As far as I'm concerned that's out of order - I wouldn't consider working for a company that showed that level of disrespect for it's employees!
Pay when office is closed?
- Thread starter Russinating
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As far as I'm concerned that's out of order - I wouldn't consider working for a company that showed that level of disrespect for it's employees!
A lot of companies work on the profit regardless of personnel.
Pretty much every retail chain I know with someone working there will do their best to get out of holidays.
My favourite time was working in a certain pets store as manager they kept stalling bringing in anyone to cover for 11 months come 12 month couldn't take holiday being Christmas (fair enough) to only find out my holiday would go back into the companies wallet rather than being paid out.
Pretty much every retail chain I know with someone working there will do their best to get out of holidays.
My favourite time was working in a certain pets store as manager they kept stalling bringing in anyone to cover for 11 months come 12 month couldn't take holiday being Christmas (fair enough) to only find out my holiday would go back into the companies wallet rather than being paid out.
martinin where on earth are you working ! do you have a permanent contract ? surely they cant just tell you 2 weeks beforehand ''yea martini your going to have to take 12 days off holiday or go without pay'' ? even if they can legally then its wrong morally!
and you shouldnt be taking sick days as holiday either !
and you shouldnt be taking sick days as holiday either !
Caporegime
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I'm not entirely sure how sick pay works.
Lets say I came down with a bug and was off 2 days, would I be entitled to anything? At work now, I'd just lose 2 days.
Don't even ask about a contract, he tried to make us sign one when he was ramming clauses down us "I can take your phone off you, says in the contract" One I'd never seen nor signed (And still haven't signed) it's just a Marks and Spencers one with some alterations.
It's an apprenticeship and I'm 11 months in, I know that he's got every intention to keep me on afterwards.
Lets say I came down with a bug and was off 2 days, would I be entitled to anything? At work now, I'd just lose 2 days.
Don't even ask about a contract, he tried to make us sign one when he was ramming clauses down us "I can take your phone off you, says in the contract" One I'd never seen nor signed (And still haven't signed) it's just a Marks and Spencers one with some alterations.
It's an apprenticeship and I'm 11 months in, I know that he's got every intention to keep me on afterwards.
Pretty sure that would be illegal...
being an apprenticeship makes things a bit different but if you ever feel like something isnt quite right then just give ACAS a call. they will soon set you right and if needed set your employer right. youd be amazed how wrong even the biggest of companys get it. i work for one of the uks biggest employers and the amount of lads whove ended up claiming compensation after bosses have made up their own rules is just silly !
dont think statutory sick pay starts till youve had 3 days off , anything else is company dependant. there mayb be benefits you could claim if for example taking 3 days of brought your wage down so low that you couldnt manage
After 3 days you are legally entitled to SSP (~£85/week), but most decent companies will have a more generous policy in place - my current employer has full pay for a certain number of weeks (depending on length of service).
If you don't have a contract, you're opening yourself up to a whole load of dodgy treatment, so when you finish your apprenticeship, I'd be doing some negotiating, and make sure you get it in writing!
Edit: actually, I don't think SSP applies to apprenticeships, so basically you're stuffed, although it looks like you can claim ESA in some circumstances.
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Caporegime
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Well he sacked a lad who took 5 days off ill (And never got SSP), so I wouldn't want to risk taking off 3 and asking him about paying me 
There is a contract, but it's a marks and spencers one (And obviously he hasn't read through it properly either)
Well a lot of that is to do with the fact he doesn't seem to actually understand his obligations...
There is a contract, but it's a marks and spencers one (And obviously he hasn't read through it properly either)
Well a lot of that is to do with the fact he doesn't seem to actually understand his obligations...
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Indeed it is afaik. Thankfully I had saved/printed email correspondence with my regional manager. When it came to payday January they claimed because it wasn't taken it wouldn't be paid/rolled over(despite agreement). Conveniently an IT issue blanked the emails between me and my regional.
Small claims court saw me get my money and they were left rather abruptly without a manager for their store
Started my own business and haven't looked back.
What kind of apprenticeship are you doing martin?
Small claims court saw me get my money and they were left rather abruptly without a manager for their store
Started my own business and haven't looked back.What kind of apprenticeship are you doing martin?
Nope, SSP doesn't kick in for a while, you must be sick for 3 days in a row and most employers will require a sick note from a doctor.
Where I work now we get sick pay regardless, but as an apprentice it's incredibly unlikely you'll see such perks for many a year.
Maybe if you treated your staff better they wouldn't abuse the sick policy?
I get 26 weeks sick a year (plus an extra 'bank' of 26 weeks that doesnt reset due to my length of service) but I have had exactly 6 years in at least 10 years, and that was due to an operation. But I choose when I take my holidays (35.5 days a year minus bank holidays) so I never even thinkl to take the sick. Any shut-down at the companies discretion is paid leave be it an hour or a month.
It's a Fit Note now, not a sick note.
It does seem fairly nasty. He can perhaps be forgiven for not really knowing how to handle it if its his first employee but unless he wants to set off down a path of choppy industrial relations perhaps it might be time to look at how he is handling it.
It's not her fault he's decided there isn't much business around at Christmas and fancies a few weeks off. You can do that when you are your own boss and your own boss alone but once you start employing people you can't quite be as a flexible.
Has OP considered the cost of recruitment of a new employee vs the cost of paying the member of staff for that time?
This is what you might end up with if that is how you treat your employees when they look to seek alternative employment. Or the lost revenue from lack of staff motivation? Especially in a small business, happy staff = more productive.
I think had it been organised well in advance I would not see it as of much an issue, but to have the question with such short notice about your income being removed over the xmas period..... that would instantly have me searching the job boards.
This is what you might end up with if that is how you treat your employees when they look to seek alternative employment. Or the lost revenue from lack of staff motivation? Especially in a small business, happy staff = more productive.
I think had it been organised well in advance I would not see it as of much an issue, but to have the question with such short notice about your income being removed over the xmas period..... that would instantly have me searching the job boards.
Do you work in manufacturing?
The last place I worked gave 2 weeks off over Christmas with full pay and didn't take away any holiday time even though they were struggling with money. Moved to a new company yesterday that only partially close over Christmas, bank holidays off and some half days next week. Not sure if this will affect my wage but as I am on a set yearly salary I don't think it will.
I would have expected much more notice on being forced to either take unpaid days off or use my holiday allowance for it. At least 4 weeks to give me time to put some money aside for the unpaid period.
Unexpected bonus when I started yesterday, with only 2 weeks until the reset on annual leave (Jan-Dec cycle) I've been told I get 1 day and can take it whenever I want before the new year (normal notice required is 4 weeks). Means I can take a day off for my son's birthday on the 30th
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I would have expected much more notice on being forced to either take unpaid days off or use my holiday allowance for it. At least 4 weeks to give me time to put some money aside for the unpaid period.
Unexpected bonus when I started yesterday, with only 2 weeks until the reset on annual leave (Jan-Dec cycle) I've been told I get 1 day and can take it whenever I want before the new year (normal notice required is 4 weeks). Means I can take a day off for my son's birthday on the 30th
.One place I work at now closes the 20th Dec and back on 6th Jan and people have to use 7 days holiday entitlement for it.
Hell, a manufacturing place I worked at 10+ years ago had an enforced 2 week shutdown at Christmas and 1 week in June. The manufacturing staff had to take their holidays then, leaving only 1 week to take at any other time!
That place was especially victorian in their attitudes to the staff though, the factory staff had the old stamping clock in cards on the time machine and I was often being told to dock 15mins wages for someone being late. The factory managers definition of being late was even if the time card said 9.00 oclock, it was after the bell had rung at 9.00 but before 9.01...I used to fall out with her all the time, because I just used to ignore her and use my own discretion.
Hell, a manufacturing place I worked at 10+ years ago had an enforced 2 week shutdown at Christmas and 1 week in June. The manufacturing staff had to take their holidays then, leaving only 1 week to take at any other time!
That place was especially victorian in their attitudes to the staff though, the factory staff had the old stamping clock in cards on the time machine and I was often being told to dock 15mins wages for someone being late. The factory managers definition of being late was even if the time card said 9.00 oclock, it was after the bell had rung at 9.00 but before 9.01...I used to fall out with her all the time, because I just used to ignore her and use my own discretion.
Last place I forced you to take 5 days annual leave over the Christmas period but this was made up for at every bank holiday when we had 2 days off instead of 1 so overall it wasn't bad.
Current place do not force you to take any annual leave at the Christmas period but then we are open 365 days a year so someone has to work Bank holdays + Christmas + Boxing day + New years day. We take it in turns for Bank holidays but I worked Christmas+Boxing day last year and am doing it again this year (I volunteered) Due to the hassle I had on the 2 days last year my boss authorised my overtime (25 hours over the 2 days) at double pay and then gave me 4 days holiday as well We do however have to take sensitive leave for a minimum of 5 days in a row where our Work Pass, Remote access, AD account and Blackberry are all switched off and neither us or our company are allowed to contact each other. We get no time in lieu or overtime for week day work (You could work a 48 hour shift and go no extra for it besides maybe sent home to sleep for a day) but can get a bonus of up to 50% of your annual come May. All in all we are well looked after.
Current place do not force you to take any annual leave at the Christmas period but then we are open 365 days a year so someone has to work Bank holdays + Christmas + Boxing day + New years day. We take it in turns for Bank holidays but I worked Christmas+Boxing day last year and am doing it again this year (I volunteered) Due to the hassle I had on the 2 days last year my boss authorised my overtime (25 hours over the 2 days) at double pay and then gave me 4 days holiday as well
We do however have to take sensitive leave for a minimum of 5 days in a row where our Work Pass, Remote access, AD account and Blackberry are all switched off and neither us or our company are allowed to contact each other. We get no time in lieu or overtime for week day work (You could work a 48 hour shift and go no extra for it besides maybe sent home to sleep for a day) but can get a bonus of up to 50% of your annual come May. All in all we are well looked after.
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Last time I had to go off it was a sick note, it was only a year or so ago.
And it was basically just a bit of paper filled out by the doctor "Pitchfork has a shattered hand etc."