Panasonic BD35 Vs PS3?

[james.miller]

I think the fact that AV companies go through thr RD and procude players and kit well over £1000 says it all

denon also sell a $500 ethernet cable. if people are willing to pay, they will produce it.

You can't proove anything either way....it's impossible because it's all subjective.

no. if the difference is quantifable then you CAN prove it.

 

[Reality Bites]

Tell me how i can prove it then? Give me one example of how i can provide fact to you?

It's subjective, all of it! There hasn't been one example of fact in this whole thread other than subjective comments!

The only backing from my statements were that the only guy lunarwolf quoted actually owns several very expensive BD players. Whether he's an enthusiast or not, that alone is absolutely stupid if he see's no difference in them and a £100 cheap and nasty player?

Who in there right mind spends this kind of cash for no gains? He can't just do it to be someone who has a million posts on a forum? can anyone be that sad?

EDIT: how can you proove that there is no difference?

 

[oli collett]

I think the fact that AV companies go through thr RD and procude players and kit well over £1000 says it all. Why would they do that and why would people actually buy it if there was no difference?

.

There's not much proof that a lot of AV kit makes a difference, either perceived or otherwise. In the digital age people are finding it easier to convince people that a certain thing can not make a difference and with the likes of blu-ray players it's relatively easy to do simple side by side tests.

AV companies R & D on products tells you nothing either, they're just trying to make some money. Why do QED sell £100+ HDMI cables and other people sell £1000+ power conditioners when there is no evidence they do anything? Because people will still buy em.

 

[oli collett]

Tell me how i can prove it then? Give me one example of how i can provide fact to you?

It's subjective, all of it! There hasn't been one example of fact in this whole thread other than subjective comments!

Agreed - but you are making the claims that there is a difference. It is down to you to prove that.

The only backing from my statements were that the only guy lunarwolf quoted actually owns several very expensive BD players. Whether he's an enthusiast or not, that alone is absolutely stupid if he see's no difference in them and a £100 cheap and nasty player?

Agreed - something i can't get my head around either!

Who in there right mind spends this kind of cash for no gains? He can't just do it to be someone who has a million posts on a forum? can anyone be that sad?

EDIT: how can you proove that there is no difference?

A/B/X testing for one, although it's a bit of a pain at home. But do you really believe that all these people spending thousands on their A/V equipment actually get any benefit from a lot of these products? I don't.

 

[lunarwolf]

I'd only ever consider the ps3 as a BD player if you really want a gaming machine. The BD35 will be much better

please explain with proof how it will be much better.

to remind you the OP was asking specifically about Blu Ray PQ playback - not DVD upscaling, CD audio etc...

 

[james.miller]

Tell me how i can prove it then? Give me one example of how i can provide fact to you?

if you are willing to state a fact you should be willing to back it up. you can take photos, screenshots, audio measurements. all if this you can do if you are willing to prove it. i can provide screenshots showing the same image from all 3 of my players, i KNOW i can. you cant provide anything showing a difference? why not?

It's subjective, all of it! There hasn't been one example of fact in this whole thread other than subjective comments!

except mine is all from experiance. with a little bit of common sense thrown in. are you telling me now you have no actual experiance of these products?

 

[Cryfreeman]

Not seen it mentioned but the bd35 lacks the abilty to play Divx from usb stick.

Maybe a point to consider for some.

Also found the bd35 can be fussy with divx material on dvdr's

 

[lunarwolf]

The only backing from my statements were that the only guy lunarwolf quoted actually owns several very expensive BD players.

there is a difference, but not in Blu Ray PQ. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[easyrider]

I hate HI FI and AV

Reason being that there is to much emotion in what, in essence is binary.

I agree with the notion that a £1000 BD player will not worth 800 quid more than a sony BDP 350

But It might be worth it to some body else.

Its subjective.

"this amp is more musical than this amp"

"the IQ is better than this"

At this level of BD playback I would argue that a blind test would fool the best of the "enthusiasts"

Stick a 1000 quid BD standalone into my Onkyo 876 against a 159 quid sony BDP 350 and choose the best?

The best won't be worth 700 on any level.

I bought ba HDMI cable today for 4.59 and I see no difference over my mates 60 quid QED.

Since starting my home cinema build the HI FI road as been tiresome at most.

I got quoted 900 quid for acoustic design for my room FFS


If its out there poeple will buy it.

Doesn;t make it the best just cause its got an extra 1000 quid on the price tag.

Its the digital age.

Garbage in=Garbage out

Digital streams are digital streams.

HIFI nuts are running out of ideas.

 

[branddaly]

....

Heretic!!!

 

[FrankJH]

Sorry, my mistake. What I meant to say was that I'm fairly picky on the audio side of things, whilst I think that others are perhaps more sensitive on differences in visuals

aahhh ok I agree, a good picture is one thing, but decent audio is mesmerising imo

a lot of this IS subjective because at the end of the day not everyone ears or eyes are the same - just because it looks / sounds "better" to one person, doesnt mean it will to everyone - thats a fact of life

Personally I prefer the BD35 purely from the audio point of view, which imo was well worth the £200 to hear a crystal clear sound track with a lot more layers /effects more clearly heard through bitstream than having the ps3 decoding the same soundtrack.

Unfortunately not everyone puts as much effort into soundtracks as maybe they should (or the reproduction of them at any rate) and so some discs come off worse - all I can say is that in my setup to my ears bitstreaming is a big improvement

Digital streams are digital streams.

Thats like saying sweets are sweets - but do you mean opal fruits, marsbars or tic tacs?

 

[9designs2]

Think some need to step back here and see the bigger picture...(pun intended ....
For a start not all equipment is the same or performs the same....but that depends on what aspect you want to compare..... Reason for an expensive BD player ???..... maybe there is, and maybe I am a potential customer !!!!!!! (Shock horror).....

So set up one, uses AV amp and a BDP to stream to it, so effectively we are using the player as a transport, like the days of 2 box CD players..... sorry I pre date AV, and digital !!... So stereo/HiFi is my game.....
So now the difference is only going to be in the read ability of the drive. In audio this had an effect due to Jitter and reclocking needed. In AV I can't believe the jitter would be so bad in modern players to cause any issue.
So no need for an expensive player in this set up.....

Set up 2....(possibly like mine).... The AV amp doesn't have HMDI, and or the need to switch video etc. either way the user chooses to do the decoding in the BD Player........ Ahhhh NOW we have all those hours of R&D and cost counting for something,,, As the on board dacs for both video and audio are being used.

Now the question should be, what is better, 1000 BDP and hi end analogue AV pre amp, or 300 BDP in to 400-800 AV amp ? (Typically what people buy).

My pre amp is a 5 channel analogue Hi-Fi amp, with DACs onboard for DD and DTS. With no HDMI, on component video switching. So is out of date from a tech point of view. For sound, it has no problem to win a demo.

So for me the Hi-End players "could" offer something, with their onboard processing. I actually think for me this is the better route to take, as I don't need to compromise the rest of my audio system this way.

Not everyone has the same requirements.......but of coarse everyone opinion is always right !!!......

 

[Reality Bites]

if you are willing to state a fact you should be willing to back it up. you can take photos, screenshots, audio measurements. all if this you can do if you are willing to prove it. i can provide screenshots showing the same image from all 3 of my players, i KNOW i can. you cant provide anything showing a difference? why not?



except mine is all from experiance. with a little bit of common sense thrown in. are you telling me now you have no actual experiance of these products?

I haven't stated fact. I've commented on my experience, forum members experience and the magazine reviews of 100's of bits of kit which quite plainly state that there is a difference in PQ and SQ from different AV hardware (BD players included).

Lunarwolf simply asked and quoted one forum members 'findings' yet this seems to be taken as fact also. It's not fact, it's a view!

And i'm afraid, your reviews/comments/comparisons are all subjective too whether you like it or not. At the end of the day, different people will see different qualities....end of!

By saying there is no difference between any levels of BD player is like calling every magazine a fraud, because that is what you are doing.

Posting pictures of a screen shows nothing. Pausing a film to take a picture wouldn't really show anything. No, i can't take pictures of several BD players PQ because i actually went down the route of trialling a few in my budget and choosing one which suited me best.

 

[Reality Bites]

please explain with proof how it will be much better.

to remind you the OP was asking specifically about Blu Ray PQ playback - not DVD upscaling, CD audio etc...

£100 price difference for one, smaller form facter, quieter etc etc. The PQ 'IMO' is a fraction better (yes i've tried both) and if you don't need a games machine, why would you buy it?

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

£100 price difference for one, smaller form facter, quieter etc etc. The PQ 'IMO' is a fraction better (yes i've tried both) and if you don't need a games machine, why would you buy it?

Well I could add in the ability of the PS3 to stream a variety of formats, along with the option to add in a £50 PlayTV unit and use it as a PVR.
Having said that, I agree with your general point.
If you don't need the extra functionality of the PS3, buy the BD35.

 

[-Ad-]

I would always advise you spend the most money on the components that make the most difference to the picture quality. For example I would put as much money into teh screen as possible and get a Kuro, then a cheapy blu-ray player like the goodmans reviewed by the guys at that demo in Borehamwood, rather than spending less on something like a commercial panasonic screen and a much more expensive blu-ray player.

The same thing goes for Hi-fi, it's better to put as much money as possible into speakers (weakest link), but also make sure you can get the best amp to drive them properly. Then invest the rest left over in a source. My stereo front end at RRP is about £3k, well a few years ago, and the lyngdorf amps are now towards £2k (I did pay a lot less though ), and my cd player is an old marantz cd-63 with a few £100 worth of mods. Much better sound than if I spent £1k+ on a CDP and compromised on speakers and the amp. Not even going to bother talking about the effects of a room, just kept it simple

 

[lunarwolf]

I would always advise you spend the most money on the components that make the most difference to the picture quality. For example I would put as much money into teh screen as possible and get a Kuro, then a cheapy blu-ray player like the goodmans reviewed by the guys at that demo in Borehamwood, rather than spending less on something like a commercial panasonic screen and a much more expensive blu-ray player.

The same thing goes for Hi-fi, it's better to put as much money as possible into speakers (weakest link), but also make sure you can get the best amp to drive them properly. Then invest the rest left over in a source. My stereo front end at RRP is about £3k, well a few years ago, and the lyngdorf amps are now towards £2k (I did pay a lot less though ), and my cd player is an old marantz cd-63 with a few £100 worth of mods. Much better sound than if I spent £1k+ on a CDP and compromised on speakers and the amp. Not even going to bother talking about the effects of a room, just kept it simple

+1 words of wisdom

 

[9designs2]

The same thing goes for Hi-fi, it's better to put as much money as possible into speakers (weakest link), but also make sure you can get the best amp to drive them properly. Then invest the rest left over in a source. My stereo front end at RRP is about £3k, well a few years ago, and the lyngdorf amps are now towards £2k (I did pay a lot less though ), and my cd player is an old marantz cd-63 with a few £100 worth of mods. Much better sound than if I spent £1k+ on a CDP and compromised on speakers and the amp. Not even going to bother talking about the effects of a room, just kept it simple

That's a very old debate, and one that always splits opinion. And is a new thread in it own right !!.....But basically I counter that with "rubbish in rubbish out"..... Personally I would never spend most on the speakers, until such time as excellent/Hi End front end and amp were in place.....


You can't really claim you have done what you say, as a modded CDP is no longer a "budget" player, so in reality you have put more effort into the front end than you claim.... (not everyone will be up for DIY work remember, so spending more here is value added).

Once you have a speaker of a "good" quality, it really is only changing the presentation, and never improves the quality, that a better source can.

Digital front ends removed some of the front end bias that "flat earth" vinyl systems demand. But not completely. A well balance system is always best.
As always in these debates, it normal ends up with extreme cases.... 50 quid component with £5000 one.... which pushes the point to far....
Synergy, is what makes a system great over an average one..... Sadly the world is full of average.

So in my experience differs from yours -1 ....

 

[Reality Bites]

I would always advise you spend the most money on the components that make the most difference to the picture quality. For example I would put as much money into teh screen as possible and get a Kuro, then a cheapy blu-ray player like the goodmans reviewed by the guys at that demo in Borehamwood, rather than spending less on something like a commercial panasonic screen and a much more expensive blu-ray player.

The same thing goes for Hi-fi, it's better to put as much money as possible into speakers (weakest link), but also make sure you can get the best amp to drive them properly. Then invest the rest left over in a source. My stereo front end at RRP is about £3k, well a few years ago, and the lyngdorf amps are now towards £2k (I did pay a lot less though ), and my cd player is an old marantz cd-63 with a few £100 worth of mods. Much better sound than if I spent £1k+ on a CDP and compromised on speakers and the amp. Not even going to bother talking about the effects of a room, just kept it simple

I know the thread is about BD and digital, but wouldn't you agree that if you have a poor source, the speakers at the end of the chain cannot make up for that?

Great speakers will only output what the source can give them, if that source is bad, it will sound bad?

 

[james.miller]

Think some need to step back here and see the bigger picture...(pun intended ....
For a start not all equipment is the same or performs the same....but that depends on what aspect you want to compare..... Reason for an expensive BD player ???..... maybe there is, and maybe I am a potential customer !!!!!!! (Shock horror).....

So set up one, uses AV amp and a BDP to stream to it, so effectively we are using the player as a transport, like the days of 2 box CD players..... sorry I pre date AV, and digital !!... So stereo/HiFi is my game.....
So now the difference is only going to be in the read ability of the drive. In audio this had an effect due to Jitter and reclocking needed. In AV I can't believe the jitter would be so bad in modern players to cause any issue.
So no need for an expensive player in this set up.....

Set up 2....(possibly like mine).... The AV amp doesn't have HMDI, and or the need to switch video etc. either way the user chooses to do the decoding in the BD Player........ Ahhhh NOW we have all those hours of R&D and cost counting for something,,, As the on board dacs for both video and audio are being used.

Now the question should be, what is better, 1000 BDP and hi end analogue AV pre amp, or 300 BDP in to 400-800 AV amp ? (Typically what people buy).

My pre amp is a 5 channel analogue Hi-Fi amp, with DACs onboard for DD and DTS. With no HDMI, on component video switching. So is out of date from a tech point of view. For sound, it has no problem to win a demo.

So for me the Hi-End players "could" offer something, with their onboard processing. I actually think for me this is the better route to take, as I don't need to compromise the rest of my audio system this way.

Not everyone has the same requirements.......but of coarse everyone opinion is always right !!!......

spot on as usual

however, you are forgetting system 3 - transport source and a high end HD decoder driving some good old high end analogue amplifiers which would fall in line with the requirements of those chasing seriously high end quality.

bitstreaming to a decent av amp can, these days, offer so much for your moolah. however the option is there to go further still. i dont think there is a player in sight that would match a dedicated decoder no matter how good the analogue outputs are and thats where id draw the line. id be looking at something like an onkyo pc-sr886 as a minimum to drive your setup rather than ploughing all my money into a player. Indeed its exactly what id do if money wasnt the deciding factor. if hdmi switching and all the other bells and whistles arent needed then im sure something more suitable is out there. im applying the same pricipal of using an off-board processor for cd listening to Hd audio here - im sure there are real benefits to be made over using a player to do it, whatever the cost.