Panama Papers

Someone made a very good point on lbc radio:



Pretty much sums it all up, we can't state for definite that it is illegal as there haven't been many legal proceedings brought forward by the HMRC against the big ones (as they always settle outside of court or the HMRC don't pursue for the obvious reasons) to set the precedent.

And the reason for that is because HMRC's lawyers (who are very expert in their field) will have thoroughly examined the existing precedents and will only pursue those cases where they think they have a strong (99.9..%) chance of winning. After all, the last thing HMRC want on the front pages is "Taxman loses in major court case!!!". That sort of thing sends the wrong message to the plebs ;)
 
And the reason for that is because HMRC's lawyers (who are very expert in their field) will have thoroughly examined the existing precedents and will only pursue those cases where they think they have a strong (99.9..%) chance of winning. After all, the last thing HMRC want on the front pages is "Taxman loses in major court case!!!". That sort of thing sends the wrong message to the plebs ;)

I'm not sure that follows. If HMRC don't have enough evidence to take a business or individual to court, then why would that business or individual settle out of court? Surely they would just laugh at HMRC's request and carry on doing what they are doing?
 
So you want to do something with all that cash...

aiJebjT.jpg


Unsurprisingly UK lawyers/accountants/agents/banks can help (Times):

Almost 2,000 British middlemen helped to create a network of offshore companies and move billions of pounds secretly around the world, according to the Panama papers.

Lawyers, accountants, banks and company formation agents based in Britain were involved in setting up 32,000 of the 200,000 offshore companies incorporated by Mossack Fonseca, the Panamanian law firm.

Britain provided the second-highest number of “enablers” to Mossack Fonseca clients, beaten only by Hong Kong, according to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists.

“London is the epicentre of so much of the sleaze that happens in the world,” said Nicholas Shaxson, a tax expert.

A Times analysis of land registry data separately shows that thousands of offshore companies that owned British properties over a 16-year period gave UK addresses at major City law firms including Clifford Chance, Farrer & Co and Withers.


The findings cast a spotlight on advisers based in Britain who set up, administer or provide services to offshore companies. Owning property offshore is not illegal but can offer tax advantages. The practice also makes it more difficult to establish the owner because only the company’s name appears on publicly available documents.

A report last year by Transparency International said that British property had become a “safe haven for corrupt capital stolen from around the world”. It found that property worth £180 million had been placed under criminal investigation since 2004, with offshore vehicles used in more than three quarters of cases. There is no suggestion that any firms named by The Times acted illegally.

One London-based firm, Michael Conn Goldsobel, acts as solicitor for Wallace Properties Ltd, a Mauritian company that recorded interests in more than 2,000 UK properties. Howard Goldsobel, a partner, said that the company was UK tax resident and was liable to and paid “substantial UK corporation tax on its profits”.

Stephenson Harwood, an international firm headquartered in London, is linked through its address to 1,241 properties owned by 622 offshore companies, according to the data. These include hundreds of companies created to purchase one apartment block in Dolphin Square, central London. Overall, 655 offshore companies used the addresses of the top 20 UK law firms, the data found.

These include Eversheds, the London law firm whose address was used by two companies belonging to Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, president of the United Arab Emirates, who holds a £1.2 billion property portfolio through Mossack Fonseca. Eversheds declined to comment.

Clifford Chance is linked to 108 properties in the land registry data while Charles Russell Speechlys, which has represented Arkady Rotenberg, the Russian oligarch, is connected to hundreds of properties.

The majority of the offshore companies in the land registry database, which covers offshore purchases between 1999 and 2015, did not provide British addresses, meaning that the number of domestic law firms involved is likely to be much higher.

In a new report published today, Transparency International UK called for punitive sanctions against “professional enablers” who facilitated money laundering. The document said: “In the UK these enablers are typically lawyers, accountants and company-formation agents known as trust and company service providers. Money laundering is also facilitated by the availability of high-end investment and spending opportunities, which range from property to private education.”

Robert Palmer of the campaign group Global Witness, said that Mossack Fonseca was a “glorified paper-pusher” behind whom lay an array of banks and law firms organising the movement and concealment of money.

He added: “London is probably the global money-laundering capital — you have huge sums swirling through London property and an army of ‘pinstripe professionals’ who enable that.”

Farrer & Co said that the firm carried out due diligence before acting for clients, including “complying with the requirements of the Law Society and anti-money laundering rules” as well as additional checks.

Charles Russell Speechlys said that its work could involve “advising clients on how best to manage their personal capital and assets and plan for the future”. The firm said that it ensured that its advice “adheres strictly to legal requirements at all times”.

Withers said that it carried out detailed anti-money laundering checks on all clients. “Proper compliance with these obligations performs an important role in preventing money laundering and criminality in London’s property market,” a spokesman added.

Clifford Chance and Stephenson Harwood declined to comment.

The Law Society said that it provided training and advice on anti-money laundering which was approved by the Treasury and that it did not believe that there was widespread malpractice in the legal profession.
 
British Crown Dependencies are already signed up to the OECD's Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters.

Here's a list, you will see that Britain has covered Crown Dependencies by extension:

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/exchange-of-tax-information/Status_of_convention.pdf

Here's the convention:

http://www.oecd.org/ctp/exchange-of-tax-information/ENG-Amended-Convention.pdf

Here are some quotes (I can't be bothered to fix formatting):

I was aware and that's what I am saying. Clearly if these dependencies (think that is an appropriate word) are harboring these types of thing then the Govt (despite them all being in the trough) should step in.

We can hope Corbyn will be using the line "we're all in this together" and now we know what that means its a double entendre that's as much a joke to them as it is a morally and possibly illegitimat means. Jokes on the working class
 
I find this 10x worse then any "benefit cheat" yet these guys will never get punished. :(

Osborne has his faults but getting the public to blame benefit claimants rather than tax dodgers for the budget problems was very, very clever.

The number of people defending the avoiders/evaders in this thread says it all!
 
Osborne has his faults but getting the public to blame benefit claimants rather than tax dodgers for the budget problems was very, very clever.

The number of people defending the avoiders/evaders in this thread says it all!

Amen

Benefit cheats are a zit on the backside of tax avoidance. I know benefit fraud happens. I'm actually far more accepting of it knowing now morally people maybe claiming £300 a month they shouldn't vs people avoiding £30,000+ a month. Well, its not the teenage mums who led us to the financial crisis, it wasn't benefit cheats that let to the collapse, it wasn't me being overdrawn by a grand that led to this situation. It is entities set up to deliberately avoid and therefore deprive a system that relies on it.

My mum has a broken back but despite Doctors (including a spinal surgeon) saying: This person is not for work - she is the problem. Well the people causing this problem are very likely to have me on their case suing them for damages on behalf of my mum in the coming months unless they re-instate and back pay 4months worth nearly of benefits
 
nobody is actually surprised about all this are they?

I mean it's been going on for years and is well known, it's just that know the actual papers have been released into the public domain.
 
I'm not and have always said that there is mass corruption amongst the rich at the expense of all others. That's one reason I am in favor of a cap on wealth. How much is too much? To some people too much is an unregistered thought. To me too much is 9 figures, some people might think it 8 some 7 and so on. One thing that should be apparent is that there does come a point where wealth is far beyond what should be permissible. These papers are showing a small fraction, possibly as little as a few percent of what is going on
 
That private eye map was really interesting. I looked at my local area and some obvious things were owned by multinationals, like the local Lidl, but even some domestic rental properties were owned by companies registered in Mauritius. I'd been aware this sort of thing took place, naively assuming it was only for big businesses, but was surprised it was happening at such a mundane level, maybe the owner has hundreds of homes.

Thx for posting the link.
 
I'm not and have always said that there is mass corruption amongst the rich at the expense of all others. That's one reason I am in favor of a cap on wealth. How much is too much? To some people too much is an unregistered thought. To me too much is 9 figures, some people might think it 8 some 7 and so on. One thing that should be apparent is that there does come a point where wealth is far beyond what should be permissible. These papers are showing a small fraction, possibly as little as a few percent of what is going on

what a hock of crap. This isn't communist Russia. You cannot have a say in nor dictate to people how much wealth they can or cannot have. This is just being mad and jel about it. It is just another case of people looking at what someone else has got and either wanting that too or making up some horse crap reasons why they shouldn't have it. People like you should be shot before they poison the free world.
 
what a hock of crap. This isn't communist Russia. You cannot have a say in nor dictate to people how much wealth they can or cannot have. This is just being mad and jel about it. It is just another case of people looking at what someone else has got and either wanting that too or making up some horse crap reasons why they shouldn't have it. People like you should be shot before they poison the free world.

So you are clearly 100% fine with a tiny fraction of people having virtually everything while millions don't. You are ok with 80-100 people having more money than half the planet, you are fine with 5 UK families having more than 12million and you are happy with that situation to not just continue but get worse. Would you be happy for 10 people to have more wealth that 6billion people? Oh of course you would. Its people or should I say delusional and self serving morally defunct fools like you who are happy with millions dying or condemned to suffering because of how much brass they have who should be shot.

Share the wealth there is plenty to go around. I'm not advocating a bin man getting the same as a professor I am saying how much obscene wealth is enough. You think they can and should have everything. Me and many more than in your camp think like me.

Oh edit: Free world... Ok back to your little box of "freedom"
 
Unsurprised to find that my neighbour's house is owned by a company in the British Virgin Islands. The guy claims to be a Nigerian prince. :p
 
Unsurprised to find that my neighbour's house is owned by a company in the British Virgin Islands. The guy claims to be a Nigerian prince. :p

Small world. I think i got a email from him, I hope he managed to get his money out of Nigeria ok.
 
Unsurprised to find that my neighbour's house is owned by a company in the British Virgin Islands. The guy claims to be a Nigerian prince. :p

Can you tell him to stop spamming me with emails, I'm not interested in helping him transfer his money out of the country.
 
There was a garage with a little sign on not a million miles from where my dad works. Cayman Isles. Never seen anyone there
 
Yea, and his very carefully worded statements that "He does not" and "He will not" benefit from offshore tax haven investments

No mention that "He has not" :p
 
That private eye map was really interesting. I looked at my local area and some obvious things were owned by multinationals, like the local Lidl, but even some domestic rental properties were owned by companies registered in Mauritius. I'd been aware this sort of thing took place, naively assuming it was only for big businesses, but was surprised it was happening at such a mundane level, maybe the owner has hundreds of homes.

Thx for posting the link.

It's strange isn't it? Even the centre of my sleepy home town has three large residential sites/rows of houses of £1m each (and one modest flat! :confused:) registered with offshore companies (BVI, Costa Rica, the Isle of Man, and Guernsey). There must be a reason to go to these lengths, but is it just secrecy or nefarious? Who knows.


Heard this this morning - doesn't look good! First blocking EU steel tariffs and now this...
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom