Patio Pointing Advice

[bettz]

I'm going to try and lay some grey Indian sandstone slabs next week with my dad and was wondering if anyone could recommend a good jointing compound?

Dad thinks we should use a 4:1 mix but we want the colour grey do people use dye's?

I was going to order some geo-fix mix and just brush it in then use a jointing tool any advice?

 

[j.col]

dont bother with a mortar 4:1 mix, it will crack within a few years and you will have weeds.

We use Azpects Easy joint, brilliant stuff, simply water salbs until soaking wet, sweep in easyjoint (still need to spray water whilst doing this) and sweep off
Sets in under 24 hours
Joint-It Simple is also very good, check your local builders merchansts (if any are open)

oh btw, the mortar mix that you are laying the slabs on can only be 8:1 which is plenty strong enough for slabs.
anything stronger eg. 6:1 wont be permeable and most jointing compounds wont cure properly

also what area and size slabs are you thinking of using?
the easyjoint website has an area calculator to tell you how much compound you will need

 

[bettz]

dont bother with a mortar 4:1 mix, it will crack within a few years and you will have weeds.

We use Azpects Easy joint, brilliant stuff, simply water salbs until soaking wet, sweep in easyjoint (still need to spray water whilst doing this) and sweep off
Sets in under 24 hours
Joint-It Simple is also very good, check your local builders merchansts (if any are open)

oh btw, the mortar mix that you are laying the slabs on can only be 8:1 which is plenty strong enough for slabs.
anything stronger eg. 6:1 wont be permeable and most jointing compounds wont cure properly

also what area and size slabs are you thinking of using?
the easyjoint website has an area calculator to tell you how much compound you will need

Cheers I've looked at a few geo-fix, sika I'll look at the others.

We're laying Indian sandstone 22mm calibrated a mixture of sizes the areas just under 15m2.

 

[j.col]

Havent tried geo-fix yet, but had bad results with sika, so we will never use it again

going by the clac here https://www.azpects.co.uk/easy-joint-calculator.aspx 1 tub should be enough if you keep the joints to 10mm, expect to pay £32-£35 a tub for easy joint, stone grey colour looks good btw

tip if you want it, lay these on a wet mix, 8:1 and when you lay the slab, give it a wobble so it sucks down properly

 

[bettz]

Havent tried geo-fix yet, but had bad results with sika, so we will never use it again

going by the clac here https://www.azpects.co.uk/easy-joint-calculator.aspx 1 tub should be enough if you keep the joints to 10mm, expect to pay £32-£35 a tub for easy joint, stone grey colour looks good btw

tip if you want it, lay these on a wet mix, 8:1 and when you lay the slab, give it a wobble so it sucks down properly

Cheers for the advice

Dad's not liking the jointing compound he's old school says it's a waste of money, just get some dye for the mortar and it'll save money.If it saves me time I'll go for it plus I'm worried about staining the slabs.

I'm not sure on how many tubs I'd need I'd imagine the joints to be between 10mm - 20 mm

That's what I get in a pack

900 x 600mm- 15 number
600 x 600mm - 15 number
300 x 600mm- 14 number
300 x 300mm - 16 number

It's hard to work out from there website

 

[j.col]

Its upto you, i have been laying slabs for over 25 years now and we havent used mortar for pointing in the last 10 -15 years.
Mortar will crack and split within a couple of years, and then weeds will grow, i can nearly guarantee it

Also its so much quicker to use the easyjoint, will take about 20 mins to do the patio comapred to 2-3 hours using mortar and it will save your knees lol.
As long as you use plenty of water whilst using easyjoint, it doesnt stain, you can never have too much water.
It is more expensive, but its quicker, stronger and uniform in colour.
Allow for 2 tubs, keep receipt, if you dont use second tub, return it.

Mixing dye into mortar, you have to be precise, if you have to mix 2 batches of mortar, you want the colour to be the same

good luck whatever you do, and maybe stick a pic up once its completed?

 

[ergonomics]

Had a crazy paved path to joint recently. Because the gaps between cracked slabs are bigger than your typical sandstone rectangualr slabbed patio, easyjoint was going to be about £300 to get the job done. Ended up spending about £35 and did it with mortar. Took me over a day and was quite boring but worth the cost saving for me to be honest. I was told to keep it relatively dry as a mix and just squish it into the gaps but as i went i made it a bit wetter which helped it get inte all the nooks and crannies. Pointing tool or some old hosepipe to smooth out the bits between slabs and you're good. You might get weeds/moss in a few years sure, depending on what you've laid slabs on and what's near the patio but even if that happens you can just re-do it and itll still be cheaper

 

[bettz]

Cheers for the advice guys.

Its a struggle to get sharp sand and bits at the moment.

Ill try the easyjoint if I can get hold of a tub and post a pic when done if it looks OK lol

Also not sure if we should move the slabs away from the house and do a trail of pebbles/slate or put the slabs up against the brick? We've already got slate around the outside of the garden. Any advice the hardest part is going to be the gate area.

 

[BennyC]

I re-pointed mine with 4:1 the other week, doesn't take that long if you just crack on with it.

As long as the mix isn't too wet it shouldn't stain. Suggest you youtube a few videos for an idea of the consistency if you go this route. Wipe them down afterwards too if you're worried.

I added a dye too, so I'd echo the sentiment to be precise or you will get variations in colour. Mix well. I added some SBR too to give it a little more workability.

 

[bettz]

I re-pointed mine with 4:1 the other week, doesn't take that long if you just crack on with it.

As long as the mix isn't too wet it shouldn't stain. Suggest you youtube a few videos for an idea of the consistency if you go this route. Wipe them down afterwards too if you're worried.

I added a dye too, so I'd echo the sentiment to be precise or you will get variations in colour. Mix well. I added some SBR too to give it a little more workability.

What dye did you add I've been looking at is Everbuild 208 Powder Mortar Tone in Black which makes grey.

What's SBR?

 

[j.col]

SBR is like an exterior version of PVA.
It does make mortar 'creamier' ie. softer so easier to use and has other water proof properties
When you use porcelain slabs they must be primed on the bottom with a slurry made with SBR
imo its not needed for sandstone

the trick with using powdered dye is to use buckets and a container for the dye.
eg. 4 buckets of sand, 1 bucket of cement and 1 measure of the dye. (for dry or liquid, an old babies bottle or cheap measuring jug is good, just remember how much you added)
this way you should get a consistent colour

 

[j.col]

Cheers for the advice guys.

Its a struggle to get sharp sand and bits at the moment.

Ill try the easyjoint if I can get hold of a tub and post a pic when done if it looks OK lol

Also not sure if we should move the slabs away from the house and do a trail of pebbles/slate or put the slabs up against the brick? We've already got slate around the outside of the garden. Any advice the hardest part is going to be the gate area.

As long as you have a decent fall away from the house, its upto you then.
we will try to have at least 20-25mm per metre using sandstone as they are a riven finish

at gate
just start from the slab thats cut around the pipe. i would cut a 300x300mm slab first and then work back from there, looking at pic, a 600mmx600mm could go next with the cut for the drain, i think you would struggle to cut a U shape from the middle of a 900 slab.
just try and have any cuts near the edge of a slab if possible (ignore this bit if your job is an L shape)

Is the gate area at the side of your house? in other words you have a patio and then a side path? like a L shape?
if so we will usually work from the patio to the path, we would start a the corner of the L so you dont have cuts along the house edge of the patio and path

 

[ANDARIAL]

My 2P worth
Use a liquid dye
Get a pointing gun
Use 4-1 mix
Gauge all parts to ensure an even colour/consistency
Re buckets of the ready mixed stuff.....I have a neighbour who swears by this even though he has to redo his joints every few years
Either he is doing it wrong or the compound he buys is rubbish
I did mine about 5 years ago with mortar and while yes there are a few cracks it is still a LOT cheaper than pre mixed and seems to be fine

 

[bettz]

As long as you have a decent fall away from the house, its upto you then.
we will try to have at least 20-25mm per metre using sandstone as they are a riven finish

at gate
just start from the slab thats cut around the pipe. i would cut a 300x300mm slab first and then work back from there, looking at pic, a 600mmx600mm could go next with the cut for the drain, i think you would struggle to cut a U shape from the middle of a 900 slab.
just try and have any cuts near the edge of a slab if possible (ignore this bit if your job is an L shape)

Is the gate area at the side of your house? in other words you have a patio and then a side path? like a L shape?
if so we will usually work from the patio to the path, we would start a the corner of the L so you dont have cuts along the house edge of the patio and path

Here's a better pic gate leads to our drive.

Also hoping I don't need to buy a bigger angle grinder I've a bosch 115mm Pro with a few diamond discs

 

[bettz]

Thought I'd post an update spent the last 2 days doing this happy with it although a few of the smaller slabs seem to throw out the joints which is annoying as some of the joints are slightly wider.

We left a small gap round the edge for slate, going to run a small bit up past the garage door to the post.

We also followed a pattern but got to the end and improvised on the last row, just 4 cuts to do tomorrow.

Got quite a few slabs left was tempted to curve the patio out into the grass in front of the doors more.

Hopefully it's ok first time doing a patio

 

[fobose]

Looks good! I've got exactly the same looking slabs and I think very similar if not identical pattern on mine which was here when I moved in. Only issue I have is all the mortar has fallen to bits and when walking bare feet I am often stepping on bits of it! Mine is quite large so a big job to re point. CBA atm.

 

[j.col]

Looking good op. yeah the small ones are slighly larger and do force the joints slightly wider, and you done the U cut around the gully, well done
Have you finished it yet?
Post a pic if so?

 

[bettz]

Looking good op. yeah the small ones are slighly larger and do force the joints slightly wider, and you done the U cut around the gully, well done
Have you finished it yet?
Post a pic if so?

Thanks

Almost finished

Decided to extend it out more with what we had leftover.

Used easyjoint yesterday and its got a quite strong plastic smell which has sent the ants crazy

Only thing I'm not happy with is I got lazy and left mortar on the sides of the slabs and didn't wipe them down which has given me more work think the mortar has reacted to the jointing compound,mates got some brick acid so I might try a bit of that on the bad areas

 

[bettz]

Thought I'd update my patio is still perfect.

My dad decided to use the same stuff on his new house as the pointing had all broken up around his slabs. He cleaned it all out, it was perfect for a few days once done but now it's coming up again he thinks it's due to a few ants nests anyone had this problem?