PCGH asks Nvidia on Gameworks

[PhysicsMan94]

I don't think it's childish when billions of dollah are at stake. Anytime Nvidia do something scuzzy we're told "it's a bizniz, u dont understaaaaand", this whole PR war is a result of AMD getting serious again about taking on NV. First we saw Gaming Evolved, then Never Settle, then the big hot Hawaii (playing NV's game), Mantle/TrueAudio etc, an answer to ShadowPlay and now AMD are attacking NV's perception advantage in the public's collective mind. Arguably the biggest advantage!

So, this is AMD coming at the Green Goblin in a very calculated way, they have almost nothing to lose in the public perception stakes - they're already seen as the cheapo brand. NV however, lose either way in the contract show n tell. Either AMD will nitpick it and make hay with it or they'll be assumed guilty if they shy away.

I don't think Nvidia are worried and they don't need to be either, they are still worth around 3x as much as AMD (market capitalisation) and they don't seem to be in any financial danger at all. So, with that in mind, Nvidia can respond to the continuous (and continuously fabricated as it turns out) allegations from AMDs PR in any manner that they want to, within reason of course.

If I was representing Nvidia (which I'm not), then I'd probably just ignore these silly unsubstantiated accusations from AMD and certain tech 'journalists' altogether; they shouldn't pander to the whims of these children. And given the latest news on this which we have seen over the past couple of days, I think it best for AMD to stay quiet about this whole matter and hope that people just forget about it all.

 

[LtMatt]

I don't think it's childish when billions of dollah are at stake. Anytime Nvidia do something scuzzy we're told "it's a bizniz, u dont understaaaaand", this whole PR war is a result of AMD getting serious again about taking on NV. First we saw Gaming Evolved, then Never Settle, then the big hot Hawaii (playing NV's game), Mantle/TrueAudio etc, an answer to ShadowPlay and now AMD are attacking NV's perception advantage in the public's collective mind. Arguably the biggest advantage!

So, this is AMD coming at the Green Goblin in a very calculated way, they have almost nothing to lose in the public perception stakes - they're already seen as the cheapo brand. NV however, lose either way in the contract show n tell. Either AMD will nitpick it and make hay with it or they'll be assumed guilty if they shy away.

I think you're right Orangey in what you say there. Another interview here.

We at AMD are the authors of Mantle. It doesn't belong to anyone else. There isn't anybody else's IP involved though we will make it an open standard. And yet we have 47 registered developers, seven of whom are public and 40 are through a private, email beta. Forty-seven is a very big number in the PC market place.

We couldn't get 47 people to sign-up for it if it wasn't a solution to a problem that they care about. We could maybe pay 5-10 people to join in, but that's a very different kind of situation than the one we've got.
And then there's a really surprising number; with DX 11, from it's arrival which I think was in October or November 2009, if you take it to its first birthday, there were nine games which used DX 11 in that year, and that includes folks who patched their previous games and so on. They get nine titles in that year. We've already got nine declared titles that will come in 2014 and I suspect that it will be more like 12.
I think it's inherently surprising that AMD can put together a collection of developers that's actually as big, or in this case marginally bigger than what Microsoft achieved in their first year. I think it's a testament to the fact that we really are solving a problem that games developers want.

I don't know if you've had the exciting thrill of watching my video with PC Perspective in the last couple of days. I've been flattered by the amount of attention that it's received because we've gone out there and we've talked very deliberately, very openly about the things that we want and the things that we like and why we're trying to go in particular directions and what we think is wrong with some of the things in the industry.
The stuff we talk about with open standards, it's always gentle and friendly and touchy feely kind of stuff. It's, you know, pushing things in a healthy ecosystem kind of way, but we are absolutely willing to defend ourselves and our principles so we are being pretty bullish about the attack that we're making on GameWorks at the moment as being a closed, propriety way of near as damn as cheating at benchmarks.
It's an artificial way of creating benchmarks which harm AMD, and that's bad for AMD, obviously, but it actually is bad for games players even when they are using Nvidia hardware. It's as bad as that. That's a remarkable state of affairs. So you will see a change from AMD in that we're taking that slightly more bullish attitude and we're going out there and shouting at it and being proud of the things that we do well.

Full Interview
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...s-amd-s-new-attitude-1255538?src=rss&attr=all

 

[Rusty0611]

The less intelligent folk lol. Somebody needs to get off there high horse.

Their*

 

[pgi947]

Tbh this guy needs to be careful or amd need to reign him in a bit, again he's shouting from the rooftops with accusation's that have no substance, huddy/amd could find them selves on the wrong side of a law suit unless they provide a bit more info then finger pointing.

The saying that comes to mind with this whole situation is 'the bigger man walks away' which seems to be the option nvidia are taking, brushing it off with little fuss while huddy is stamping his feet like a 5 year old, making amd look foolish in the process.

If you're going to war, remember to take ammo with you....and in huddys case some strepsils or something.

Either way I genuinely don't care about this whole game works thing, disable the features if you need to and move on, enjoy the game. Do nvidia users have a great gaming experience? Yep. Do amd users have a great gaming experience? Yep. So who ******* cares???? Oh wait like 5 people do

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

People are forgetting a number of important people at AMD have worked at Nvidia before. Roy Taylor for example was with Nvidia for over a decade and was supposedly the driving force behind TWIMTBP. Even,though people like him are still probably bound by NDAs,it does make me wonder at times,whether they know things we don't know,since this much more aggressive PR stance coincided with the new people like him being hired.



Edit!!

Wow,he as really high up! Over a decade or so he was:

Vice President of EMEA
Vice President GPU Sales
Vice President Content Relations. CTO for the PCGA (PC Gaming Alliance)
Vice President of Telco Relations

"Regional role. NVIDIA’s first employee in Europe."

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Tbh this guy needs to be careful or amd need to reign him in a bit, again he's shouting from the rooftops with accusation's that have no substance, huddy/amd could find them selves on the wrong side of a law suit unless they provide a bit more info then finger pointing.

The saying that comes to mind with this whole situation is 'the bigger man walks away' which seems to be the option nvidia are taking, brushing it off with little fuss while huddy is stamping his feet like a 5 year old, making amd look foolish in the process.

If you're going to war, remember to take ammo with you....and in huddys case some strepsils or something.

Either way I genuinely don't care about this whole game works thing, disable the features if you need to and move on, enjoy the game. Do nvidia users have a great gaming experience? Yep. Do amd users have a great gaming experience? Yep. So who ******* cares???? Oh wait like 5 people do

Actually Nvidia PR is known for being quite aggressive in its own right.

An example goes back to this,when they had their spat with Intel:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-intel-ftc-intelsinsides-cartoon,9295.html

They basically made cartoons mocking Intel.

They mocked AMD over the console wins,etc. Its not only AMD who do it. Intel have done it to AMD,AMD to Intel.

It could be with he new hires of people who have worked at Nvidia,they are just ramping it up now. Could be a cultural thing as the PR parts of the company have had a massive shake up since the new CEO and CTO(ex-Lenovo and ex-Apple guys) joined.

 

[Silent_Scone]

That was a different NV, most of the people that were responsible for the funnies now work else where

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That was a different NV, most of the people that were responsible for the funnies now work else where

It won't be that different IMHO,since JHH is still head honcho,and does not seem the kind of hands-off type. I consider him a bit like Steve Jobs and his tenures at Apple.

It does make Nvidia an oddity for a tech company as the founder is still heading the company,21 years after he helped found it.

 

[Silent_Scone]

I was speaking with a certain someone last week and apparently it has changed an awful lot. Not the same company it used to be to work for.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I was speaking with a certain someone last week and apparently it has changed an awful lot. Not the same company it used to be to work for.

Well they are focusing more on mobile and moving into markets which don't require large massive GPUs,so thee are probably some large internal changes I suspect.

However,Nvidia is still very much a company driven by JHH,like Apple(when it succeeded) was by Steve Jobs. The aggressive Nvidia PR is still there - they mocked AMD openly about their console wins,the HD7970 and their drivers and that was in the last three years. Its why they do well,and I really doubt that NV PR is all of sudden going to be tame,and not do anything anymore.

Apple might have changed in many ways under Steve Jobs in his two stretches,but some things never really changed. Even their aggressive use of the patents system oddities against Google/Android licensees,was pretty much a similar technique they used in the 1980s during the desktop OS wars. Their use of good advertising and hype,was pretty the same too.

 

[LambChop]

I don't think it's childish when billions of dollah are at stake. Anytime Nvidia do something scuzzy we're told "it's a bizniz, u dont understaaaaand", this whole PR war is a result of AMD getting serious again about taking on NV. First we saw Gaming Evolved, then Never Settle, then the big hot Hawaii (playing NV's game), Mantle/TrueAudio etc, an answer to ShadowPlay and now AMD are attacking NV's perception advantage in the public's collective mind. Arguably the biggest advantage!

So, this is AMD coming at the Green Goblin in a very calculated way, they have almost nothing to lose in the public perception stakes - they're already seen as the cheapo brand. NV however, lose either way in the contract show n tell. Either AMD will nitpick it and make hay with it or they'll be assumed guilty if they shy away.

You think it's just perception ? lol

 

[humbug]

People are forgetting a number of important people at AMD have worked at Nvidia before. Roy Taylor for example was with Nvidia for over a decade and was supposedly the driving force behind TWIMTBP. Even,though people like him are still probably bound by NDAs,it does make me wonder at times,whether they know things we don't know,since this much more aggressive PR stance coincided with the new people like him being hired.



Edit!!

Wow,he as really high up! Over a decade or so he was:

Vice President of EMEA
Vice President GPU Sales
Vice President Content Relations. CTO for the PCGA (PC Gaming Alliance)
Vice President of Telco Relations

"Regional role. NVIDIA’s first employee in Europe."

They still have friends at Nvidia, Roy actually gets quite defensive over Nvidia, or their staff at least... when you talk to him privately about all this.

They know whats going on inside Nvidia.

 

[Deceptor]

They still have friends at Nvidia, Roy actually gets quite defensive over Nvidia, or their staff at least... when you talk to him privately about all this.

They know whats going on inside Nvidia.

Well I seriously doubt AMD hate Nvidia and vice versa, if you got an honest answer out of them you'd probably hear them say they respect each other or something along those lines.

Of course they won't come out and say this as their interests are at heart, which is completely fine

 

[James J]

They still have friends at Nvidia, Roy actually gets quite defensive over Nvidia, or their staff at least... when you talk to him privately about all this.

They know whats going on inside Nvidia.

Of course he'll defend the staff as its not them he'll have an issue with as an AMD worker anyway, its the company they work for. This is absolutely normal in business!

 

[humbug]

Well I seriously doubt AMD hate Nvidia and vice versa, if you got an honest answer out of them you'd probably hear them say they respect each other or something along those lines.

Of course they won't come out and say this as their interests are at heart, which is completely fine

Yeah, and i don't think Nvidia or anyone at Nvidia are inherently evil but like most large companies they have investors who expect to be paid more and more dividend, the only way you can feed them is by making higher and higher profits.

That means cutting costs, jacking prices up and getting inventive with your marketing.

 

[mmj_uk]

Yeah, and i don't think Nvidia or anyone at Nvidia are inherently evil but like most large companies they have investors who expect to be paid more and more dividend, the only way you can feed them is by making higher and higher profits.

That means cutting costs, jacking prices up and getting inventive with your marketing.

What about providing a better service to your customers than your closest rival? it's the key reason why NVidia are so popular among PC gamers despite their higher prices. The hardware itself is only half of the package.

The only people who think NVidia are evil at all is those who get a substandard gaming experience from AMD and have swallowed all of the BS AMD peddle about every negative aspect of their GPU's being NVidia's fault.

As a PC gamer and not having any personal feeling towards NVidia (the company) their profits are irrelevant to me, they can make as much as they want as long as they continue to support my gaming experience the way they do. Until AMD stop making excuses and match that after-sales support I'd rather pay the extra and spend less time suffering avoidable issues.

 

[humbug]

What about providing a better service to your customers than your closest rival? it's the key reason why NVidia are so popular among PC gamers despite their higher prices. The hardware itself is only half of the package.

The only people who think NVidia are evil at all is those who get a substandard gaming experience from AMD and have swallowed all of the BS AMD peddle about every negative aspect of their GPU's being NVidia's fault.

As a PC gamer and not having any personal feeling towards NVidia (the company) their profits are irrelevant to me, they can make as much as they want as long as they continue to support my gaming experience the way they do. Until AMD stop making excuses and match that after-sales support I'd rather pay the extra and spend less time suffering avoidable issues.

AMD are actually very good these days, not perfect, there are glitches, but no more than Nvidia.

AMD are also getting to a point where they are providing all the features Nvidia do, and more, Other than PhysX, which i think makes games look like something from the 1990's.

One of those things, Mantle, is far more significant that anything Nvidia have, at the end of the day cartoon rubble falling out of the wall is one thing, having excellent performance consistently with unrivalled smoothness is quite another.

People just don't know it yet.

 

[layte]

They still have friends at Nvidia, Roy actually gets quite defensive over Nvidia, or their staff at least... when you talk to him privately about all this.

They know whats going on inside Nvidia.

Given he changes jobs like we change outfits he probably doesn't want to burn too many bridges.

 

[humbug]

Given he changes jobs like we change outfits he probably doesn't want to burn too many bridges.

I think Huddy nuked his bridges.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

I guess from all this nonsense we did learn one thing:

That in corporate buzzword terms, "gaming scientist" apparently actually means "PR guy".