Overpaid wages

[House]

I would imagine that it would be in both your interests to sort it out within the tax year.

People saying go to ACAS or your union, pfft its a simple issue with no real disagreement that can be sorted out with a conversation with HR/managers and you them want to declare war?

 

[Ryan-3]

That’s a bit rich coming from you, I doubt the business practices of you and your “mates” are squeaky clean based on your past posts around scamming the public and providing tips on how to defraud the furlough / eat out schemes

Those schemes get you much better machines at pouring beer or cutting hair than the average man can afford...

I'd ask to sit down (or however it would be carried out in this climate) with whoever is dealing with rectifying the mistake to work out how it will be dealt with. Then you can see whether it could be a wage reduction over the next few coming months or if paying the amount owed back, and how to, was the only option for the mistake.

 

[Lopéz]

If they went down a disciplinary route they'd also have to apply at least equal strike against those in payroll who's job it is to know more and check their work. If they didn't do that then it would seem they're dishing out discrimination and legal guidance should be sought.

They wouldn't. The legal system does not work on an "eye for an eye" basis.

 

[thenewoc]

They wouldn't. The legal system does not work on an "eye for an eye" basis.

I think an employment tribunal would beg to differ if those that are trained for it to be their job to know how to administer people's payroll have made the mistake and gone unpunished to at least the same level as the recipient of the mistake. It shouldn't come to that if both sides are reasonable but I can't see an employment tribunal finding in favour of the employer if they were to take action against an employee which can be shown to be disproportionate to that they've taken with the originators of the mistake.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

That’s a bit rich coming from you, I doubt the business practices of you and your “mates” are squeaky clean based on your past posts around scamming the public and providing tips on how to defraud the furlough / eat out schemes

It's obvious stuff. People will do whatever benefits them.

It's already been found that eat out and furlough has been abused by loads some idiot who owned 20 Papa John's which is takeaway only abused the eat out scheme yet it was for sit ins.

He got caught because it was so obvious. However many who have half a brain won have.

The point still stands. Everything I've said is correct.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I think an employment tribunal would beg to differ if those that are trained for it to be their job to know how to administer people's payroll have made the mistake and gone unpunished to at least the same level as the recipient of the mistake. It shouldn't come to that if both sides are reasonable but I can't see an employment tribunal finding in favour of the employer if they were to take action against an employee which can be shown to be disproportionate to that they've taken with the originators of the mistake.

Payroll will likely be largely automated especially if it's a large company.

The duty of care is on the employee I'm afraid. They need to ensure their wages are correct and raise to HR immediately.

It sounds as if HR eventually found the issue in the first place if they hadn't this could have gone on for decades.

All they need to do is pay it back asap and within this tax year. It's only £500 not £5k.

 

[thenewoc]

Payroll will likely be largely automated especially if it's a large company.

The duty of care is on the employee I'm afraid. They need to ensure their wages are correct and raise to HR immediately.

It sounds as if HR eventually found the issue in the first place if they hadn't this could have gone on for decades.

All they need to do is pay it back asap and within this tax year. It's only £500 not £5k.

I disagree, the onus is on the company. Just because computers are used to automate something they still have to be set up and someone entered the employee's salary incorrectly. You can't prove an employee on the recipient side knew anything about it but their must have been a process or communication to someone to set up the salary to whatever figure it was so they are guilty of the mistake.

 

[Lopéz]

I think an employment tribunal would beg to differ if those that are trained for it to be their job to know how to administer people's payroll have made the mistake and gone unpunished to at least the same level as the recipient of the mistake. It shouldn't come to that if both sides are reasonable but I can't see an employment tribunal finding in favour of the employer if they were to take action against an employee which can be shown to be disproportionate to that they've taken with the originators of the mistake.

It wouldn't go to tribunal anyway. If the employer takes steps to reclaim the money that the employee hasn't agreed to or isn't happy with, it would need to go to court. Salary deductions following overpayments are specifically allowed in the Employment Rights Act (Section 14 if you're interested)

 

[thenewoc]

It wouldn't go to tribunal anyway. If the employer takes steps to reclaim the money that the employee hasn't agreed to or isn't happy with, it would need to go to court. Salary deductions following overpayments are specifically allowed in the Employment Rights Act (Section 14 if you're interested)

I didn't say they weren't allowed, but if hypothetical disciplinary action were to be taken and it constituted their last warning and thus dismissal followed then the individual would be right to take it to an employment tribunal. As I said it should be possible to avoid such animosity building if both parties agree a sensible repayment schedule.

 

[Lopéz]

I didn't say they weren't allowed, but if hypothetical disciplinary action were to be taken and it constituted their last warning and thus dismissal followed then the individual would be right to take it to an employment tribunal. As I said it should be possible to avoid such animosity building if both parties agree a sensible repayment schedule.

Well that's quite a lot of "Ifs" away from the actual situation the OPs partner is in now.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I disagree, the onus is on the company. Just because computers are used to automate something they still have to be set up and someone entered the employee's salary incorrectly. You can't prove an employee on the recipient side knew anything about it but their must have been a process or communication to someone to set up the salary to whatever figure it was so they are guilty of the mistake.

It depends. Some places the employee inputs their hours and over time. Usually goes to a line manager for approval but after that it's paid.

We don't know how their system is set up so for all we know it could be their mistake or a typo by hr.

 

[mattyg]

If they took the £500 in one hit would it take her to under min wage.
That they cannot do

 

[thenewoc]

It depends. Some places the employee inputs their hours and over time. Usually goes to a line manager for approval but after that it's paid.

We don't know how their system is set up so for all we know it could be their mistake or a typo by hr.

Agreed it could be either way but it sounds like it was their salary that was set up wrong or a component of their package such as London weighting since it's been going on for some time and a relatively small amount per month.

 

[thenewoc]

Well that's quite a lot of "Ifs" away from the actual situation the OPs partner is in now.

Yes but presumably if the recipient was going to object to the extent of not accepting a disciplinary strike against their record, it would escalate to some form of arbitration or ultimately a legal defense.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

If they took the £500 in one hit would it take her to under min wage.
That they cannot do

How so?

She's been paid too much minimum wage doesn't come into it afaik

 

[tlrBeta]

Being overpaid wages and not declaring it to HR is a disciplinary offence in some places.

Also if you don't have £500 in savings for emergencies like this what would you do if your car, boiler, TV, oven or shower broke?

It's £250 each shouldn't be too hard to cough up. Then you have learned a valuable lesson to put money away just in case.

This a pretty inconsiderate reply. You really think everyone notices £30 a month?

If my company I worked for came asking for £500 immediately, I still wouldn't be inclined to pay it back immediately even with some rainy day funds and being a salary employed. That's before we even think about the covid impact, Christmas and/or other events.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

This a pretty inconsiderate reply. You really think everyone notices £30 a month?

If my company I worked for came asking for £500 immediately, I still wouldn't be inclined to pay it back immediately even with some rainy day funds and being a salary employed. That's before we even think about the covid impact, Christmas and/or other events.

Most people are saving several hundred per month thanks to Covid.

They are still employed.

I wouldn't notice £30 a month unless I checked wage slips which I do so I would notice an increase or decrease and then try and work out what caused it.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I'd like to see what your employer has to say about that.

Like I say it's usually a disciplinary offence not to report being overpaid.

Also paying it back over time is an administrative nightmare. Especially if it straddles 2 tax periods.

Maybe they could meet in the middle but £30 a month isn't on. That would take nearly 2 years to pay back.

I'd say bare minimum £125 a month to have it paid by march. That's minimum. Any more and it straddles another tax year.

Total nonsense in regards tax.

Its irrelevant if it covered 100 tax years as long as the employer has collected and paid the correct taxes on the remuneration that matches the periods in which they were paid.
There can be some issues on VERY large amounts clearly not paid on time which are clearly mean't to impact the revenue, but even those are very rarely progressed since its very rare that the specific date something must be paid is ever contracted.
Every year for example I can delay my annual bonus from March to April, we allow this and the revenue have no issues. Some will do so in order to change their annual tax exposure, pension contribution limits etc.
Its well publicised that when tax changes employers actually bring forwards or defer large amounts to another tax year for the benefit of their employees. You can find numerous articles in the press from the last time the highest PAYE tax rate changed.
The revenue refer to this since they can see unusual large amounts mvoing forwards or backwards as a result of the change (see tax briefing notes published on the cashflow section when these things are announced)

Its generally a contractual term to inform your employer should you KNOWINGLY be overpaid. Whether that is a disciplinary and whether the employer could make it stick very much comes down to whether the employer can prove knowingly or not.
If they can prove knowingly then then can take the defraud the employer angle. It very rarely happens as the employer is deemed to be the expert and the employee not in these cases, and as such the expert is expected to be able to deliver higher standards than the non expert.
Something you clearly shouldn't get such as say sales bonus if your shop floor, or overtime when your not allowed to nor did you claim it, can be argued to be knowingly aware if they are material enough to clearly have triggered vastly different net pay amount.
Many people will not check payslips and Ive seen a case where this was accepted as reasonable defence.

Its actually fairly normal for a payment plan to be suggested to match the amount of the overpayment. So if they over paid by £50 a month then they will deduct £50 per month.

 

[HungryHippos]

OP if you have the money just let them take it. If you don't have the money then follow alternative ideas with the HR dept.

No point making a big deal if you are sitting on enough savings to settle matters.

 

[Semple]

I'd like to see what your employer has to say about that.

Like I say it's usually a disciplinary offence not to report being overpaid.

That's likely to be an impossible thing to prove.

Especially in the OPs case as he says his other half's pay varies. It's also quite a trivial amount each month, i imagine most people wouldn't even notice.

Obviously different story if your employer had paid you your annual salary in a month, then it's pretty obvious you'd know about it, and failure to declare probably could warrant disciplinary action.

@OP you don't have to agree to pay back the £500 in one go, especially if it puts you in hardship.

But obviously the money does have to be paid back, and you can't also take the **** by offering to pay back £1 a month.