Pascal Refresh to 14nm in 2017

[r7slayer]

With the amount of money nvidia have they should invest in making their own fabrication plant.

No chance, they can't just jump in the fabrication game like that. It takes massive amounts of R&D and investments. Best bet would for nVidia to buy out a fabrication company but even then this wouldn't make much sense from a business point of view as there isn't gong to be much return for nVidia doing this. Might as well let the Fab big boys do what they do. nVidia are better off spending more time and money in R&D to design and develop GPU archs.

I can see what your getting at but silicon fabrication is a very competitive business so nVidia are better off staying a customer rather than a supplier lol.

 

[killswitch73]

Keep on waiting and your'll never buy anything!

Enjoy the moment now. After all it's only money. When something better comes out I'll buy that as well.

And I have 3 kids pal !!

And 3 980ti's

If it's only money you buy me them .

 

[Samwell]

I didnt know this , all i did was post an article for people to put there opinions across . dont make any sense to me , the reason why i posted it as wanting to upgrade to 2x pascal titans and put them under water , with this article im thinking there will me more pascal card releases and more powerful that the Titan PX is. so i will now wait and save my money and wait it out .

Of course there will be more Pascal Releases, but nothing much more powerful. I would expect a new Titan with full GP102 core and 3840SPs in Q1 2017 probably, around the time when Vega launches. But this will only bring ~10% more Speed. So you wait 6 months for 10~%, but then Volta is only 15 Months away in ~mid 2018, which will bring a major speed improvement. So in my view it makes no sense to wait for full GP102 Titan, if you want to spend the money. Waiting für 1080Ti is something different because Titan is just overpriced in my opinion, but if you want to spend the money anyway, i wouldn't wait.

 

[Rroff]

You are forgetting the new consoles like the XBox One S are being made on TSMC 16NM so they are in line for some major contracts.

The article says Pascal GPUs this year - it's most likely to be the GP107 and GP108.

Not forgetting - even with the major contracts, etc. they have areas of spare capacity they've been trying to fill up by offering certain partners in "troubled" sectors discounts.

 

[Combat Fighter]

And I have 3 kids pal !!

And 3 980ti's

If it's only money you buy me them .

And I've got 3 kids also.

What's your point?

Money's made to be spent. I work hard (own my own business) so yeah If I like it I'll buy it.
Plus IT stuff is tax deductible for me which is a bonus.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Not forgetting - even with the major contracts, etc. they have areas of spare capacity they've been trying to fill up by offering certain partners in "troubled" sectors discounts.

Maybe AMD needs to get in some TSMC action!!

And I've got 3 kids also.

What's your point?

Money's made to be spent. I work hard (own my own business) so yeah If I like it I'll buy it.
Plus IT stuff is tax deductible for me which is a bonus.

I think he might have spent more on cards than you,just sayin'!

 

[killswitch73]

And I've got 3 kids also.

What's your point?

Money's made to be spent. I work hard (own my own business) so yeah If I like it I'll buy it.
Plus IT stuff is tax deductible for me which is a bonus.

My kids come first .

Unless I want a divorce along with those Titans .

As only bought a new mountain bike that cost 4.5k .

2 expensive hobbies you see .

And I'm waiting on what comes out next like I did with 980ti and glad I held off .

 

[killswitch73]

Of course there will be more Pascal Releases, but nothing much more powerful. I would expect a new Titan with full GP102 core and 3840SPs in Q1 2017 probably, around the time when Vega launches. But this will only bring ~10% more Speed. So you wait 6 months for 10~%, but then Volta is only 15 Months away in ~mid 2018, which will bring a major speed improvement. So in my view it makes no sense to wait for full GP102 Titan, if you want to spend the money. Waiting für 1080Ti is something different because Titan is just overpriced in my opinion, but if you want to spend the money anyway, i wouldn't wait.

1080ti it is but I do believe there will be a full fat Titan , they are just to expensive . should have put i was tempted . Or if they had been aftermarket coolers like the EVGA who don't even mind you adding a water block under warranty then I could have upgraded . And took the divorce on the chin .

I might even wait longer for Volta as the idea of getting the 980tis was to skip a gen . Then upgrade propper along with the 7th gen CPU .

And a 4K 100hz 32/40in screen .

 

[Rroff]

Second gen 14nm is a bit smaller than 16nm, but based on AMD's (and Apple's) chips I'd still argue that it is worse than TSMC's process. They are both still the same as 20nm though: "The back-end of line (BEOL) processes are more or less the same for 20, 16nm and 14nm technologies provided by the foundries."(source)

I might be wrong but I think at TSMC they used some of that extra space as non-functional/dark silicon to work around leakage and thermal, etc. type problems which has allowed them to reach maturity at higher power levels that still trouble Samsung/GF at the same transistor counts (or something along those lines).

 

[akarypid]

I wonder if this is purely a supply issue. I seem to recall reading that both Microsoft and Samsung will be producing consoles on TSMC and usually this happens towards the end of Q3 when they ramp up production for the Christmas holidays. At the same time you've got Apple and others refreshing their phones (iPhone 7 maybe?) and it all that demand leaves little room for NVidia...

Otherwise the two processes (Samsung 14nm / TSMC 16nm) may have their differences but they're not far apart in performance. I doubt Pascal chips made by Samsung would be any worse than the TSMC ones. Maybe 1-2FPS faster (or slower)... Maybe 5watts less (or more)... Doubt it'd be anything important.

 

[Rroff]

Otherwise the two processes (Samsung 14nm / TSMC 16nm) may have their differences but they're not far apart in performance. I doubt Pascal chips made by Samsung would be any worse than the TSMC ones. Maybe 1-2FPS faster (or slower)... Maybe 5watts less (or more)... Doubt it'd be anything important.

Dunno granted it is GF using Samsung's process under license but the RX480 doesn't exactly encourage that Samsung 14nm does that great in high performance applications - it might make sense for lower end stuff though as it has been proved that Samsung's process works well in low voltage/low power use - being able to run stable at lower voltages than TSMC can manage.

 

[akarypid]

Dunno granted it is GF using Samsung's process under license but the RX480 doesn't exactly encourage that Samsung 14nm does that great in high performance applications - it might make sense for lower end stuff though as it has been proved that Samsung's process works well in low voltage/low power use - being able to run stable at lower voltages than TSMC can manage.

I've read what you're saying on multiple sites, as well as forum comments, but as far as I've been able to track the sources, most of the material refers to Samsung's LPE version of the process, and not the newer LPP version. LPP has so far only been used for the Snapdragon 820 and the Exynos 8890 (both of which wipe the floor with the older LPE models).

Also, some comparisons of the A9 processor in iPhones (the only chip I know to be manufactured with both processes) are still comparing Samsung's LPP to TSMC's process (and those are close).

Samsung claims it increased switching speed by 15% while at the same time decreasing power consumption (leakage) by roughly the same amount. So at the same power levels you can have additional transistors with that faster switching speed. AMD and surely NVidia (if they do go ahead with this) use the LPP process. Given that AMD is using it for Zen (engineering samples are out) and RX480, it's proven that it can do large chips very well...

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Dunno granted it is GF using Samsung's process under license but the RX480 doesn't exactly encourage that Samsung 14nm does that great in high performance applications - it might make sense for lower end stuff though as it has been proved that Samsung's process works well in low voltage/low power use - being able to run stable at lower voltages than TSMC can manage.

Its GF,even when they licensed the Samsung 14NM process they were behind in yields,etc and it might be why AMD has also an agreement with Samsung now too.

Also,it does seem like the Polaris chips might be more orientated towards lower clockspeeds and voltages too.

It might be why the Polaris 10 GPU used in the PS4 Neo is running at under 1GHZ apparently.

 

[V F]

My kids come first .

Unless I want a divorce along with those Titans .

As only bought a new mountain bike that cost 4.5k .

2 expensive hobbies you see .

And I'm waiting on what comes out next like I did with 980ti and glad I held off .

I'm assuming at that price it is fully loaded? Disc brakes and suspension...

 

[Dicehunter]

Depending on how AMD's Vega fairs then we could very well see a refresh of Pascal with slightly better performance etc.....

To avoid this though we need AMD to really kick it up a notch when it comes to performance.

 

[killswitch73]

I'm assuming at that price it is fully loaded? Disc brakes and suspension...

You can't get any more loaded : even the wheels are carbon lol !!

 

[DarrenM343]

Depending on how AMD's Vega fairs then we could very well see a refresh of Pascal with slightly better performance etc.....

To avoid this though we need AMD to really kick it up a notch when it comes to performance.

Where's this speculation coming from? One moment the belief out there seems to be about Pascal being a stop-gap between Maxwell and Volta, with VOlta happening in 2017, the next, suddenly there's a refresh Pascal in the mix too ?
Really doubt a refresh will happen if Volta is coming along so soon, which is what many seem to be predicting.

 

[FoxEye]

Where's this speculation coming from? One moment the belief out there seems to be about Pascal being a stop-gap between Maxwell and Volta, with VOlta happening in 2017, the next, suddenly there's a refresh Pascal in the mix too ?
Really doubt a refresh will happen if Volta is coming along so soon, which is what many seem to be predicting.

If they didn't think Vega could match a 1080, why wouldn't they delay Volta?

They could release a "refresh" of Pascal, like AMD did with the 300 series, and get more money from old rope

A bit like Intel, I don't think it's really in nVidia's interests to pull too far ahead of AMD. So you'll have 10% incremental updates/refreshes unless AMD do some serious catching up.

 

[Silent_Scone]

It means Nvidia made the same decision extremely late and is responsible for the shocking 1080 supply to date and likely responsible for Nvidia making Titan X only available through them in small quantities.

Supply is fine. This is exactly why nobody listens to you. The latter part of your post is obviously made with as little basis as the one you are replying to, so nothing need be said on that.

 

[Greebo]

Supply is fine. This is exactly why nobody listens to you. The latter part of your post is obviously made with as little basis as the one you are replying to, so nothing need be said on that.

Supply isn't fine. Some aib are still fulfilling pre orders almost three months long.

And now gddr5x is in short supply.