Pharmaceutical Companies

areksnumbr1sxylady · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:32

Some time ago I had come across thread by Groen :rolleyes:

about vaccinations and corruption/conspiracy theories by pharmaceutical companies into forcing us to buy things... Since OP was Groen I didnt even bother reading since he is a bit of you know.....

But had a look at BBC Panorama recently and they found serious proof that companies such as GSK have been bribing (sort-of) doctors into prescribing medications to patients.

I mean if what this episode of Panarama says is true, then the idea that Pharmaceuticals are selling us duff Vaccinations which are near to useless doesn't seem impossible and laughable. Like mentioned in the episode the policy of GSK is to sell as much as possible, regardless if the actions fall in the shady area.

Link to iplayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b041drpn/Panorama_Whos_Paying_Your_Doctor/

oli collett · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:33

If you think it's bad here, you should see what it's like in the US

And yeah, big pharma is bad. All trials will make a big difference to many of the problems with dodgy trial data (see recent tamiflu case). But it's worth remembering that modern evidence based medicine has done some incredible things

[FnG]magnolia · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:33

You forget to use the phrase BIG PHARMA

areksnumbr1sxylady · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:34

oli collett said:
If you think it's bad here, you should see what it's like in the US

I live in US

there is open data-base which allows you to search ANY doctors name and see if he is sponsored by drug companies....

The reason I linked Vaccinations to this subject is because they are literally mental here with the FLU shots, they are everywhere.... So many adverts and horror stories.

Whilst I support general vaccination, something like Flu shots just scream that they are just dud to make money.

StriderX · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:34

[FnG]magnolia;26165936 said:
You forget to use the phrase BIG PHARMA

Much better

Mr Badger · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:34

Will no one think of the ~~shareholders~~ children?

oli collett · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:36

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
I live in US there is open data-base which allows you to search ANY doctors name and see if he is sponsored by drug companies....

The reason I linked Vaccinations to this subject is because they are literally mental here with the FLU shots, they are everywhere.... So many adverts and horror stories.

Ah so you do!

One good thing we have here is that you can't advertise drugs like you can in the US. The lack of regulations there is ridiculous.

areksnumbr1sxylady · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:39

oli collett said:
Ah so you do!

One good thing we have here is that you can't advertise drugs like you can in the US. The lack of regulations there is ridiculous.

It is not that bad, but it is strange to see adverts about serious drugs on TV.... However, they are FORCED to list all side effects within the advert at a normal speed and not in small text....

So after you hear how awesome product is in first part, 2nd part is dedicated to saying how it will make you blind cause seizures and death.

WillyNelson · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:44

I used to work for GSK. In many ways I wouldn't trust them an inch. Very tight margins these days and no magic bullets, a narrow pipeline and pressure from generics and patent expired products. They need to do everything they can get away with to get an edge.

checjb · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:49

I work for GSK. It's worth remembering that the corruption you here about is usually due to semi-senior (read: totally selfish) leaders or the sales force. As a direct result of the wonderful example that those two groups of individuals have displayed, the rest of the staff have had to undergo some wonderful Anti Bribery and Corruption training. Grrrrrr! It all totally undermines to good work that real scientists are trying to do to actually help people.

randomshenans · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:54

areksnumbr1sxylady said:
It is not that bad, but it is strange to see adverts about serious drugs on TV.... However, they are FORCED to list all side effects within the advert at a normal speed and not in small text....

So after you hear how awesome product is in first part, 2nd part is dedicated to saying how it will make you blind cause seizures and death.

I saw one recently over there that mentioned internal bleeding as a possible side effect! Was probably only for some viagra or something!

areksnumbr1sxylady · 15 Apr 2014 at 21:59

randomshenans said:
I saw one recently over there that mentioned internal bleeding as a possible side effect! Was probably only for some viagra or something!

American adverts never dissapoint.

Energize · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:08

The problem is more the doctors than the pharmaceutical companies, they are the ones that are supposed to be prescribing people appropriate medications and are not doing so.

Nowadays medical trial data on new drugs is much clearer because it all must be submitted to a central database, which prevents the problems of publication bias.

randomshenans said:
I saw one recently over there that mentioned internal bleeding as a possible side effect! Was probably only for some viagra or something!

It's a common side effect of painkillers like ibuprofen.

One More Solo · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:15

Energize said:
The problem is more the doctors than the pharmaceutical companies, they are the ones that are supposed to be prescribing people appropriate medications and are not doing so.

Nowadays medical trial data on new drugs is much clearer because it all must be submitted to a central database, which prevents the problems of unpublished data.

There are still issues with unpublished data though, something like a third of trials are still unpublished five years after completion off the top of my head.

Xordium · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:19

Energize said:
The problem is more the doctors than the pharmaceutical companies, they are the ones that are supposed to be prescribing people appropriate medications and are not doing so.

Nowadays medical trial data on new drugs is much clearer because it all must be submitted to a central database, which prevents the problems of unpublished data.

Doctors can only work on the best evidence that is given to them and also their hands are often tied by NICE and local stipulations.

Medical trial data is less clear now than it has been for some time. Large amounts of new drugs are tested on groups and sanctioned on datasets that the drug companies will not release for impartial peer assessment.

They are no angels. They are in it for profit. When the swineflu vaccine was being lauded a few years back one of my old juniors was still testing the effects for both efficacy and problems. A quick chat with her was enough to convince me that that particular vaccine should not have been pushed forward how it was.

Now part of that is down to pressure on drug companies to give something and anything because the government get themselves in a tizzy trying to appear that they are in control. That happens because they media get the public in a panic about it all. So we are all a bit culpable in this regard.

Energize said:
It's a common side effect of painkillers like ibuprofen.

It's hardly a common side effect. It is known but there is a big difference between GI bleeds caused by inadequate control of stomach acidity and internal bleeding as most people would term it. That is sensationalistic. Yes you may have problems for people who take warfarin but that also is hardly common.

Westyfield2 · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:23

checjb said:
I work for GSK. It's worth remembering that the corruption you here about is usually due to semi-senior (read: totally selfish) leaders or the sales force. As a direct result of the wonderful example that those two groups of individuals have displayed, the rest of the staff have had to undergo some wonderful Anti Bribery and Corruption training. Grrrrrr! It all totally undermines to good work that real scientists are trying to do to actually help people.

What he said.

Don't get me wrong, it's not good and all that… but it's just a couple of rogue sales men being bad with their detailing. It's not the norm.

Energize · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:26

Xordium said:
Doctors can only work on the best evidence that is given to them and also their hands are often tied by NICE and local stipulations.

I am referring to the issue of bribery.

It's hardly a common side effect. It is known but there is a big difference between GI bleeds caused by inadequate control of stomach acidity and internal bleeding as most people would term it. That is sensationalistic. Yes you may have problems for people who take warfarin but that also is hardly common.

The term "internal bleeding" used by a layperson could mean anything. I never compared UGIB to internal bleeding caused by anticoagulants.

Orionaut · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:36

Slight asside.

The NHS Drug budget (Let alone its general overall budget) is probably comparable to (And likely even exceeds) that of any individual "Big Pharma" company.

Why does not the NHS simply operate its own "Pharma" operation??

Energize · 15 Apr 2014 at 22:38

Orionaut said:
Why does not the NHS simply operate its own "Pharma" operation??

Patents. You can't violate international copyright.

Burnsy2023 · 16 Apr 2014 at 00:04

Read abook called Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre. It gives a good explanation of what the issues with the industry are.