Paedophile hunters

rofl christ, "GUARDIANS OF THE NORTH" seem to be another one with loads of vids on youtube,


Whilst I'm not defending the paedophiles, who obviously need to be dealt with, this lot come across like a bunch of swineherds with an axe to grind.

From watching a couple of videos - they're publicly naming and shaming individuals, wrecking their lives instantly without being subject to any burden of proof, any checks or information sharing between any agencies, ok - they claim to have chat logs - may be true, may not be true, but I as a viewer have no idea.

It may well be true that these individuals have committed, or conspired to commit terrible things against children, but who's willing to sit back, relax in the knowledge that these guys are right 100% of time, what happens if 1 in 10 times they're wrong, or make a misjudgement..?

Lets not forget, the police don't normally publicly name and shame anybody, until they've been charged - groups like this are essentially acting as judge jury and executioner, by acting like this, insta-ruining people's lives in 5 minutes, guilty until proven innocent.
 
All looks/sounds/smells like the thin edge of the wedge here.
Looking past what they are doing, who they are catching, at the end of the day they are vigilantes. Any notion of innocent until proven guilty is thrown out of the window the second they post online their "catch videos".
Despite being told what they are doing goes against the law and they should stop, they simply haven't and now the police tell us they might instead, effectively, back them.
So why stop there? Lets go out on a good old "criminal bashing spree"? Lets find, who we believe, to be criminals and go and give them a good old kicking? As long as we continue when we are told not to, then the police will just side with the vigilantes again?

If these groups want to be involved then let them. However as soon as the online conversations have reached a certain point they should be handed over to the authorities.
 
I don't like the miss appropriation of the word paedophile as most of these sting operations seem to be aim at underage grooming, but not prepubescent grooming.

To imply these cases are paedophilia is perpetuating the inappropriate use of the word. Now don't get me wrong these crimes are bad, but real paedophilia is a whole other level of wrong. The media as a whole are just as bad in doing this.

I guess "under age groomer hunter" doesn't sound as good, doesn't flow off the tongue. :)

My other concern if they pick a target that has other mental issues they could endanger themselves.
 
Efour said:
Entrapment.
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Terrible film.

The problem with these groups is that they take action without knowing all the details, and could be compromising other investigations as a result. They don't have the facility to do checks or properly investigate the individuals, they're just luring them into a position wherein they commit an offence without giving consideration to the bigger picture and who those individuals could be linked to.
 
Oh god, this is the type of confrontation that (IMO) is done wrong - they're just baying to lynch him it seems (not watched the whole clip yet) - and all that threatening to get his manager, and saying his claim of losing his tablet was false - who are they to say?

Though I enjoy the cheesy Chris Hanson stuff, with it's hugely dramatic US approach (guys hiding with gillie suits on...), and do believe that something should be done about these nonces, seeing videos like this is fast making me lose respect for the vigilante actions. Reading some comments on here is also enlightening too.
 
No sympathy for anyone caught and I'm okay with it as long as allegations aren't publicised before the legal process has found guilt, my one complaint about it would be that the 'hunters' are always targetting male adults, why not target female adults as well?

Also, why don't they branch out into things like drug dealing? terrorism etc?
 
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Where do you draw the line with an age range, men can have sex with other men, its their choice, men can be women, its their choice, women can be men, its their choice, older men like girls younger than themselves, peado, when was the last time you heard of an older woman grooming younger boys and it being in the media?
There seems to be a lot of, its their choice, leave them too it in other walks of life, religion, sexuality yet with peados you only ever hear of men being called out yet at the other end of the scale you have cradle snatchers, gold diggers, sugar daddies...
 
Watching some of the videos by Guardians Of The North and a few other YT suggested, I can start to see why the Police don't want people doing this - it seems that most of these stings are conducted by witless knuckle-draggers, who look/sound like they are more used to sitting in front an omnibus of Jeremy Kyle shows; or picking up bargains from Poundland.

It seems that everything they do is to illicit a response, maybe to force the target to run for it, so they can then physically restrain him (sorry about his cuts and bruises Officer!); or to get passers-by to overhear the words “pedo” and hope it kicks off – hey that would make our video get 1000s more views and maybe a section in the Daily Mail!

Whoever suggested that the case should be handed over to the Police before they conduct a sting has the best idea – that way these groups get to snare these nonces; but don’t get to run amok with threats and physical restraint, or worse, accusing the wrong person.
 
Trig said:
Where do you draw the line with an age range, men can have sex with other men, its their choice, men can be women, its their choice, women can be men, its their choice, older men like girls younger than themselves, peado, when was the last time you heard of an older woman grooming younger boys and it being in the media?
There seems to be a lot of, its their choice, leave them too it in other walks of life, religion, sexuality yet with peados you only ever hear of men being called out yet at the other end of the scale you have cradle snatchers, gold diggers, sugar daddies...
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I'd imagine the line is drawn when what is legally considered an 'adult', attempts anything of a sexual nature with an individual considered to be a 'child'... We wouldn't bat an eyelid if an 18 year old lad and 16 year old girl got together, likewise a 30 something male and a 20 something woman... as both of these age ranges are within the scope that is legally acceptable.
 
I kinda agree with it, because the bad guy's 'intent' is still there. It's just that it is a sting operation.

What I don't like though is that people (especially the tabloid press) over-use the word paedophile in that to mean teenagers as well as pre-teens. The word paedophilia specifically means pre-teens. For teenagers, it is still a crime in this country but it's a different word. I think it's hebephilia or ephebophilia. Being a pedantic I know. The significance though is that they carry different sentences in UK law, and the tabloids can (and should) know better.
 
deuse said:
Maybe you should read the links posted.

"Figures obtained by the BBC show 11% of court cases in 2014 for the crime of meeting a child following sexual grooming used evidence from "hunters", rising to 44% in 2016"

We need more of this. "'Recruit paedophile hunters' says ex-CEOP boss Jim Gamble"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41350389
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It states the evidence was used.
It doesn't state there was a conviction.
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
I kinda agree with it, because the bad guy's 'intent' is still there. It's just that it is a sting operation.

What I don't like though is that people (especially the tabloid press) over-use the word paedophile in that to mean teenagers as well as pre-teens. The word paedophilia specifically means pre-teens. For teenagers, it is still a crime in this country but it's a different word. I think it's hebephilia or ephebophilia. Being a pedantic I know. The significance though is that they carry different sentences in UK law, and the tabloids can (and should) know better.
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Isn't it a pedant :D
 
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Scort said:
Whoever suggested that the case should be handed over to the Police before they conduct a sting has the best idea – that way these groups get to snare these nonces; but don’t get to run amok with threats and physical restraint, or worse, accusing the wrong person.
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IMO there aren't enough police, this is part of the problem really..

In reality, you could have real police officers, or a specialist branch of "enforcement officers" whatever you want to call them, doing this exact same job - baiting paedophiles/child groomers/etc into meeting up, where they're then dealt with. The main difference is that it's a professional outfit operating undercover, regulated, trained and paid - rather than a bunch of blokes running around in custom printed T Shirts with "BARRYS NONCE BASHERS LTD" written on them, whilst brandishing their phone cameras.

Where frontline services are being endlessly cut, fewer police, fewer backend staff, with government ministers endlessly manipulating targets and statistics to simultaneously save money and improve service, to me the focus isn't on trying to keep the public safe, it's about people government ministers keeping their jobs, rather than coming up with solutions.

Ask yourself this, if these naughty old men were evading tax, rather than grooming children - how long do you think it would be before their doors were being smashed down?
 
My two cents:

I use to lean a little in favour in vigilantism but my experiences in the last handful of years have completely turned my opinion around.

What happened was that i met my girlfriend whose father was sent to prison for a crime. It was before i met her, so whatever i believe is irrelevant. I do remember that for years before she moved in with me, her family faced so much harassment and abuse because people took it upon themselves to attack her family and the stigma of the conviction led to these attacks continuing on well after her father was put away and she even moved house the first time. There were times where i woke up very early to her neighbour knocking on the door telling us that someone had spread pictures, address, details and names of my girlfriend and her family around the neighbourhood with falsely reported details of her fathers crime. I would try and run round the area (with a hangover) trying to pick up as many of these home made flyers with her while she would be balling her eyes out at the idea of having to move house again. Police wouldn't touch the harassment as it was a civil case and what they printed out and spread was made available by rag mag online articles.



I often think that the vast majority of people around me are not fit for jury duty let alone 'criminal hunter'. Glorifying these 'hunters' by making it a form of entertainment is an even worse idea. If it was handled properly and investigations fair and details kept secret until there was a conviction, then fair enough but i dont think you can rely on amateurs to do that. Guilty or not, loads of peoples lives can be ruined by someone handling the situation stupidly, so i think it should be left to the pros.
 
Sasahara said:
There are probably more active tax evaders than underage groomers and paedos.
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It's about where resources are focused, if you focus them on tax evasion you'll catch loads of tax evaders. We do know, that if local people in their communities setup their own groups, they very quickly ensnare a pretty alarming number of alleged paedophiles/groomers, (if the sheer number of amateur video is anything to go by)

But many estimates have shown that the numbers provided so far, regarding the extent of the problem are only really the tip of the iceberg, if you don't focus proper real resources on this problem and spend some cash - then you'll leave the community to deal with the problem itself, and I think these vigilante groups are the biggest symptom of that, even the police seem to be giving in,

I kinda feel like I'm talking trash a bit, but I honestly can't help think - if the government spent some cash and setup a proper official unit with the same sort of intelligence, surveillance and wide ranging powers as something like HMRC - it would make a serious dent in the paedophile problem, but lets face it - it wouldn't bring any money back in..
 
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