PCGH asks Nvidia on Gameworks

Stanners · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:03

TheRealDeal said:
There is no smile at the end on my screen. It's there now lol but it's still daft tbh.

It always been there, maybe a driver glitch with your card

(Just incase it's not there again there is a wink on the end)

GoogalyMoogaly · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:03

tommybhoy said:
No offence taken this time, can you explain how I know nothing about driver failings and another vendor in absolute control of certain code in a game that runs on competitors hardware that the developer is paid to use and cannot comment on implementation?

Sounds a lot like Mantle, if Nvidia did adopt it.

TheRealDeal · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:08

Stanners said:
It always been there, maybe a driver glitch with your card

(Just incase it's not there again there is a wink on the end)

Lol it's there and that was much better than the original. Going to put the missing smiley down to switching over to Chrome as it's not as good as some say it is. Maybe head back to Mozilla. This old AMD card is about to try out Dark Soul's 2 so i am sure i will be reporting back about my horrible experience.

Gerard · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:23

MjFrosty said:
I've actually gone to some might say the horses mouth about this and I've had nothing in the way of a reply yet.

What's Camilla got to do with this?

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:29

You better do some reading up frosty, it's all in various articles although I can understand it's confusing for some when Nvidia are at odds with themselves whether they restrict access or not.

I didn't say complete control over a developer, just certain code-which by the complete lack of feedback(after being directly asked) about Amd's access to game code from ubi is greeted with a simply massive wall of silence considering they have been forthcoming about other aspects of performance issues raised.

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Sounds a lot like Mantle, if Nvidia did adopt it.

At least there's complete clarity and honesty there.

Silent_Scone · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:40

I think you need to stop reading rather than me do any lol.

And you said absolute control over code in a game. More blanket statements.

Anyway, I'm off. Let me know if there are any facts surfacing

Stanners · 29 Jun 2014 at 18:41

TheRealDeal said:
Lol it's there and that was much better than the original. Going to put the missing smiley down to switching over to Chrome as it's not as good as some say it is. Maybe head back to Mozilla. This old AMD card is about to try out Dark Soul's 2 so i am sure i will be reporting back about my horrible experience.

Yeah I had a few issues with chrome. Ended back on Mozilla now and all good!

GoogalyMoogaly · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:05

tommybhoy said:
You better do some reading up frosty, it's all in various articles although I can understand it's confusing for some when Nvidia are at odds with themselves whether they restrict access or not.

I didn't say complete control over a developer, just certain code-which by the complete lack of feedback(after being directly asked) about Amd's access to game code from ubi is greeted with a simply massive wall of silence considering they have been forthcoming about other aspects of performance issues raised.

At least there's complete clarity and honesty there.

?
I don't think there's any confusion over the fact that Nvidia have control of GameWorks?
Which bit is more clear and honest with Mantle?

Rroff · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:10

The attention on nVidia have control over the code in GameWorks I think is focusing away from the stuff that really needs scrutiny, the fact that it does have potential to impact on a rival GPU vendor does have relevance but in itself isn't unusual - your average game has a half dozen or more 3rd party libraries as part of the engine that they often have no access to or control over the source of.

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:10

MjFrosty said:
I think you need to stop reading rather than me do any lol.

And you said absolute control over code in a game. More blanket statements.

Anyway, I'm off. Let me know if there are any facts surfacing

It's quite clear what i wrote-nothing you conjoured up.

GoogalyMoogaly · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:14

Rroff said:
The attention on nVidia have control over the code in GameWorks I think is focusing away from the stuff that really needs scrutiny, the fact that it does have potential to impact on a rival GPU vendor does have relevance but in itself isn't unusual - your average game has a half dozen or more 3rd party libraries as part of the engine that they often have no access to or control over the source of.

+1

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:18

GoogalyMoogaly said:
?
I don't think there's any confusion over the fact that Nvidia have control of GameWorks?
Which bit is more clear and honest with Mantle?

It's a bit confusing to some that Nvidia code is running on AMD hardware and they absolutely wouldn't purposefully harm performance, where as no one has stated AMD wouldn't harm Nvidia hardware with closed source code.

The only way it 'wouldn't' harm Nvidia performance is if Nvidia had full control over the source code-able to adapt it to their hardware, I'm not that naive.

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:20

Rroff said:
your average game has a half dozen or more 3rd party libraries as part of the engine that they often have no access to or control over the source of.

That isn't the issue though, they aren't direct competitors with the hardware used to render the engine.

GoogalyMoogaly · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:24

tommybhoy said:
It's a bit confusing to some that Nvidia code is running on AMD hardware and they absolutely wouldn't purposefully harm performance, where as no one has stated AMD wouldn't harm Nvidia hardware with closed source code.

The only way it 'wouldn't' harm Nvidia performance is if Nvidia had full control over the source code-able to adapt it to their hardware, I'm not that naive.

So the complaint is that you think Nvidia may be doing something you're sure AMD would do?

andybird123 · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:27

tommybhoy said:
It's a bit confusing to some that Nvidia code is running on AMD hardware and they absolutely wouldn't purposefully harm performance, where as no one has stated AMD wouldn't harm Nvidia hardware with closed source code.

The only way it 'wouldn't' harm Nvidia performance is if Nvidia had full control over the source code-able to adapt it to their hardware, I'm not that naive.

that isn't really the issue though, most of the not-anti-nvidia line are just saying that game skew is par for the course, where as the anti-nvidia posters seem to be white knighting for AMD and saying that AMD wouldn't do the same thing in the same situation

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:29

Nice one googaly, I'm not sure of anything that hasn't happened yet in regards to Mantle, if it's fishy, I won't hide my head under a rock demanding unequivocal proof that's for sure.

Silent_Scone · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:29

andybird123 said:
that isn't really the issue though, most of the not-anti-nvidia line are just saying that game skew is par for the course, where as the anti-nvidia posters seem to be white knighting for AMD and saying that AMD wouldn't do the same thing in the same situation

Which they've yet to be in as they're not half the size lol.

The tallest trees always take the most wind. I have a lot of respect for AMD, I just don't have any for those who feel the need to gather pitch forks in their name

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:44

andybird123 said:
that isn't really the issue though, most of the not-anti-nvidia line are just saying that game skew is par for the course, where as the anti-nvidia posters seem to be white knighting for AMD and saying that AMD wouldn't do the same thing in the same situation

I don't speak for others, I clearly implied AMD would be under scrutiny if they do the same with Mantle running on Nvidia.

While I'm under the impression you yourself have been a preponent of Nvidia not skewing AMD performance via GW's/other means, if I'm mistaken with wrongly thinking that's your opinion also, then I shall offer my hand in a gentlemanly fashion.

bru · 29 Jun 2014 at 19:56

tommybhoy said:
I don't speak for others, I clearly implied AMD would be under scrutiny if they do the same with Mantle running on Nvidia.

Er that is exactly what is happening isn't it.

Mantle doesn't run on Nvidia hardware so a game has to run it on the default DirectX path which is a lot slower.

Gameworks doesn't run on non CUDA hardware so it has to run it on the default CPU path which is a lot slower.

tommybhoy · 29 Jun 2014 at 20:27

It couldn't be further from 'exactly' the same thing'.

Nvidia is in full control of their code running on AMD with DX is fundamentaly different.

It's argued that Mantle is no faster than what Nvidia can achieve through DX, it doesn't matter when the finished output is of way, way superior quality.

Everyone who can't run Mantle TWIMTBP will find out when DX 12 touches down.