Overheating Watercooling loop? - Please Help

[SkittlesRandom]

Hi All,

First time poster on the forums but long time lurker.

I have recently decided to take the plunge and build my own watercooling loop after many years of building pcs on air and having a room that heats up like an oven. The issue is my GPU is currently running what i believe is way too hot for a water cooling loop.

My PC specs
CPU - AMD 3950x - PBO on no other overclock

GPU - Asus Strix 2080ti OC Edition
Overclock settings for GPU via MSI Afterburner
Core Voltage - +0
Power Limit - +125
Temp Limit - 88C
Core Clock - +175
Memory Clock - +1000

RAM - Corsair Vengance - 3600MHZ

Motherboard - Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite

PSU - Seasonic SSR-850FX FOCUS Plus Gold 850W

I have currently in my loop (im pretty sure this is overkill but wanted to be sure)
2x EK-CoolStream Classic SE 360
6x EK-Vardar EVO 120S BB (700-1150rpm) Running at 100%
1x EK-XRES 100 Revo D5 PWM (incl. pump) Running at 100%
1x EK-Velocity - AMD Nickel + Plexi
1x EK-Vector Strix RTX 2080 Ti RGB - Nickel + Plexi and EK-Vector Strix RTX 2080 Ti Backplate - Black

I have my loop order of Pump/res > GPU > Radiator > CPU > Radiator > Pump/res

Before the loop on air my temps were
CPU ran 75-77C under full load for 15 mins with an NHD15 with fans fixed to 70%.
GPU ran 75-78C under full load for 15 mins with stock cooler set to 70% overclock has been stable for around 3 months with not issues or changes to the above temperature.
First Loop attempt
CPU ran at 70-72C under full load for 15 mins
GPU ran at 87C constant and thermal throttled I stopped the test after 5 mins
Currently with my loop my temps are
CPU runs 70-72C under full load for 15 mins
GPU runs 78-81C under full load for 15 mins
When both ran together under full load for 15 mins the GPU runs at around 83-85C and the CPU runs between 78-81C

Initially I thought the issue was poor paste spread on the GPU, so i removed the water block and confirmed that this was not the issue but i believe that i hadn't had enough mounting pressure as the thermal pads looked untouched on the GPU.
I removed the old paste and reapplied some more in the same method as previously done and made sure to tighten the screws harder this time using the provided screws and plastic washers.
I did the same for the CPU and removed the old paste and reapplied new and re-tightened.
Both paste spreads fully covered both the IHS on the CPU and the entire chip on the GPU.

Tested again and as you can see above the temps are better but still are running awfully hot I believe.
Is there any suggestions as to what may be the cause of the issues and if so any advise would be amazing, im really out of ideas as to what could be the issue.
Or am i just expecting to much out of the loop and it should be that hot?
Loop picture below

Thanks all,
Josh

 

[SkittlesRandom]

First thought would be the pump not moving water around effectively. Quick check to feel the radiators during load. If they feel hot then you know the pump is moving water around otherwise could be a dodgy pump.

Hiya,

Just did a quick check and both radiators are defo hot to the touch

Ta,

 

[SkittlesRandom]

GPU only I would say wrong screws used to fix the block. May not few loose, but not enough contact to work properly.
CPU can be the protective film still there (yes, happens), but harder to get a poor contact, opposed to the GPU.
I would first make sure you're using the correct ports as in/out. Not much of a difference, but may cause some performance impact.
Fittings: I decided to go with the ones from EK, as I was able to see that any fitting with thread longer than 5mm would stick out of the designated threaded area and, again, restrict waterflow.
Running the pump at 100%, only when trying to get rid of air bubbles. I've noticed a marginal loss in performance, as the coolant pass too fast. Mine stays at 3 out of 5. No noise, more than enough flow.

I thought it was the same when I first fitted the gpu block so checked and double checked and made sure i used the correct provided screws for the GPU.
The CPU i removed the film on the block when originally fitted.
I have tried running the pump from 60% to 100% and the difference in performance is very marginal indeed for me too.

Basically heat emitters staying hot means either:

a) poor transfer to the blocks
b) poor transfer to water (caused by low flowrates)
c) poor transfer to the air (low fan airflow)

You need to isolate the possible issues.

1) use a cpu load tester (e.g. Prime95) to test the cpu cooling.
2) use a gpu load tester (e.g GPU-Z) to test the gpu cooling.

If one overheats but the other does not, then you may have a poor mount on the overheating component. Check it again.
If both are overheating it is unlikely that both are poorly mounted.This suggests either pump or fans. If you can feel air through the radiators, then it is more likely to be the flow.

Flow isn't simply caused by the pump. Does it have manual speed control? Check it is on the highest setting.

Assuming the pump is on full flow, you may have a blockage or pinchpoint somewhere.

I have tried CPUZ as i cannot get Prime95 to run for some reason and this after 15 mins has topped at 72C
I have run GPUZ after this and after 15 mins has topped at 63C
I then ran both together straight after these tests and the GPU went to 65C and CPU 75C

Not sure why these results are so different for the GPU, To test load before for GPU I ran conan exiles in an area i know is basically maxing out my GPU before and the temps are so different, could this mean its an issue with memory maybe as im guessing a game would put more load to the memory compared to a GPUZ?

When it comes to airflow i can barley feel the airflow of the fans behind the radiator at the front of my case and the top the airflow is rather slow too, so is it possible the fans are not high enough RPM for the radiator thickness?

The pump is on 100% via the BIOS as its PWM controlled and see no other way to change this, I have also checked for pinches on the pipes and nothing can be seen and the water looks clean when watching it move around the system and inside of the water blocks.

When trying again with conan after these tests the GPU went to 78C and CPU was around 62C

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Got same pump/res combo
That pumps definitely up to the job even if it was at 50% should be ok
Are you getting an actual RPM reading for the pump?
My gtx1070 is only 45c to 50c under heavy gaming load as a comparison point

My RPM shows at 4750 on the BIOS but this does change up and down slightly

pure and simple your ek vardar fans arn't running fast enough, you should be aiming for at least 1500 rpm, for optimal performance you should be looking at fans around 1750-2200rpm, the heatoutput from you components at stock is around 550w of heat, the se rads you have are able to cool around 420w of heat each but thats with fan speeds in access of 1850rpm.

you should be able to feel airflow from the rads a good few inches away, if you dont the fans arnt pushing enough airflow through resuting in you loop getting really hot to the point of shutdown or the pipes could blow off whilst the pc is on, if that happens it'll be a very bad day.

i'd say it's your fans that are the problem as loop order isnt really going to affect temsp that much, have a look at faster rpm fans

After a few messages from you amazing guys i think that sounds like the issue to me also, the airflow i feel is so low that its not right IMO and i should probably go for faster fans as a test at least?

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Think I ran cine bench though may have been r15
The idle should be around 30c plus or minus a bit depending on ambient temp
Though obviously it's load that's important
That's a really good pump/res combo far as I am concerned since got one
Myself so can't see that being an issue
As mentioned 1150rpm is a little low to some but again ek vardars are good I can't see it being those after all point of watercooling is to be cooler but at less noise
Main thing is your gpu seems to be more of an issue than the cpu
Did you definitely bleed all the air out?
No flow meter?
Or didn't try bit of dye dripped into reservoir to see if it shot round the loop properly?

I made sure all the air has been drained from the loop, i have moved it around and ran it on a separate PSU when fitting to ensure it was running with no leaks before powering on so no bubbles in any blocks and the res is almost completely full and this level has not changed since fitting.
I do not have a flow meter but i did try the dye trick and zipped down the tube with no issues at all.
Its defo the GPU that is of the main concern, this is connected to the rad at the top of my case, my thoughts after reading all of your guys comments is that as the airflow is too low, the fans mounted to the front rad is not able to blow through enough air to get fresh air to the top rad to blow through and cool the GPU? Is that the right line of thinking or am i talking out my rear end?

 

[SkittlesRandom]

if you have no airflow going through the case to push out the heat then the gpu and cpu are going to rocket up temp wise, dont forget at full chat a 2080 ti has 250watts minimum heat output if that heat inst expelled from the rad it will quickly heat up the loop and thus the cpu will run hot

Sounds like the low RPM fans may not be up to snuff then possibly?

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Air flow will always make a difference certainly but at the same time a good loop should not sound like a jet engine either
Are you pushing air through radiators or pulling it through?
Never actually seen a scientifically based post on this so I could also be talking out my rear end here lol
But I prefer to push air through if possible ~might make no difference but pictured in my head it works better
And you can't test without your gpu just to see how cpu only fares since no integrated graphics and pain to take gpu out
I used some quick disconnects so can isolate cpu and gpu from rest of loop so can remove without draining down

I am pushing air through both rads, had an issue with my old NHD14 when pulling air it sounded awful so always push through heatsyncs and radiators nowadays

i'd say so bud, one thing you could try is reversing the fans on the front of your case, instead of intake have them expelling heat out the front of the case, if your temps drop slightly it will mean the heat isnt going into the pc, yes it will get hot but ther should be a small diffrence in temps.
in that case then faster rpm fans will be needed for better cooling.

do you have a rear exhaust fan installed?

I do not have a rear exhaust fan installed as had an issue with tubing clearance and thought that the airflow from the others would be enough :/

I may give that a go, I also have high RPM fans that were previously installed in my case but these where airflow fans and not Static pressure, is it worth trying these just to see. Obviously i would replace these once i prove this was the issue?

Forgot to ask
You are expelling the air through top rad?
Not drawing air in?

I am pushing air from inside the case out through the top rad and out of my pc

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Ideally should have a rear exhaust
Mine is there though not turned on but if needed it can be
My case has very good air flow though and plenty places air can escape

Did we actually ask what case you are using?

Oh sorry i completely forgot to mention that, i use the silverstone pm01
Normal airflow was always really good when using all my components on air to be honest, i did remove the mesh air filter on the front as it was making a rather annoying turbulence noise.

i only asked about the rear exhaust fan as that will help remove some heat from the interoir of the pc, but if you have pipes in the way then it's not going to be possble to install one there, as before though if you opt for faster rpm fans then the rear exhaust wont be needed, just need good airflow through your case

Ah okay, I could maybe fit a thin one in but if having higher RPM fans sorts the issue then may not worry for the time being

 

[SkittlesRandom]

your case the pm01 is the front pannel completly mesh or has it got a glass/plexi front?

Its the one that is completely mesh on the front and then a second dust filter that i have removed as i clean my pc quite often so would rather have the more airflow and less noise

It would be this one https://www.overclockers.co.uk/silv...gaming-case-black-sst-pm01br-w-ca-437-sv.html

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Are you able to borrow or repurpose some higher rpm fans to test with ?
Rather than paying out for them
Not saying it won't help though may be at the cost of more noise
But we are talking needing a drastic drop in temps if I remember how hot it was getting
It's hard to think that you really have so little air moving as to account for that much temperature difference

I can try the old 120mms that were in the case to start with, it wont be ideal but they go to 2500rpm so would defo be able to test airflow

 

[SkittlesRandom]

if the case has a full mesh front then airfow into the case should be very good, at this point i'd say its the fans, they simply arnt fast enough

Yeah, i think you all may be right, simply too slow to push enough air through the radiators
I will try my old fans and see how that goes and if its better then ill but some noctuas more than likely as they are well worth the money IMO.

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Thanks a lot all, i will post my findings tomorrow and let you all know whats happened

 

[SkittlesRandom]

not to be funny but you did wash out the rads first ? could be as simple as blockage on the blocks ..or pump
with the thickness of those rads cant see static pressure being a problem ..

I did yeah, loads of crap came out of them which i was kinda surprised about considering they are tested and new :/

High static-pressure fans on the rad (Corsair SP series, Akasa Viper or Piranha for eg) and get a rear exhaust fan in there- can't see one on your pic.
I'm thinking it's lack of case airflow, pure and simple.

I have now added a rear fan as suggest by a couple of chaps and will see if this improves, my old fans that i was going to swap out to test are only 1200fpm fans so i don't think that would make a blind bit of difference so i have ordered some new ones with a bit more umph and will test

 

[SkittlesRandom]

i forgot to ask but what are your idle temps under water?, you mention load temps but not idle

also just to check what method did you use to apply thermal paste to the cpu and gpu, its best with 3rd gen ryzen to apply paste and use a old card to completly cover the ihs, same thing goes for the 2080ti, the whole core needs covering, if you used a pea sized amount thats not enough

I originally applied a pea size to both CPU and gpu but when I reapplied both thermal pastes yesterday i spread the thermal paste evenly with a scraper on both CPU and GPU, CPU temps remained the same and GPU temps did improve but still stupidly hot.

with regards to your old fans you could install them on the otherside of the front rad, a push pull for testing may improve temps and you'll see how much heat is being dumped into the rad my your components.

which fans did you end up buying?

I have just purchased some 6x Arctic P12 PWM PST as mentioned by a previous chap in the thread, they are relativly cheap and have good reviews, if they do the job brilliant if not, no real loss

 

[SkittlesRandom]

i forgot to ask but what are your idle temps under water?, you mention load temps but not idle

also just to check what method did you use to apply thermal paste to the cpu and gpu, its best with 3rd gen ryzen to apply paste and use a old card to completly cover the ihs, same thing goes for the 2080ti, the whole core needs covering, if you used a pea sized amount thats not enough.

when you took the gpu block off first time around was the transfer of thermal paste equil on the core and the block its self?

My idle temps are 28-30C for the GPU and 39-42C on the CPU, my room temperature is currently 26C

 

[SkittlesRandom]

if your idle temps are that low it's got to be down to fans, if your idle temps were high then i'd say the blocks were mounted incorrectly, but a gpu idle temp of 30ish is perfect, tbh the cpu is pretty good too idle

Thats good news at least, hopefully these fans sort all the issues, I will admit after installing my rear fan after some wiggling it does seem to have helped my GPU temps by around 10-15C or so, which is insane so must prove it to be an issue with airflow to be saving that much heat i couldn't believe it but have been using the pc all day on games that caused temps of 81C before and now not going above 66C and my CPU is also cooler at around 59-62C.
Turned the fan off and temps back to as they were before in about 20-30mins, back on and lowers to the above temps again after 30 or so mins.

The liquid in your loop and the copper/brass in your radiators should provide a large amount of thermal mass. This means every joule of energy given up from the CPU and GPU will contribute to less temperature rise (compared to a smaller thermal mass like less liquid).

What I'm getting at here is that it should take minutes, maybe even tens of minutes to heat soak your liquid and radiators up to, say, 50°. That's a 25 degree increase from ambient. Components will then have a delta over liquid temp - GPU is usually only a few degrees but CPU can easily be 20-30° over liquid temperature, under load. Meaning 50° water would give maybe 70-80° CPU temp. If you're finding temperatures rise to maximum faster that, something is up. Regardless of overall cooling capacity (defined by radiator area, fan speed and airflow/temperature), there should be some inertia on components temps.

Also, new radiators need cleaning. Some people have experienced some brands coming fairly clean out of the factory. I wouldn't take the chance, there's always some kind of crud to flush out

The temperatures take around 15-20 mins to reach maximum temperature and it is a slow build not a idle to max instantly.

I cleaned the radiators before fitting and these were clean with only a few particles present, which i was surprised with.

heres the thing .. the rads are what 20-25mm thick ? static pressure should not be a problem ..
mine are old and nearly twice as thick and I run vardas on them at 12-1300 no probs with temps ..
I'm going to stick with a circulation problem. idle good temps .. when you stress them how long does it take to heat up ?
in hw info tdie should hit 50 and climb slowly
cpu temp itself should rise very slowly .. if both are hitting limits after 10 sec i's not fans .. the water would not have reached thermal limit yet

The temperatures take around 15-20 mins to reach maximum temperature and it is a slow build, there is an initial spike and then it slowly builds up to max temp.

Did you take the cpu block apart? The plate inside of the wrong way round will reduce flow by about 90%. Had it happen to me and got similar results to you.

The Cpu is not really of concern as it is warm but well within margin for error i believe and i think the improved airflow should fix this, also i did not take the CPU block apart as it had the correct AMD plate preinstalled with a pretested label affixed to the block. My main worry is the fact my GPU is running around 30-35C hotter than other 2080tis on similar watercooling loops, when checking the instructions and the block itself there is no designated in or out unlike what can be found on the CPU block

 

[SkittlesRandom]

Did you say both rads are blowing air into the case? I'd so I'd change it to front in and top out. Will definitely improve airflow

Top rad and 3 fans are exhausting out of the case, front rad and fans are pulling air into the case

 

[SkittlesRandom]

So thank you everyone for the help you have been awesome !!

I have fitted my new fans today on both my radiators and the issue has been resolved my GPU now peaks at 49C and my CPU now Peaks at 61C after a 30 min stress test on both

Such an easy fix but silly on my part, thank you all again and this thread can be closed

 

[SkittlesRandom]

nice glad to see the cooling issue has been resolved, just out of intrest what rpm's are the new fans running at?, gpu temps are very good and your cpu is cooler than mine!

I'm running the artic fans I purchased at 80% which shows in the bios as 1500rpm and they are very quiet and also the pump at 80% too I cannot hear them at all with headphones on and defo cannot hear them when playing any game

Really happy to hear
And you weren't silly at all you used the exact fans EK website says to use with those radiators
And we live and learn now we know for future that even though EK recommended those they are more suited to a set up with additional intakes and exhausts obviously

Yeah for sure, I think the fans as a push pull on each radiator would work very well and very quiet too.

One of the issues with fans and radiators is that they don't exist as an isolated pair - they are (usually) in a case with additional filters from the case itself. So the Vardar fans might be great with those rads on their own but when put in your case, they have clearly struggled to achieve the necessary airflow.

If the intake fan/radiator combo can't pull in air, then the airflow is not just compromised on that radiator but also on the second one which is trying to exhaust air from a case that doesn't have any. It is always beneficial to have stronger fans on the intake rad than on the exhaust rad. Positive case air pressure stops air being sucked in thru anywhere but the intake fans and makes life easier for the exhaust fans.

Now that you have temps under control, try turning off that rear exhaust you added before and see if it is making any difference. IME, it reduces case pressure which makes the exhaust rad fans less efficient and encourages air to be sucked in though unfiltered case gaps.

Okay cool, I'll try that for sure as less dust and negative case pressure the better and it may even help performance not having that fan interfere with the top rads flow, thanks for the suggestion I'll let you all know how it goes