PC won't start - PSU problem?

[MarkPW]

My computer turned itself off yesterday after making a clicking noise. When I attempted to turn it back on I could smell burning and the monitor remained in idle. I switched it off, took the hard drives to test on another system (as I thought I could smell the hd's burning) - they are fine. I've tried re-connecting them back up, but the computer will not respond when I attempt to switch it on. Furthermore, when I connect the power to the PSU (a Hiper 650W) a continuous high pitched alarm type sound is emitted from the computer, yet the fans do spin (when in idle [warming up?]).

I daren't do anything until I have some idea about what that alarm means and I was hoping somebody on here would be able to shed some light on this.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[Teaf]

Hiper

That probably explains a lot

I would remove the power supply from the case. Take a smell near a fan and see if it smells like it's burnt. If it does then it's your power supply is mostly dead. The high pitched whine noise is most likely a "insufficient power" noise coming from the machine as the Hiper is dying / almost dead, but not 100% sure on that. If you really wanted to check the power supply then you could remove it's outer casing and check for any burnt parts inside, mostly around capacitors. Mind you, doing that *may* invalidate your warranty, so I would double check about that on the Hiper website, also try not to shock yourself!

 

[MarkPW]

Thanks for your reply flibby. For my own safety I think it's better I don't mess with the PSU, so I'll assume it's dead. What PSU would you recommend me replace it with? Unfortunately, my warranty is already invalid as I've lost the receipt and I bought it over 12 months ago so can't send back to Overclockers.

Also, I don't need anything exceeding 550-600W.

Thanks for your help

 

[Teaf]

Thanks for your reply flibby. For my own safety I think it's better I don't mess with the PSU, so I'll assume it's dead. What PSU would you recommend me replace it with? Unfortunately, my warranty is already invalid as I've lost the receipt and I bought it over 12 months ago so can't send back to Overclockers.

Also, I don't need anything exceeding 550-600W.

Thanks for your help

If you were going to replace it I would recommend a Corsair HX520W. It's "only" 520W but will easily handle most systems, such as a quad core with a 8800 GTX. If you really wanted more wattage then they also do a Corsair HX620W version. But I would definetly somehow make sure that the PSU is dead before replacing it, just in case you find out after buying a new PSU that it's not dead.

 

[McMav]

Hehe I had similar problem with my new build. I used corsair 520w coz its a good one

I completed the built pressed power on button light came on than nothing :S

took an hour plugging things in and out to work out that my floppy drive was the cause of the problem. This probs isnt the case with you but I would reccoment a 520w corsair

 

[MrSeanKon]

Other one vote for Corsair 520 Watt (although I love Enermax PSUs)...

 

[MarkPW]

I bought and installed a new 400W Akasa PSU from OC (as flibby suggested in my other thread) and the computer still won't turn on. The old PSU was definitely faulty as I tried connecting the power to it whilst disconnected from the PC itself and it began emitting a burning smell and making the high pitched alarm type noise I described above.

I've tried disconnecting certain components (floppy drive etc) to no avail. When I connect power to the machine the light surrounding the on/off button remains on.

Any ideas what the problem could be?

 

[pastymuncher]

I bought and installed a new 400W Akasa PSU from OC (as flibby suggested in my other thread) and the computer still won't turn on. The old PSU was definitely faulty as I tried connecting the power to it whilst disconnected from the PC itself and it began emitting a burning smell and making the high pitched alarm type noise I described above.

I've tried disconnecting certain components (floppy drive etc) to no avail. When I connect power to the machine the light surrounding the on/off button remains on.

Any ideas what the problem could be?

Hiper's are known to take out other components when they fail. Mine took out a motherboard and the same thing happened to another guy last week.

 

[MarkPW]

Damn! I've never replaced the mobo before. The current one is a FIC VL33 (Socket 478) but I can't seem to find this model. Is it feasible to install another 478 board without formatting my hard disk?

Thanks

 

[Teaf]

It's always best to format when you install a new motherboard or you'll have nightmare problems with the drivers conflicting. Sorry to hear the PSU didn't work, and it does sound like your Hiper has possibly took another component with it. After hearing all the horror stories about Hiper PSU's I don't think I'll ever buy one of their products.

 

[MarkPW]

That's first and last Hiper product I'll buy. As for the new mobo, I think I'll sod it and get a new quad core machine. I've been looking at the full systems from Overclockers as I don't really have time to build my own - is there any particular one you would recommend for around £1200 or can you recommend a machine offered elsewhere? I'm not too concerned about peripherals and as long as the machine is quiet, I'm happy.

Thanks again!

 

[Teaf]

That's first and last Hiper product I'll buy. As for the new mobo, I think I'll sod it and get a new quad core machine. I've been looking at the full systems from Overclockers as I don't really have time to build my own - is there any particular one you would recommend for around £1200 or can you recommend a machine offered elsewhere? I'm not too concerned about peripherals and as long as the machine is quiet, I'm happy.

Thanks again!

Unfortunatley we cannot link to other sites, as they class as competitors. The OcUK systems are really good systems however, plus a lot of them come pre-overclocked and warranty covering that. If you do not need a monitor included with your £1,200 then I would opt for the Ultima 8800 GTX system which comes in just under £1,200. It's a really superb system and all the parts are top notch and up to date. There is another system which is the Ultima 8800 GTS which is about £100 cheaper but it doesn't include a keyboard and mouse, the graphics card is also worse.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-032-OK

 

[MarkPW]

I understand the competitor thing and I'm sure OcUK systems are decent enough - just not too fond of the case and it's very visible lighting on the front (unless it can be turned off?). It's for my living room that doubles up as my office you see.

As for the systems you recommended (and thank you for taking the time to write all that), I would prefer a quad core system as I do quite a bit of video editing in Sony Vegas and graphic/print design in Photoshop. I'd also like the system to be as future proof as possible.

EDIT: I was also wondering, ATI vs nVidia - is it personal preference or is one better than the other?

 

[Teaf]

Good Morning

I understand the competitor thing and I'm sure OcUK systems are decent enough - just not too fond of the case and it's very visible lighting on the front (unless it can be turned off?). It's for my living room that doubles up as my office you see.

You might be able to contact them and ask them to change the case, unless they already have the systems pre-built then they might do that for you. You could switch it for something like the Antec P182 which is a phenominal case and only costs about a tenner extra although might be a bit more due to switching the case. If it's already pre-built then they might not exchange it, but it's worth contacting them anyway

There is a note I noticed on the page that states "Note - All Ultima systems are built and installed on demand" so I'm guessing that all their systems are not pre-built and they are built when ordered, so changing the case could be an option. I've seen a few people that are put off by the case when ordering these systems, I'm quite suprised that OcUK don't offer a change in case as standard for people... might be due to a surplus of this case or might size restrictions so not sure.

As for the systems you recommended (and thank you for taking the time to write all that), I would prefer a quad core system as I do quite a bit of video editing in Sony Vegas and graphic/print design in Photoshop. I'd also like the system to be as future proof as possible.

Yeah I'd definetly get a quad if you do video editing, as the quad gives a very good performance boost of a duo for that purpose. See below for recommendations

I was also wondering, ATI vs nVidia - is it personal preference or is one better than the other?

Nvidia currently dominate the really high end graphics card market, as they have the GTX and the Ultra which are unmatched by ATI at the moment and probably will be unmatched until both manufacturers release their new cards. Other than that if you were going for the mainstream/high end then you have the 8800 GTS 640MB and the 2900 XT and that's mainly down to personal preference and both cards are near enough the same power as the other.

The system that I can recommend that you would be interested in and is very good is the Ultima 2900, it features really up to date components in it and is quite future-proofed for games and other stuff (like video editing due to it's quad core). I would have supplied an Nvidia alternative but the only other is the 8800 GTS 320MB model which is slower than the 2900 XT, and £50 cheaper. Both systems were identical however except the power supply and the 2900 XT arguably has a better power supply in it (Enermax vs. OCZ). The only way to really pick which parts you want is to buy the components seperately and build it yourself, but as you don't want to do that I would recommend the Ultima 2900.

If you were to pick your own parts and build it yourself you could probably get something better due to being able to pick your own parts, and something like the following (pro's and con's are weighted against the Ultima 2900 XT, the pros are pluses for getting your own parts, the cons are pluses for getting a pre-built and cons against building yourself).

Pro's
+ Much better graphics card, will last you longer
+ Double the RAM (4GB in total)
+ 300GB more hard drive space
+ Better, quieter and more elegant case
+ A top-notch sound card, as opposed to onboard
+ A SATA DVD-Drive and a newer model at that
+ Better, higher quality power supply
+ £50 cheaper

Cons
- Motherboard has less features
- There is no overclock on the machine
- RAM is natively slower (8500 vs. 6400)
- You have to build it yourself, this does take time.
- Guaranteed stability of the machine and no DoA parts
- Warranty includes the overclock which is rare, and very good

If you did take the Ultima 2900 option then you'll be very happy with the system, it saves you a lot of time building it yourself and due to it's status of being a pre-built you'll have better direct help from the OcUK tech support. In this respect I mean that they built the machine, overclocked it and fiddled with it and if something goes wrong they will probably know better at what's wrong with the machine that they would with a PC that you built yourself from components. They still provide excellent support on other components however. If you decided to go for the option where you have to build it yourself, you'll again be very happy and you will have a really great system and better than the pre-built, but you will have to build it yourself and it does take some time - alas, time which some do not have. If you decided that route though and you need any help with it, just post back and we'll help you out as much as humanly possible.

Either way, it's win/win and you can't lose, you just have to decide which route is best for you.

PS. Sorry for the wall of text

 

[MarkPW]

Wow - thanks for such a thorough reply flibby.

I'm in two minds whether to build my own or go with pre-built. The only thing that concerns me with self building is I wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to overclocking, of which is maybe not necessary but I want to make the most out of my investment. I've never installed a CPU either which kind of scares me.

Also, the future proof is a big thing for me. I'm seeing these DDR3 motherboards and memory appearing aswell as SLi / crossfire stuff. Is it worth dishing out extra money to get these?

Thirdly, I really haven't a clue what form factor would be more suitable for me. I notice you suggested the P182 Midi Tower, which I prefer to the Nine Hundred the pre-built systems come with. Do you know if there's much difference in space between these cases and do the capabilities between motherboard factors differ much? I'm worried of being limited if I need to add more PCI components. Space wise, I'm more interested in space for hard drives as I'm looking to install maybe 4 drives with the master drive on a RAID 1 setup (which is another thing I haven't done before).

Thanks again for your time and for bearing with me flibby - it's very much appreciated. I loath decision making, especially when forced into it by a failed computer

 

[HangTime]

I wouldn't worry about DDR3 at the moment - still in its infancy and very expensive.
Future-proofing is very hard to do in terms of looking more than a couple of years ahead - in many cases it's actually more economical to just buy something mainstream now, and then upgrade in a couple of years.

Obviously for people apprehensive about meddling inside a PC themselves they want something that will last, but I don't think it is worth breaking the bank for. Something like the ultima system mentioned above should last you a fair while.

 

[Teaf]

I'm in two minds whether to build my own or go with pre-built. The only thing that concerns me with self building is I wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to overclocking, of which is maybe not necessary but I want to make the most out of my investment. I've never installed a CPU either which kind of scares me.

Yeah overclocking is one of the features of the pre-built if you aren't familiar with overclocking yourself. But I guess some would say that to be able to manage your overclock from a pre-built is important even if you never had to do the overclock in the first place. I guess it might be okay as you can just write down all the settings in the BIOS, then if you ever needed to reset the CMOS or the battery died and it cleared itself you can then just redo the overclock with the settings that were there originally as you have them written down and know what works. I'm sure the OcUK tech support would help with that also if you got a little stuck as they did the overclocking originally.

Also, the future proof is a big thing for me. I'm seeing these DDR3 motherboards and memory appearing aswell as SLi / crossfire stuff. Is it worth dishing out extra money to get these?

Regarding DDR3, I'd agree with Hangtime and that DDR3 currently is not worth it - and it's probably not going to be worth it for a while yet maybe even a year. This is due to the memory not being 'much' faster than DDR2 (although it is faster). The clock speed is a lot faster but the timings are so loose that the RAM won't be as fast as it should have been. When DDR3 comes down to acceptable prices (sub £150 for 2GB) and with speeds of 1800Mhz and cas timings of 5 or 6 then it's time to buy it, and I just can't see that happening for a while yet.

SLI is currently not worth it, neither is Crossfire (SLI is Nvidia's version of dual graphics cards working together, and Crossfire is the same however it's ATi/AMD's own name for it). Boards previous of X38 never ran in dual PCI-E 16x mode, and the 2nd card only ran in 4x mode. Whilst this is still not bad it really does impact performance somewhat. Drivers and games also need to be tailored to SLI/Crossfire. Although you can use SLI/Crossfire without proper support, but the performance is not going to be that much better than a single card. Another reason to avoid it is that buying 2 cards normally equates to more than 1 single card of a higher performance. Such as 2x 8800 GTS 320MB cards is more (£176 x 2 = £352) than a single 8800 GTX (£300) and doesn't perform as well as the GTX. I more see SLI/Crossfire as:

• Purely for benchmarks and people in the 3d Mark 06 ladders
• A cheaper upgrade to an existing machine.
• Wanting to try it out for the first time.

The first is where it matters a lot, and dual graphics cards will help massively in 3d Mark 06 tables which is why some people show them off in there. The 2nd reason is a good one - for example if you have a dual graphics card motherboard and want a cheap upgrade and already have 1 card, you can just buy another at a low cost and run them together if you're really on a tight budget.

Thirdly, I really haven't a clue what form factor would be more suitable for me. I notice you suggested the P182 Midi Tower, which I prefer to the Nine Hundred the pre-built systems come with. Do you know if there's much difference in space between these cases and do the capabilities between motherboard factors differ much?

Antec 900 and Antec P182 are both quite spacious cases, although you will find more space in the P182 due to it's extremely good cable management where you can route cables from the power supply / sata cables / ide cables and so forth up the back of the case behind the motherboard leaving your system cable-free and therefore increasing airflow in the system and ultimately providing excellent and very quite cooling.

Space wise, I'm more interested in space for hard drives as I'm looking to install maybe 4 drives with the master drive on a RAID 1 setup (which is another thing I haven't done before).

ATX is the main form factor you'll come across yourself. Most of the mainstream components are of this form factor.[/quote]I would like to point out in the P182 however, and I'm not sure if it's the case with the Antec 900, but you WILL have to remove the middle hard drive bay to fit a huge graphics card in such as the 8800 GTX, 2900 XT or the 8800 GTS. They are that long that you need to remove them because you cannot fit hard drives in that bay with one of those graphics card in. That means you loose 2x hard drive slots.

The P182 does have an alterantive hard drive bay at the bottom of the case where you can store 4 additional hard drives, and if you needed more space you can purchase something like a Thermaltake iCage which uses the spare 5.25" bays and turns them into hard drive bays.

Both the Antec 900 and P182 also support full ATX boards and half-sized ATX boards natively. An example would be my old board which was the Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 is a half sized ATX board, and my new one is a Abit IP35 Pro which is a full sized board and they both fit fine.

I'm worried of being limited if I need to add more PCI components.

You should be fine if you went for a P182 - I currently have a 2900 XT which is a double slot card, along with a Creative X-FI Xtreme Gamer and a Nebula DigiTV PCI tuner and I have sufficient space for both of those with space to get another card in if needed.

Thanks again for your time and for bearing with me flibby - it's very much appreciated. I loath decision making, especially when forced into it by a failed computer

Not a problem and yeah it is hard to make decisions on new computers, when I upgrade my own I tend to spend ages looking at the parts I'm getting, reading reviews and so forth to make sure I really want the bits I'm planning on getting and that does take a lot of time. In this instance however you are sorted for whichever you decide to go with (pre-built or not pre-built) however I would definetly contact OcUK first and check with the pre-built in case they can change the Antec 900 case for a P182 case. If they cannot then it might make your decision easier, however I'd be suprised if they wouldn't change it since the systems are not built and are only built on demand.

 

[MarkPW]

After pondering all day long, I am "probably" better getting the full system and it's a toss up between this and this. Do you think the nVidia 8800GTX card is worth getting over the ATI 2900 XT? I am stretching my budget a little as I'm thinking of going with 4GB total memory and Vista Ultimate (total £1500), but if it's going to be worth it I don't mind.

With all that said (grrr!), I still like the sound of picking my own components and building it myself, but as I mentioned yesterday, the only thing putting me off is the overclocking. Is it simple enough to overclock the CPU and memory? If I were to build myself, what could I get for around £1,500 (that needs to include 4GB memory and Vista Ultimate)?

Once again, thank you!

 

[Teaf]

After pondering all day long, I am "probably" better getting the full system and it's a toss up between this and this. Do you think the nVidia 8800GTX card is worth getting over the ATI 2900 XT? I am stretching my budget a little as I'm thinking of going with 4GB total memory and Vista Ultimate (total £1500), but if it's going to be worth it I don't mind.

The 8800 GTX is a significant upgrade over the 2900 XT, but really only if you have the monitor to match it. If you were gaming at something like 1440x900 then there probably isn't a lot of point getting the upgrade. If you are 1680x1050 or above then it's worth it more. The card is definetly worth the upgrade in price, but not so sure on the Vista Ultimate and 4GB of RAM option. 4GB of RAM will prove better in the long haul, and Vista Ultimate probably won't have many features you'll need over Home Premium version. If you did have the money for it then I would get the 8800 GTX system with Vista Ultimate. But if you had to drop it down in price, then I would remove Vista Ultimate first, then back down to 2GB, then if you wanted to go further drop it down to the 2900 XT system.

With all that said (grrr!), I still like the sound of picking my own components and building it myself, but as I mentioned yesterday, the only thing putting me off is the overclocking. Is it simple enough to overclock the CPU and memory? If I were to build myself, what could I get for around £1,500 (that needs to include 4GB memory and Vista Ultimate)?

Overclocking isn't really that bad. But it does take a long time to get everything set up and working properly (stable setup). The overclock OcUK provide is quite a large overclock and it'll be difficult to match it - but it is possible of course. Being a beginner though in overclocking it might prove difficult. The system itself however at stock isn't exactly bad, it'll be a very powerful setup and very fast, so you might not need to even overclock at all when you get the machine and have a whirl with it. Just a note on 4GB also - it's more difficult to overclock and probably not possible to reach the overclock set by 2GB.

Made you a machine below for £1,500. This is probably the best you'll get for that price and is a real beast of a machine even at stock. Doesn't include a monitor, but if you wanted one you could still get a monster of a machine and a nice 22" - 24" monitor for £1,500. If you wanted one with that price, just say and I'll rebuild the spec to include one.

Couple of notes on the spec:

1. The 92mm fan is for the HR-03 which is an aftermarket cooler for your 8800 GTX. It's very easy to fit, and you just need to remove the stock cooler and place the HR-03 in place of it and strap the Akasa Amber 92mm fan to it. It'll be quieter and cooler overall.

2. The 120mm Akasa amber is for the Thermalright Ultra Xtreme 120 cooler as it doesn't come with one with it. You get some fan brackets with the cooler and fitting the fan is very simple (just need to place the fan onto the cooler and attach the brackets).

Sound card is included, not sure if you needed one so if you don't just remove it from the spec. I've also included some thermal paste into the specification for the fitting of the CPU cooler and the 8800 GTX cooler. If you didn't want the HR-03 either you can just drop it and the 92mm Akasa Amber and use the stock 8800 GTX cooler and you'll be closer to £1,400 which is a very good price.

[EDIT]: Added a spec with a monitor also, 24" Samsung monitor which is very nice. Some parts had to drop down mostly hard drive space but overall still maintains all the goodness of the PC.

Spec 1 - No montior, £1455
Spec 2 - 24" monitor, £1492

Ignoring the fact that the Ultima 8800 GTX comes with an overclock, both machines are generally better.

 

[MarkPW]

Thanks for the specs flibby. I was about to go for the pre-built, but for some reason OC won't change the case and I initially thought I'd be able to turn the LED's, but I'm told they don't turn off so I'm completely stuck. Do you think it would be feasible to purchase the pre-built, order the P182 case and transfer the components across, or would this cause problems with the overclock (temperatures etc)?

Would there be a great deal of difference between the overclock and no/some overclock (building it myself)? Also, even though ocUK do the overclock on the pre-built, is it as stable as the stock settings? I'm wanting the PC to last at least 2 or 3 years and since I virtually run my business on it, I'll be using it everyday for the duration.

Thanks