If it was for sale I wouldn't think for 1 second about buying it. Now Rojin's examples strike a lot of interest and I am off goggling the photographer.

to YOU it may not have any meaning/feeling but to the person who spoke to that person and took that shot certainly did!

photography is not all about what YOU and otehr viwers think

Columbo · 25 May 2012 at 20:57

D.P. said:
What is the connection between a random photographer and a random stranger?
What is the interest of the context when a random photographer asks a random stranger permission to take a photo?
What is the purpose of a random photographer taking a photo of a random stranger after asking their permission other than to get a photo that has some value to the photographer?

Well by simply talking to a stranger and asking them if you can take their shot photo you immediately have a connection.

The interest to me personally is that not only has the tog had decency and gonads to ask but that people who do-not know you re willing to to be a part of it.

The purpose is obviously different for every photographer but this type of shooting is very rarely just a point n click walk about.

Personally to me, it just means more than simply pointing a camera at someone drinking a coffee or doing their shopping without their consent or knowledge.

Again there is no right and wrong to this, its just personal preference all the way down the line.

Rojin · 25 May 2012 at 21:02

An Exception said:
You don't need to ask anyone to pose, just create an emotional response to get a true genuine reaction...

Check out the crows feet, you can't fake that expression...

Ultimately you create your own story by your actions in the interaction.

It's a nice portrait but there is no story other than you have asked a random (I'm sure you didn't stop her because she's pretty?

) stranger to pose for a photo. There's nothing there to make you consider the photo further or imagine a story. It's a nice shot that worked for you as a business tool.

jonneymendoza said:
You wont get any meaning shooting random people just walking in front of you.

That is the point some people are saying. if you are focused on taking people shots, its best IMO to ask them permission, take there shot and have a chat with them if permitted.

It has much more involved then just firing away taking shots on people walking down the street. anyone can do it. thats not poper street photo imo.

proper street photo is taking a picture in the street that tries to tell a story and has good composition, the people, lamp posts, cars, etc etc are all proops that you can use together to create that shot.

Stopping people in the street for an impromptu portrait isn't street photography in my opinion. The only story there is exactly what it is, someone has stopped to smile for the camera when asked. The interest becomes the technical competency of the photo. Which is no bad thing but it's a different beast to observational street photography. Of course you can add interest by having a theme running through the project to give social context perhaps?

jonneymendoza · 25 May 2012 at 22:07

Rojin said:
It's a nice portrait but there is no story other than you have asked a random (I'm sure you didn't stop her because she's pretty? ) stranger to pose for a photo. There's nothing there to make you consider the photo further or imagine a story. It's a nice shot that worked for you as a business tool.

Stopping people in the street for an impromptu portrait isn't street photography in my opinion. The only story there is exactly what it is, someone has stopped to smile for the camera when asked. The interest becomes the technical competency of the photo. Which is no bad thing but it's a different beast to observational street photography. Of course you can add interest by having a theme running through the project to give social context perhaps?

Yea i agree in a way.

Back on topic
i just took 2 out 3 people's pics today asking them

Was nervous first time round as expected but after the first person said yea, attempted 2 others within minutes later. last person rejected me. no biggie, she was not rude tell me to **** off or anything lol so all is well and not down beat at all.

quite a fascinating experience actually and really enjoyed the 3 encounters i had.

i am processing the images now and will upload them to my flickr later.

Clown · 25 May 2012 at 23:03

Now is later.

Dunks · 25 May 2012 at 23:07

jonneymendoza · 25 May 2012 at 23:22

Paul11 · 25 May 2012 at 23:24

i think what clown is trying to say is "where are the photos you are going to upload"?

jonneymendoza · 25 May 2012 at 23:30

Soon lads.. They Aint nothing special!

Raymond Lin · 25 May 2012 at 23:53

jonneymendoza said:
Hi all. i am a massive fan of this type of photography and always wanted to try it myself!

Well today i tried and failed to even ask a single person! i was out in the nice warm weather today around brick lane in london and failed to even attempt to ask anyone due to fear

How can i overcome this fear? how did you in effect break that mold and ask your very first person if you can take their picture?

Putting aside all the talk above of what constitue street photography and back to your topic of overcoming the fear.

Tip no.1 - Don't be shy about it. If you don't feel confident, PRETEND !
Tip no.2 - Hold the camera in your hand, front and centre. Don't hide it, embrace it, let your subject see it.
Tip no.3 - Ask!

When you ask, introduce yourself, tell them your name and be direct. You don't need to give them a backstory as to why you want, if they say yes, then great, if not, move on.

jonneymendoza · 26 May 2012 at 01:32

I managed to take 2 out of 3 people i asked.

here are the results.

My first - Renee by jonneymendoza, on Flickr

Portrait #2 by jonneymendoza, on Flickr

My aim is to encounter 100 people for this project! Hope it all goes well!

3rd person who rejected me i did not feel sad or anything and if i diddnt have to rush back home, i would have stayed around looking for more people to interact with!

Raymond Lin · 26 May 2012 at 01:46

I think projects like these are good to get your confidence, not really great in terms of getting things for your portfolio, with few exceptions.

There are 2 problems mainly.

1 - the people being asked are all too often vanilla. They are your every day ordinary person. Like the ones posted so far, its just a girl in the street. I don't see her life story from her face, I don't feel happy for her, sad for her or any emotions towards her. I don't know her story nor am intrigue to find out more.

2 - They are people of our own culture. In terms of human nature, photos are more interesting and intriguing when they are from another background. Whether they are more privileged or less well off than us. When they are "in the middle", we are less intrigued. If the subject were say really rich or famous, seeing a picture give you that window into their life, a life that you want a slice of. If the subject is for example, a homeless person, his face will reflect that with all the dirt, the tiredness and stresses which shows in a face which accumulates all the above on a daily basis and you feel sad for that person which hopefully your photo could capture a tiny amount of that story. A bit like this guy http://500px.com/LeeJeffries

So, if you want to do street photography, portrait style. Find someone either REALLY attractive or really ugly. Plain semi attractive people are dull, dull, dull.

An Exception · 26 May 2012 at 06:42

Raymond Lin said:
Putting aside all the talk above of what constitue street photography and back to your topic of overcoming the fear.

Tip no.1 - Don't be shy about it. If you don't feel confident, PRETEND !
Tip no.2 - Hold the camera in your hand, front and centre. Don't hide it, embrace it, let your subject see it.
Tip no.3 - Ask!

When you ask, introduce yourself, tell them your name and be direct. You don't need to give them a backstory as to why you want, if they say yes, then great, if not, move on.

You forgot to smile, it makes a big difference to the reaction you get...

An Exception · 26 May 2012 at 06:59

Rojin said:
It's a nice portrait but there is no story other than you have asked a random (I'm sure you didn't stop her because she's pretty? ) stranger to pose for a photo.

No I stopped her because she was pretty, I think this was my second trip into town that day, and the more you do it the more your confidence builds, as the first few of the day are a little timid/nervous.
I called across the street "excuse me.. Im doing a project.." and then she cut me off and shouted "yes" so I was pretty much good to go...

I started off at first chasing randoms (not that I'v done it often), as a way of not backing out approaching people and adding a bit of variety.
Then you get bored and approach people you like the look of, whether they be pretty, gothic, old, groups of friends etc...

The only thing I haven't got much of is the gritty stuff, but I don't see much if any of that around where I live, or around Oxford, but then I don't really know Oxford that well...

jonneymendoza · 26 May 2012 at 11:11

Raymond Lin said:
I think projects like these are good to get your confidence, not really great in terms of getting things for your portfolio, with few exceptions.

There are 2 problems mainly.

1 - the people being asked are all too often vanilla. They are your every day ordinary person. Like the ones posted so far, its just a girl in the street. I don't see her life story from her face, I don't feel happy for her, sad for her or any emotions towards her. I don't know her story nor am intrigue to find out more.

2 - They are people of our own culture. In terms of human nature, photos are more interesting and intriguing when they are from another background. Whether they are more privileged or less well off than us. When they are "in the middle", we are less intrigued. If the subject were say really rich or famous, seeing a picture give you that window into their life, a life that you want a slice of. If the subject is for example, a homeless person, his face will reflect that with all the dirt, the tiredness and stresses which shows in a face which accumulates all the above on a daily basis and you feel sad for that person which hopefully your photo could capture a tiny amount of that story. A bit like this guy http://500px.com/LeeJeffries

So, if you want to do street photography, portrait style. Find someone either REALLY attractive or really ugly. Plain semi attractive people are dull, dull, dull.

i fully agree with this mate and i will try and look for more interesting people to take a picture of. Please bare with me that this is the very first attempt at it so i need to do it in steps i.e yesterday was all about building the confidence to even approach A person.

i still need to build that up a bit more as i go along and then work on my communication.

The first picture i could have easily stayed and chatted to her longer as she was very open and was not in a rush but i was

The second person i met seemed to be more in a rush though and i will echo the quote below this. SMILING does help big time as the 2nd person did have second thoughts and the wya she was about to answer me i was actually expecting a no but i think because i was polite and smiled, she said yes in a kind of bizare look at me

An Exception said:
You forgot to smile, it makes a big difference to the reaction you get...

As noted above your post. smiling does help. even the 3rd person i asked said no but smiled back at me.

jonneymendoza · 28 May 2012 at 19:04

Hi all. just a small update really. i have not fully overcome my fear yet as today i had about 5/6 people to approach and only approached one person out of the 5/6 i wanted too and that person said no as she was outside her work place and was just taking a break before heading back to the office.

i guess it will take time for me to be "fully" confident in myself to approach all the potential targets i wish to photograph.

The weird feeling is that i am more gutted at not attempted all those other people i wanted to photograph then the woman who said no.

An Exception · 28 May 2012 at 19:40

The fear never goes away for more than a day or so, but as you get better, you learn to trust your skills more, then once you get warmed up, the fear subsides.
I asked a stranger/marshal at the weekend if I could take his portrait, strangely because everyone else had a camera, I didn't feel any fear whatsoever...