Pasta sauce

Well for a start you don't need sugar in a tomato sauce. Maybe if you're short on time and can only simmer it for <20mins. You also don't need carrot, celery etc. in every tomato sauce, that'd be more for a bolognese/ragu or something imo. Not every red sauce is a 3hr jobby.
Technically, you need every ingredient used in the pre-made sauce, in order to make a fair, like-for-like comparison on cost... technically.

But then I also wasn't costing up a complete set of meal plans across the several weeks that ingredients would last, I was only looking at the one recipe that the earlier poster pegged as cheaper... and even if you only use 5% of something that you always have in, it still costs to have it always in and you need to include that 5% in your costings. Having something already doesn't make it free.
 
and even if you only use 5% of something that you always have in, it still costs to have it always in and you need to include that 5% in your costings. Having something already doesn't make it free.
I understand that, and yes it's hard to compare like-for-like. But at the end of the day, someone with a bit of cooking knowledge that is happy cobbling together say 5 dinners a week from scratch, is going to spend far, far less than someone who is buying ready made sauces, prepared ingredients, microwave meals etc. Because you'll be using those ingredients up, and you'll know how to use them up. This is why schools should teach proper home economics. Every child should walk away with say 10 cheap and easy recipes to last them a lifetime, the world would be a much better place.
 
But at the end of the day, someone with a bit of cooking knowledge that is happy cobbling together say 5 dinners a week from scratch, is going to spend far, far less than someone who is buying ready made sauces, prepared ingredients, microwave meals etc.
That's outside the scope of this comparison, though.
Anyone buying massive quantities of pre-made sauce in bulk is going to save more money than someone making it from scratch, no matter how much home economic schooling they've had. This is why restaurants buy it the same way, instead of mass-producing it themselves.

The comparison is purely home-made vs shop-bought, and what quantities of home-made are required to eventually return the lower costs.
 
Anyone buying massive quantities of pre-made sauce in bulk is going to save more money than someone making it from scratch, no matter how much home economic schooling they've had. This is why restaurants buy it the same way, instead of mass-producing it themselves.
Sorry but that's just completely untrue. Pre-made sauces simply wouldn't exist in the market if the manufacturers couldn't make any money on the end product :confused: Why would they make it and sell it otherwise... Raw ingredients will always cost less than ready-made sauces, or finished jars. I'm not going to pretend to know what big Italian chains like Zizzi's do but I think you'll find any semi-decent restaurant will be making sauces themselves...

The comparison is purely home-made vs shop-bought, and what quantities of home-made are required to eventually return the lower costs.
Agreed. And I'm telling you that if you buy a packet of 3 onions, a bulb of garlic and 4 tins of tomatoes (heck, chuck in some dried herbs if you want) you'll only need to make 3-4 double portions of sauce to come out the other side cheaper than having bought 3-4 double portions of jarred sauce. We're not talking mechanised mass production here, it's really not rocket science.

EDIT: Thinking about the above again, I'm fortunate enough to have a lovely greengrocers near me where I can buy single items. I always have tinned tomatoes and herbs in. So I could walk down to the grocers, buy one onion and a garlic for probably 30p (no idea, I never ask how much it is :p) and I don't need to make 4 portions to come out better off. Most supermarkets let you buy onions by weight don't they? And single bulbs of garlic?
 
Sorry but that's just completely untrue. Pre-made sauces simply wouldn't exist in the market if the manufacturers couldn't make any money on the end product :confused: Why would they make it and sell it otherwise... Raw ingredients will always cost less than ready-made sauces, or finished jars. I'm not going to pretend to know what big Italian chains like Zizzi's do but I think you'll find any semi-decent restaurant will be making sauces themselves...
Pre-made sauce manufacturers do make money, yes, but because they're able to negotiate far lower wholesale prices on their ingredients and still make enough sauce to sell to you for less than it'd cost you to scratch-make the same quantity, while still turning a profit. That's the point of them.

Mid-size or fancy restaurants often do, and are certainly expected to, make their own. Much of this is, like their food, produced off-site in bulk and only the final prep is done at the restaurant by an actual chef, but price is not the most defining factor for places like that.
However, very small and very big name chains and the like will get either pre-made sauces in massive bulk, or part-made as concentrates and components again in massive bulk, from broadline suppliers. Economy of scale. The likes of McDonalds don't scratch-make their sauces and neither will places like Bella Pasta and Zizzis, which is what I was getting at.

Agreed. And I'm telling you that if you buy a packet of 3 onions, a bulb of garlic and 4 tins of tomatoes (heck, chuck in some dried herbs if you want) you'll only need to make 3-4 double portions of sauce to come out the other side cheaper than having bought 3-4 double portions of jarred sauce. We're not talking mechanised mass production here, it's really not rocket science.
But we are still talking science, so I was looking for some reasonably well validated (but not necessarily exhaustively tested) numbers as to how much scratch-made sauce would be needed before it becomes cheaper than pre-made. Less precise calculation, but more definite than the rough guesses an opinions we've had thus far.
 
and still make enough sauce to sell to you for less than it'd cost you to scratch-make the same quantity, while still turning a profit. That's the point of them.
Honestly I still think you're confused why pre-made sauces exist in supermarkets. They're for convenience and there to save the consumer time - not money.
Much of this is, like their food, produced off-site in bulk and only the final prep is done at the restaurant by an actual chef
Again, I don't pretend to work in the restaurant industry but if you're talking about a half-decent independent restaurant (of which there are thousands in the UK) where exactly is "off site" for them? If they're a single site, say in a small market town, then I'd imagine all prep is done in the kitchen. There literally is nowhere else. I'm sure there are some more knowledgeable people here that can attest to this but your opinion of how restaurants work seems very bizarre as if they magic in half-made ingredients from a factory and warm them up. Yes that's true for a lot of terrible chains (and pubs) but not anywhere professing to be an actual restaurant experience.
numbers as to how much scratch-made sauce would be needed before it becomes cheaper than pre-made. Less precise calculation, but more definite than the rough guesses an opinions we've had thus far.
I'm telling you it's as small as one portion and you're not listening.

Loyd Grossman Tomato & Basil Pasta Sauce £1.90 (two servings)
Tomatoes (59%), Tomato Purée, Garlic Purée, Basil (2.5%), Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Sea Salt, Concentrated Lemon Juice, Ground Black Pepper

Bought separately (Tesco online, whatever came up first in my search) and divided down to 2 servings as per the jar;
  • Tinned tomatoes = 45p
  • Tomato puree = 45p / 5g required (tsp) = 1p
  • Garlic = 30p bulb / ~8 cloves per bulb / 1 clove required = 4p
  • Dried Basil 85p for 15g jar / 2g required = 11p
  • Sugar = 65p 1kg / 5g (1tsp) required = <1p
  • Sunflower oil = £2.10 1L / 10g required = 2p
  • Olive oil = £4.30 1L / 15g required = 7p
  • Sea salt = £1.20 for 350g / 4g required = <1p
  • Concentrated lemon juice = £1.10 for 500ml / 3ml required = <1p
  • Ground pepper = £2 for 100g / 1g required = 2p
Total = 75p

Happy? I even doubled up the oils which you wouldn't do when cooking from scratch. I also see no need for sugar or lemon juice but hey. Cost for dried basil also seems high but I'm bored with maths now.

EDIT: Thought I'd have a quick gander at Tesco's cheapest pasta sauces and besides one very dubious looking one at 39p there's nothing under 80p.

EDIT2: Hmn radio silence.. :o
 
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Bought separately (Tesco online, whatever came up first in my search) and divided down to 2 servings as per the jar;
  • Tinned tomatoes = 45p
  • Tomato puree = 45p / 5g required (tsp) = 1p
  • Garlic = 30p bulb / ~8 cloves per bulb / 1 clove required = 4p
  • Dried Basil 85p for 15g jar / 2g required = 11p
  • Sugar = 65p 1kg / 5g (1tsp) required = <1p
  • Sunflower oil = £2.10 1L / 10g required = 2p
  • Olive oil = £4.30 1L / 15g required = 7p
  • Sea salt = £1.20 for 350g / 4g required = <1p
  • Concentrated lemon juice = £1.10 for 500ml / 3ml required = <1p
  • Ground pepper = £2 for 100g / 1g required = 2p
Total = 75p
Not really the same if you're not using identical ingredients, not all tinned toms are equal, not all tom puree is equal, not all olive oil is equal, same with fresh vs dried herbs

The Grossman sauce though is best pasta sauce going, smells and tastes so fresh & vibrant not sure I could make it better myself even copying ingredients so it's worth the price

If you really want to go cheap though, watch Josh Weismann he does loads of "but cheaper"

 
Not really the same if you're not using identical ingredients, not all tinned toms are equal, not all tom puree is equal, not all olive oil is equal, same with fresh vs dried herbs

The Grossman sauce though is best pasta sauce going, smells and tastes so fresh & vibrant not sure I could make it better myself even copying ingredients so it's worth the price
No but as I posted above, it still beats other cheap jarred sauces. I think you’d be surprised what low quality ingredients “posh” jars of sauces use. Sugar and salt can work wonders..
 
No but as I posted above, it still beats other cheap jarred sauces. I think you’d be surprised what low quality ingredients “posh” jars of sauces use. Sugar and salt can work wonders..
There's plenty of pasta sauces using the same generic ingredients, they all taste vastly different, because the quality of ingredients aren't the same
 
There's plenty of pasta sauces using the same generic ingredients, they all taste vastly different, because the quality of ingredients aren't the same
Of course, but you go ahead and prove to me that Loyd is using Mutti San Marzano tomatoes in his sauces? I 100% doubt it.

The ingredients simply say Tomatoes (59%). On top of that, he doesn't even use fresh garlic or lemon as they are listed as garlic puree and concentrated lemon juice. I'm not sure where you are getting your "fresh and vibrant" flavours from as there's nothing in the ingredients or manufacturing that suggest that at all. A jarred sauce is the polar opposite of "fresh".

You could still improve my recipe above with some Cirio tomatoes (what we use) and fresh basil, and still come in under his price. You could probably get some fresh tomatoes and be under, too.
 
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Honestly I still think you're confused why pre-made sauces exist in supermarkets. They're for convenience and there to save the consumer time - not money.
No, this thread has already asserted that time is not so much a factor, as you can knock up a simple sauce in well under an hour. These things specifically provide financial convenience. They exist because you cannot buy only the exact quantity of ingredients required for one jar's worth of sauce.
Very few people want 20-30 portions of sauce and in a short enough space of time to financially justify making and using that much before it goes off.
It saves money and it saves wastage.

Again, I don't pretend to work in the restaurant industry but if you're talking about a half-decent independent restaurant (of which there are thousands in the UK) where exactly is "off site" for them? If they're a single site, say in a small market town, then I'd imagine all prep is done in the kitchen. There literally is nowhere else. I'm sure there are some more knowledgeable people here that can attest to this but your opinion of how restaurants work seems very bizarre as if they magic in half-made ingredients from a factory and warm them up. Yes that's true for a lot of terrible chains (and pubs) but not anywhere professing to be an actual restaurant experience.
My opinion of how restaurants work is informed solely by the explanations of friends and a spouse who work in them, plus a few who work for catering suppliers.
Many restaurants do have kitchens that are separate from the restaurant itself, with the latter being more of a heating/re-heating and plating-up area. Several of the Michelin starred restaurants nearby do it this way, although they do still scratch-make most things themselves... others mix scratch with pre-made, to varying degrees. Of course there is everything in between, depending on the size of the place and what works best for them.

I'm telling you it's as small as one portion and you're not listening.
:o
Pot, kettle.
You've proven how it's cheaper to make like-for-like sauce when broken down, but NOT how it's cheaper to actually acquire the ingredients in those quantities... because the point in this thread is that you cannot buy 11p of dried basil, a single tsp of puree, 7p of olive oil... Show me where you would go to purchase just 1g of ground pepper, or where will supply you 3ml of lemon juice... ?

Even if you only make one portion of sauce, you still have to buy a whole bottle of oil, a whole bulb of garlic, a whole pack of salt, and so on... THAT is where you save money when you, like many people, only want one jar of sauce. You'd have to make X jars of home-sauce before the cost of aquisition comes in under the costof just buying it in.

Yes in some respects, having ingredients that can be used for other recipes would negate some costs, but only if you make use of those recipes often enough... and that is further compounded by any additional ingredients needed for these other recipes, at which point those are also subject to this ever-widening picture and it carries on spiralling waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond just buying a ******* jar of sauce for under two quid!! :D


EDIT2: Hmn radio silence.. :o
Cor, impatient much?
How long did you leave it before expecting a reply and then whacking that edit in? 24hrs?
I'm usually away on Wednesdays, so it's a shame you had to wait so long for your argument to be challenged, but real life comes first.
 
They exist because you cannot buy only the exact quantity of ingredients required for one jar's worth of sauce.
They exist because people can't cook. Go and look at any taste test videos on YT. At the end of them almost everyone will say that making your own is cheaper, and tastier. And better for you because know what has gone into it with regards to sugar, salt etc.
Even if you only make one portion of sauce, you still have to buy a whole bottle of oil, a whole bulb of garlic, a whole pack of salt, and so on... THAT is where you save money when you, like many people, only want one jar of sauce. You'd have to make X jars of home-sauce before the cost of aquisition comes in under the costof just buying it in.

Yes in some respects, having ingredients that can be used for other recipes would negate some costs, but only if you make use of those recipes often enough... and that is further compounded by any additional ingredients needed for these other recipes, at which point those are also subject to this ever-widening picture and it carries on spiralling waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond just buying a ******* jar of sauce for under two quid!! :D
Ok well let's flip it on it's head. How many jars of sauce do you think your average non-cook might buy in their lifetime? Or even in a month? Because you keep banging on about only wanting one jar of sauce - yet we all know that's not true and people who can't cook will buy these week in, week out. By which point investing in a bottle of olive oil, onions and garlic, dried herbs would be well worth it. Even just over the course of 2-4 weeks accounting for how long it takes for garlic and onions to go off a bit. Olive oil and dried herbs will last a year, easy. If you buy jars of pasta sauce for 3 weeks you might use what, 3-4 jars? That's like £7. I won't waste my time doing the maths but I'm betting you're getting close to the same cost for all the ingredients I listed above, with loads to spare (oil, salt, herbs etc.) even after 3-4 cooks.

And that's not even taking into account other uses of said garlic, onions and herbs.
 
They exist because people can't cook. Go and look at any taste test videos on YT. At the end of them almost everyone will say that making your own is cheaper, and tastier. And better for you because know what has gone into it with regards to sugar, salt etc.

Ok well let's flip it on it's head. How many jars of sauce do you think your average non-cook might buy in their lifetime? Or even in a month? Because you keep banging on about only wanting one jar of sauce - yet we all know that's not true and people who can't cook will buy these week in, week out. By which point investing in a bottle of olive oil, onions and garlic, dried herbs would be well worth it. Even just over the course of 2-4 weeks accounting for how long it takes for garlic and onions to go off a bit. Olive oil and dried herbs will last a year, easy. If you buy jars of pasta sauce for 3 weeks you might use what, 3-4 jars? That's like £7. I won't waste my time doing the maths but I'm betting you're getting close to the same cost for all the ingredients I listed above, with loads to spare (oil, salt, herbs etc.) even after 3-4 cooks.

And that's not even taking into account other uses of said garlic, onions and herbs.
They may have come about because people can't cook, but they succeed and persist because they are cheaper one-off options than making your own at the same level.

As for how many jars people buy, I see a few multi-packs on the shelves, but the vast majority are single jars... So presumably most people buy fewer than four, but some buy the multis?
I also can't say I know many people with more than maybe two in their cupboards, even though they can't cook either, so I don't know who is buying that many... and for the record, we don't have any jars! :p

You won't do the maths, which is surprising seeing how keen you are to assert your argument, the results of which would also be exactly what I was asking in the first place... but when I did have a quick go myself, it did still need several jars' worth of home-made to draw even.
 
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