Overtime in small firm

Telecaster

Telecaster

Telecaster

Soldato
Joined
17 Jun 2012
Posts
5,951
What is the opinion of overtime in the forum's opinion, is it purely down to employees desire/availability or are their other considerations?

I don't earn much, so overtime to me is barely worth it, in fact when I do agree to it then it's purely just to help out the firm not for self interest, if left to me I'd just do my basic hours as OT makes me hardly anything worth bothering with.

I already do 10 hours a week unpaid, so to get into OT I have already done 50 hours, so to me I'd rather have my weekends to myself, but then the boss is getting jobs and asking for weekend work- like this week I had to work late Fri because the job couldn't start until after 14:30 and then it needed finishing off today (Sunday) same deal, after 14:30 until finished.

I only agreed because we're a small firm and if I didn't do it then there wasn't anyone else to do it, in which case if I'd refused presumably he would have had to cancel the job which doesn't do us all any favours in this climate when work is slow.

I'm not lazy and already go above and beyond during my regular mon-fri working week including no proper break times or lunch breaks, 2 hours a day unpaid, very short notice long distance travelling and staying away. I don't seem to see much benefits in return for putting myself out, I was always lead to believe hard work was the key to getting on, but it's never done me any favours as people just seem to take you for granted and keep taking more.
 
You've not really explained how this overtime works - why do you do 10 hours unpaid each week if overtime is available? How does the overtime get calculated if they're not counting those hours?

Is what you call overtime coming in at a weekend? And so you get extra for that but your hours during the week aren't monitored thus you end up working longer during the week unpaid?

If you don't think it is worthwhile then ask for more money for coming in at weekends? Is there a bonus scheme - if not then ask for a bonus. If you're paid an hourly salary then I'd not worry so much about the extra hours during the week so long as they take care of you in terms of annual raises each year and bonuses.
 
We don't get annual raises or bonuses.

Overtime is either in the week or weekend.

The 10 hours a week unpaid is because I'm a mobile worker with no fixed base/office so the boss classes an hour each way unpaid. Overtime is basically anything over my 8 hours in the week (10 hours in reality once this 2 hours is taken into account). So when I do a 13 hour day door-to-door I get 8 hours+ 3hours at OT rate (13 hours -2 hours) which I think is time and a quarter or time and a half, I'm not sure.

Like I said, I don't really want the OT, I'd rather not be doing regular 13/14 hour days, or if I have to then I'd want to be paid for the full 13/14 hours, but if he did that he'd probably go under in a few months.
 
Telecaster said:
If I had any qualifications or skills I would, as it is I'd probably only get something on min wage or similar.
Click to expand...
That's not true. You have enough skills to get your current job so you have marketable skills and experience that other companies would likely be interested in. If you want another/better job then you can get one. In fact I'd argue that you;r ein a great position because you don't have a lot to lose but a huge potential future in front of you.
 
I didn't have the skills to get my current job, boss is a family friend of sorts and just set me on as a 3 month trial a few years back, I'm just time served with no qualifications. Not much call for that these days, people want the right bits of paper not people who can do the job.
 
There are still companies and bosses that do want people that can do the job and not just the paper. You've just got to learn to sell yourself.

Some people have all the paper in the world but can't sell that to others and are forever underemployed.
 
Telecaster said:
I didn't have the skills to get my current job, boss is a family friend of sorts and just set me on as a 3 month trial a few years back, I'm just time served with no qualifications. Not much call for that these days, people want the right bits of paper not people who can do the job.
Click to expand...
In the past I've been on recruitment panels for large companies (100k+ staff). While it's true they do want a minimum qualification and I've only interviewed people who get through that first process, I've rejected high fliers in favour of more down to earth people for their get up and go attitude. I'm sure smaller companies, without the HR team sifting CV's, would consider you if you present yourself right (including on the application). Once you get that experience then qualifications are irrelevant.

If you live anywhere near London or Surrey I'd be happy to meet up to coach you. You would be surprised just how many skills we all have that we simply don't realise.

The world is out there. You can get whatever you want if you are willing to try and more importantly if you realise what value you bring.

I left school with A Levels, didn't consider university, and am now earning way, way above the average even in the South East. My brother left school with no qualifications and started work in a newsagents. He is dyslexic, colour blind and asthmatic. But he now earns over twice what I do. Do not think for one minute that qualifications are the only way of achieving what you want. They certainly help but they aren't the only way. Look around at the most successful people and you will realise a bit of paper wasn't th largest factor in their achievement.

The biggest blocker to success is your own mind. The biggest factor in your success is... Your own mind.
 
Moses said:
If you're on low pay anyway, working unpaid could take you under the minimum wage you're supposed to be getting. HMRC would take that seriously/you can report it and they'll be careful so as to not drop you in it.

Then with overtime, if you have to do it then they have to give you holiday pay for it... if they don't want to do that then it has to be voluntary and you're within your rights to turn it down. Obviously it's awkward to have to say that, but it's either say something or get taken for a ride. And obviously there's the working time directive - if you've opted out of it you can take that back - which stops them being able to make you work ridiculous hours.
Click to expand...

I can confirm the interest HMRC would have in your situation.

We recently had them in as they are auditing a lot of call centres.

They were even interested in knowing if there was any instruction.from management or any policy that said an agent had to be sat down in front of the PC before their allotted shift time.

If so they would have added that to the agents working hours to decide if there was an issue with minimum wage.
 
Telecaster said:
We don't get annual raises or bonuses.
Click to expand...

ask for one, at least re: the raise

The 10 hours a week unpaid is because I'm a mobile worker with no fixed base/office so the boss classes an hour each way unpaid.
Click to expand...

I'd deffo seek some advice here re: the link mattyg has posted above and also Moses's advice re: whether you're forced to do overtime/holiday implications.
Do check re: minimum wage/possibility of reporting to HMRC if you're low paid too.

citizens advice could be a useful place to start https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk
 
The 1 hour unpaid travel each way isn't uncommon, we had it in my last sales role but I'd just plan the day so that I always had a localish call for start / finish to get around it. Not possible in most roles though and if forced to do it I would have left a lot sooner than I did.


You probably won't get anywhere fighting it as the cost will be taken from you elsewhere, best to find a new role.
 
Yeah that's pretty much how most of us see it, he will get it back elsewhere.

We can't organise the jobs in any other order apart from most urgent first, we do try to get them in area groups but it's not very often, I regularly do 300+ miles a day driving and that's just to get to/from the bloody job, never mind the work on top.

In my mind we should only either do our 8 hours door to door or he pays us whatever hours we work door to door. I don't leave the house at 5am because my first job is 2.5 hours away just for the fun of it, that's purely for him so IMO we should be paid for it all.
 
If you have no fixed work address / office then your work hours are counted door to door when you leave home and arrive at home so if this is 10 working hours for 8hrs pay then this must still work out above minimum wage spread over the 10hrs

If its does work out over minimum wage then he can do it and then its upto you if you accept working conditions or not afaik

Also you should be getting minimum 20mins break if shift is 6hrs or more, potentially extra breaks if a lot of driving involved as well maybe 15mins break per 2hrs driving would be good practice etc

Problem is employers will take the p as much as they can and pocket all the profit themselves, or the business isn't viable if he cant afford to pay the going rate but he is keeping it going by taking the p etc
 
Telecaster said:
Not much call for that these days, people want the right bits of paper not people who can do the job.
Click to expand...

That's a pile of **** (in the nicest way)

I've got GCSE's from 20 years ago, got a few NVQ's in warehousing etc but for the last 2 roles I've had ZERO qualifications. I teach myself in my spare time, I make contacts, I see what skills are needed and sell myself.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, you're undervaluing yourself, I know a number of people on decent salaries with no or poor formal qualifications.

Just from what you've stated in the OP you could use at an interview to show where you've gone above and beyond for example.

One thing for certain though, you need to speak up for yourself and challenge your employer on current conditions, whether they're a family friend or not.
 
I just don't like being "that guy", the one in every firm that always rocks the boat and says no when asked to do stuff outside of regular hours, because everyone just hates him.
 
Well there it is, you're far too worried about how you appear to others rather than worrying about yourself. I actually respect those who can say no, there's nothing commendable about hanging around doing unpaid work, especially in an unskilled low paid job.
 
Just searched for same jobs out of interest and the first one read like this;

"The role will pay up to c£32k per annum (depending on experience) working a 40 hour week (door to door pay), together with a 5% performance related bonus per month. Other benefits include a company vehicle, fuel card, phone, tablet, generous pension, other bonuses and company share scheme. There is also standby allowance and potential overtime which will increase the overall package. As part of the role you will be required to be on call out one weekend on four."

That is dream land compared to where I work, sadly I don't have the qualification they require.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom