PC speaker advice.. already have a DAC/AMP + headphones

[aoaaron]

So I think I'm converted back to desktop gaming from lounge gaming. My ultrawide monitor has kinda convinced me to stay.

also I love my AKG 712s which felt weird to use in a lounge.

Anyway,

I need some form of speaker system please for my desk. I have a 5.1 + healthy subwoofer downstairs but I could do with something here.

At present I have:

1. Atom
2. AKG 712s
3. JDS atom atom


I'd like at least a 2.1 setup. I really do love subwoofers. I went overkill with my last subwoofer. I bought a monolith and its never gone above 40 percent volume because it causes my remote controls on the window sill to drop off.

Any reccomendations please on a nice audiosetup?

I don't think I need a 5.1 because its not practiclal in my desk environment but a nice 2.1 would be sweet for listening to music and youtube.

And any gaming or critical listening, I'll use my headphones in all honesty.

Thank you for any advice.

I have a huge preference to the KEF sound signature for reference and love a big soundstage although I don't think that really applies as much to speakers.

 

[aoaaron]

Personally I would consider the Edifier S350DB or the soon (allegedly) to be released S360DB.

Z reviewed the S350DB not that long ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH_-JqaAsOA&t=298s

i was going to get the S350DB but sadly i cant find a place to fit that subwoofer where it will look good so im thinking of giving it a miss... maybe i could put it under mybed? but i think wire placement with an integrated 2.1 active setup leaves me a bit ****d... at least with a separately bught sub i can buy a looooooong wire and put the subwoofer somewhere where it'll be more hidden and potentially better sounding.. !

The problem with almost all 2.1 setups is the satellite speakers are to small, because of this there is a gap in the mid range frequencies - basically the tiny drivers in the small satellites just can't reproduce mid ranges like vocals or piano correct. If it's things like films or games, this won't be a big issue, however for music your sometimes better with just good 2.0 speakers alone.

In a perfect world you should be using small 2.0 studio speakers, then adding a small sub. However this costs more money to put together.

im game for that.. which 2.0 speakers should i pick? i can add the sub later.. im not in a big rush as i'd potentially like to catch a cut price gemini.

my thought i just need a really easy to access volume knob lol.

my other options are a SMSL AD18 + some bookshelf speakers like the mission LX2s and then buy a subwoofer down the line.

 

[aoaaron]

I think passive speakers + something like the AD18 is a good idea. It gives you a good choice of speakers. If you were to look at powered speakers, then you'd need ones with a subwoofer out, and the choice is going to be significantly less.

I can't really advise on equipment however can give advice as to what to look for.

In my office I'm running an Edifier S530, however I have replaced the satellite speakers with larger speaker with 5" drivers.

These are the things that are important.

1) Your main sound quality comes from the 2.0 speakers (whatever you choose). The sub should only be for fill in, in other words the sub only makes up the lack of bottom end that's missing from the 2.0 speakers. I would say that you need at least 5" drivers to get some reasonable mid-range. This is why most people into music only run quality 2.0 speakers only. When everything is setup correct the sub should be invisible, obviously when it's disabled your ears notice the sound difference, however in your listening position it should sound like everything is coming from the 2.0 speakers.

2) It's really important to get some desk speaker stands. It's really important to get the 2.0 speakers at the correct height and listening angle. The other thing you must get is foam isolation to isolate the 2.0 speakers. If anyone does not believe this, pick up one of your desk speakers with it playing and see how the sound changes as it's moved and lifted from the desk. Another test you can do it put your hand flat on the desk while music is playing, If you can feel vibrations coming from the desk then your compromising sound due to poor isolation. Not having speaker isolation, or stands is like driving a car with worn bushes and the tracking wrong!

3) Final thing you need a good source, my experience motherboard audio is not that great. Finding a good amp with good DAC and running SPDIF or Toslink from the motherboards realtec is often is the best way of going. How much you spend on the amp is relative to the speakers, speakers should be priority as there putting music into the room. Also without good speakers you won't have the resolution to judge other things in the chain.

thanks.

due to space constaints, i've gone with Edifier S350DB.

i bought my KEF Q100s down to my desk and they just took too much space up.. and ideally they'd be very good bookshelf speakers for a 2.0 setup. also I'm not sure if i can deal with speaker wire being everywhere positioning was too hard and they were taking over the desk.


unless there are smaller amazing speakers available at the same size as the S350dbs satellties. i think im gonna go with that.

 

[aoaaron]

They will be good for what they are, as mentioned I run Edifier speakers myself, only issue I have is what looks like 4" drivers on the satellite speakers.

Also I noticed the S350DB's have a DAC, unless you have a source thats high quality, then Realtec into this will probably be best.

Going back to those 4" speakers and lack of mid-range. I found this video where someone was comparing S350DB's to R1700BT's. If you listen to vocal sections you see there richer on the R1700BT's due to bigger drivers. But do understand your space concerns, and as mentioned S350DB's will still be very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNWAFzwRDjc

do u know which port i should be plugging my edifers into when they come? (havent used PC speakers in ages)


Yeah if the 1700BTs had a subwoofer out, i would have nabbed them and brought a cheap second hand subby at some point. I know I could wire it from my PC with some converters but honestly i CBA with the whole faff.. and im trying to limit wires.

maybe im wrong but i'd rather have flexibility in being able to space them further away from the wall and position them towards the sweet spot than something bigger. i feel like i totally overlooked ergonomics and speaker placement/size in my home theatre room and it made set up a pain in the ass and even now i know im not utilising them to anywhere near what i should be.

thx for that comparison video. i thought the 350dbs were fuller and more balanced probably due to the sub overall.. but i do see where you're coming from.

for any critical listening where I want beautiful crystal clear vocals tbh.. I'm going to be using my AKG 712s.

What my AKG 712s can't do is offer that thumping vibrating bass...

so i think this 2.1 setup + my AKG 712s in theory should have me covered for most of my musical needs.


Ideally I would have loved to have just got an SMSL AD18 + some mission LX50s or kef Q100s and buy a cut price gimini subwoofer on sale... but man the wires and desk space would be a huge sacrifice for speakers which will efficevely be playing the odd song when I go in the shower or youtube video. Any PC gaming is going to be headset.

 

[aoaaron]

y

You don't mention what your PC sound source is, however I expect you want an SPDIF cable from your motherboard into the yellow SPDIF on rear of the S350DB's. Only exception is if you had a very good sound card, or quality external DAC then you may wish to use this instead and connect into one of the 2 RCA's. BTW some motherboards don't have an SPDIF connector, however the pins are normally on the mother board, then you just need to source SPDIF connector, OCUK don't appear to sell them however you can google for them. The DAC inside the S350DB's will be better then motherboard line out.

Re speaker positioning you want to get the satellite speakers on some stands, then use some isolation foam, can't stress how much difference these 2 things make. Not talking much money, £20 for some stands and £10 for some foam, and it will transform the sound.

I understand what your saying about space however. I'm using 2.5 x Ikea Galant Desks, this gives me a 12.5 foot long of wrap around desk space! Even with this I prefer having the amps inside the sub as to save space.

im running it off the motherboard ASUS Strix Z370-F if that helps in any way?

Haha your desk space is where bigger than mine!

Any sexy looking stands you could suggest and foam? I've just tried a little amazon and couldn't find any!


would this foam be alright? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07D52K1XD/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stageek-Al...&s=gateway&sprefix=speaker+des,aps,148&sr=8-6

do i need foam if i have stand?

 

[aoaaron]

I had a look at your motherboard again. You need a Optical Toslink cable with regular size connections on each end. This below

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ocuk-professional-toslink-cable-metal-3-meter-cb-005-op.html

I'm guessing that the DAC inside the Edifiers will be higher quality then the DAC / electronics on the motherboard, you will just have to try the Toslink, then try a regular RCA connection from the motherboard and judge for yourself.

Over speaker stands, search 'Gear4Music desk monitor stands' on the popular auction site. There are some out there for about £30, only issue is they might be a little to big for your speakers, however I can't find anything smaller.

The isolation foam you linked to is fine if running the above stands I mentioned.

Because of your smaller speakers, these Iso Acoustics ISO130's might be better. With these the you don't need any isolation foam either.

http://www.isoacoustics.com/product...solation-stands/iso-l8r130-speaker-isolation/

Do you think I should get the edifier 1850db instead and buy a separate subwoofer?
what would be the advantage vs disadvantage?

im considering refusing the parcel and getting the 1850 instead now..

would i get the best of both worlds if i got an 1850db and paired with a gemini using the subwoofer out or will there will be some form of cable issues im not seeing? (as far as i know it would just be a simple subwoofer wire from 1850db to subwoofer and im hoping their dac does the rest with crossover etc? )

 

[aoaaron]

The edifier 1850db's + subwoofer will be better.

Personally if it was me I would take the edifier 1850db's even without a sub woofer, but then I value better music / better vocals, and these will give you this due to bigger drivers. You will have the hassle of finding a matching sub-woofer, and possibly a bit more messing around with cables.

Also the edifier 1850db's angle up, there really made to sit on a desk, not really designed for stands.

As you say i'm guessing but the edifier 1850db's cross should handle the correct output for the sub.

thanks man.
i kept listening to that six track compilation and although the 350db had a fuller sound (cos of the subwoofer), i felt like i was missing detail and texture to the vocals (and pretty much everything else). it was sacrificng a commplete sound over a better one.

any suggestions on a decent sub? I was just going to stalk second hand forums and wait for a gemini to come up. do you know any good small subs? I'm a bit tight on space sadly.

also down the line i've realised that a second subwoofer can always just be banged into a home theatre room whilst the sub with the edififers actually tie me down in terms of the versatility of the speakers.

you really did open my mind and educate me in regards to mid range.. I was so focussed on the bass and highs being alright but the loss of detail was evident. I tried to convince myself it wasn't but even doing a blind test with my sister, she was able to pick out the better vocals which surprised me.

 

[aoaaron]

For films and games, you want the high's and the big lower end. However for music you want a more balanced sound, as mentioned the sub only providing fill in for missing frequencies. For example if you go in a recording studio there is no subs, just very good quality left and right speakers.

Unfortunately I can't recommend a sub as I don't have enough experience of different ones.

I can give you one suggestion, however it's a bit far out, you could just copy my setup. The S530/S530D's look discontinued but there is stock still out there. I did see a second hand S530D for £125 in Germany. Then you would have to source some good 2.0 speakers, but once you have the S530's you could keep returning the 2.0 speakers until you found something you liked. As mentioned it's a bit far out this, however it's the sort of thing I would do.[/QUOTE


Hmm I think that'll be too complicatred.

Do you think the 1850dbs are enough or is there an alternative speaker with subwoofer out i should consider?
I'm a bit sad that as far as I know I'm losing APTX from the speakers but its only a small issue as its going to be wired nearly all of the time.

 

[aoaaron]

It's all a compromise, I think you be happy with just the 1850's. With the option of sub out on the 1850's, at least you have option in future to add one, so it makes the 1850's quite viable. I think the 1850's with a matching sub would be a very good quality desk setup.

Remember with audio it does not go out of date like other PC equipment, so if you get a setup you like, it could be in use for 10 years plus.

With music/sound there is no rules, it's only important that your setup sounds good to yourself.

Yup you're right.. its one of the reasons I really wanted to go passive. I have some Mission LX2s for £49.99 but I think they're just going to be so bit and I can't find an amp/dac to drive them with a reasonable enough price and a sub out.

yeah i should just get the 1850s i guess and call it a day. im still wary if they'll fit on my desk with this big ass monitor.

 

[aoaaron]

Have you considered mounting the speakers off the desk, by this i mean at the sides of your desk on floor standing speaker stands.

Search 'QTX Studio Monitor Speaker Stand' on the popular auction site.

Again you maybe have an issue with the 1850's as they sit pointing upwards, and you really need flat sitting speakers for stands.

i dont want stands. i dont mind speaker stands for the desk but the sides of the desk aren't a possibility. i'll get the 1850s, possibly some isolation foam pads down the line.
next im going to email bk and ask them if they can make shave some cm off the body of the bk gemini so i can fit it around my desk.

 

[aoaaron]

I don't know anything about the bk gemini sub, however it looks very good quality.

Remember when you get your new speakers, run them in. Start on say 10% volume, then gradually increase power over next 20-40 hours. What I do is leave speakers playing on low level initially, then just walk away. What is happening is the speaker fabric is stretching over this time. One thing to avoid on a new speaker is driving them at high volumes immediately as speaker can be compromised forever.

Another thing that might help, is the Tacima mains conditioners, they cost about £30-35. It depends on the condition of your mains electric's but I've had great success with these improving the sound.

im still trying to find a decent sub for this setup.. i was just gonna get a gemini then i've read reviews the xl200 is better.. and it is a bit shorter... but then they both dont have an auto off function which is a bit annoying.

i dont mind that in my home theatre room but in my bedroom i'd prefer it turns off if needed..

 

[aoaaron]

The Edifiers look good. I have owned and gifted a few sets and have always been impressed.
monitor speakers are simply easier, requiring fewer components.
I've been thinking about upgrading to the edifier r1280db.

Not sure if this helps, but I run everything in office from 2 x Tacima power strips. When the computer is off I switch the Tacima strips off on the wall, then everything from then on wards is fully off. Then when i'm using the office I switch them back on again. I've got triple monitors, and LED lights coming from the strips and it all gets isolated together.

Got them today and installed them in.

I'm honestly re-evaluating my whole audio beliefs.

For the size, ergonomics, these are INCREDIBLE. The volume it packs is insane. No need for some crap desk amp which only drives them to a certain level or speaker wire everywhere. When did active speakers get this good? I'm 100% sure at this price range they weren't like this 10 years ago.


And I did my normal test of speakers when I know if they're good or not. Does playing them louder make you want to turn them down or not? And honestly, I could just blast these all day. How they manage to not dirtort and way too high for desk levels is incredible. The bass is very very prominent too which I'm surprised with. I did my second test of playing good music (stevie wonder, frank sinatra blahblah vs crap modern music.. normally on crap speakers, i end up preferring the simpler crap... but yeah these passed the test). also I'm very very surprised that its not bad at resolving detail. detail which I honestly don't pay much attention to.

I'm so glad I didn't go with the 350db now because I already feel like this ammount of bass is enough. Anything more would be definitley too muddy. For anyone who has never used a subwoofer, these would definitley be enough. Heck for me.. these are enough. I'm just obsessed with refining and I think the subwoofer will be the final icing on the cake for my desk setup.

Build quality is excellent to the extent I think Edifier will be my next high end audio purchase brand. The build quality is basically like my KEFs...

Thank you JasonM. The midrange on these I feel is enough... the 350db would have been a muddy letdown for my ears as I'm not a bass head.... only in very specific circumstances do I love bass (films, dancing before a night out, gaming and the thumping heartbeat in dishonored 2)



_____________

for someone new to audio, i used to tell them to get a second hand amp and a 2.0 speaker setup from ebay or a clearance line and then get some speaker wire and have fun, then add in a sub later to complete the package.

im so tempted now if its not for a home cinema room (/5.1) to just tell them to get a pair of actives which have a sub out.. why deal with all the faff...




oh and this is all without it being connected via fibre optic because i broke the cable when unpacking it..

 

[aoaaron]

I'm glad I could help, sometimes I feel i'm not that listened to here, on this occasion it appears I've helped .

Don't run those new speakers to hard, they need gentle run in, and I guarantee they will get better over the next couple of days. As speakers run in you will get a more dampened / smoother / rounded sound from them.

Re-bass. In my front room I run Yamaha floor standing speakers (4 main speakers actually + 2 surrounds), they are just setup neutral so cover music, films anything I want. However on certain frequencies I've had the inside door handle in my hallway resonating from very low frequencies (and this is without a sub).

You do need to get your speakers isolated, put your hand flat on the desk with them playing, if you can feel the bass on the desk (that you will) that is muddying your sound.

Also you need to try the DAC thats inside the speakers, as I suspect it will be better then the DAC/Output stage that's on your motherboard.

On the DAC... yeah im so dissapointed the fibre optic cable broke. A new one is coming tommorow so I'll give it a play!

My desk is granite so I don't think I'll feel any vibrations but lifting them up does make the sound feel cleaner.

I've just ordered these. Stageek Aluminum Desktop Speaker Stands as i could do with putting my amp/dac for my headphones under the speaker to make things a bit tidier.

do u think those will do the job? (on the rain forest cant link due to competitor i think)

 

[aoaaron]

I found the ones on the rain forest. I think they will be worse than the height adjustable ones I mentioned. The height adjustment is quite important, just an inch makes a difference to how the sounds hits your ears. Also just 5+/- degrees of angle makes a difference to how they sound.

These are mine, the picture is misleading as it's taken from top down, however those speakers are sitting 13inch from the desk, if I could take them another inch higher I would but that's limit of stand. Also ignore the fact they are sitting at an angle, I tried them all ways round and that is what sounds best, namely the tweeters sound better in phase like this.

The above speakers are then powered by a S530 below, then I use an Asus Essence ST into the S530.

https://www.edifier.com/ua/uk/speakers/s530d-2.1-subwoofer

I have considered changing my 2.0 speakers out for some Yamaha's that would be better quality, downstairs in my lounge I have proper Pioneer separates and Yamaha speakers, however my office setup is good enough for music while working, so leaving it as it for now.

Hmm.. its a tough one. I wanted the stargeek ones because ergonmically they looked really nice.

can you link me to the stands your referencing and I'll have a look at them? Ideally I want something clean looking for the desk setup. the fact the stand would give me desk space is kinda a big deal.

 

[aoaaron]

These are what i'm using above.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Desktop-...005320&hash=item4663b7fffd:g:1SIAAOSwVP5cLgix

Same company make these, but there over double money and not sure how high they go

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deluxe-T...008422&hash=item52123b770b:g:CG0AAOSwF~hbzXhD

That's the foam i'm running
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01JRU328U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are meant to be good also. There is a youtube channel called PS Audio, and they recommended them.

https://www.studiospares.com/Access...ViL_tCh2JTgkxEAQYAiABEgL8mPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Hope i'm ok with these links....

thanks mate! just check them out on youtube.. i think their dimensions might be too big for my desk..

 

[aoaaron]

Is there any space in front of your desk, if so these might work.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clamp-Moni...&qid=1562708098&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-26

nope. gotta keep it as clean as possible. sadly space is just not available in this setup . the ultrawide has made sure of it.

as far as i know if i get the stargeek stands i shouldnt need foam ?

 

[aoaaron]

Just looked again at them. They have some anti-vibration properties, however can't see how the anti vibration can match actual foam.

All I can really say is try them, see how they go.

Yup I'll have a go! I need to stop obsessing over these speakers soon as these were just meant to watch youtube videos and play music when i get out of the shower.. anything serious music gaming is the AKGs, and any video/film watching is the KEFs..