Photography for CD/vinyl artwork - Water/Coast based

bloodiedathame said:
Do photographers have a hard time finding work?
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You opened a bit of a can of worms tbh. I'd say a good percentage of the very active posters in this forum are professionals and as such it's their living.

As noted above by someone, the band will generally have to pay for everything else be it CD production, materials, equipment costs etc. And equally i'm sure if they secure a gig they won't be doing that for free even if it's not their primary source of income. So everyone more or less in the chain is getting paid apart from the photographer who's offered a credit. That's the bit that will grate a little as the band and photographer are in the creative industry so struggle a little with people wanting things for nothing by default.

I think if you'd opened with "Any budding hobbyists can you..." you'd of got a better response.
 
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I don't know the ins and outs of what they'd be paid for a gig. I doubt it's much, niche market. A busy night in London might be playing to 100 people. They'd see little of the entry fee, maybe £20 between them.

Technically it wasn't nothing (free copy), but yeah, admittedly, it's not a lot.

Wording has never been a strong point of mine, and this isn't an area of the forum I visit often so didn't realise how many people it would irk. I didn't mean to enrage the pros with my wording, I'd never expect anyone who expects to be paid corporate day rates to go miles out of their way to do anything for so little.
 
bloodiedathame said:
You use your kit I would assume, for business.

The band is not a business, it is not the members primary source of income and likely never will be. It is an artistic venture not a monetary one.

I was asking for a generous artistic contribution if anyone felt inclined.
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So is most people's photography!
 
bloodiedathame said:
I don't know the ins and outs of what they'd be paid for a gig. I doubt it's much, niche market. A busy night in London might be playing to 100 people. They'd see little of the entry fee, maybe £20 between them.

Technically it wasn't nothing (free copy), but yeah, admittedly, it's not a lot.

Wording has never been a strong point of mine, and this isn't an area of the forum I visit often so didn't realise how many people it would irk. I didn't mean to enrage the pros with my wording, I'd never expect anyone who expects to be paid corporate day rates to go miles out of their way to do anything for so little.
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Sounds like a pretty bad band if they can't get decent money from playing in bars. As I said, i've known several bands over the years and they would all maker a few hundred on typical evening and have a lot of fun in doing so. Do a couple of gigs and then pay for a photographer.


Do you go in to Tescos and demand to get food for free, or in to a bar and get free beer? So why do you expect a photographer to do something for free? A credit is legal requirement so you are offering diddly squat.
 
I don't think he's 'expecting' anything for free... He's just asking and we all know that if you don't ask, you don't get ;)
 
Wow, This forum is great :rolleyes:

I bet you are so glad you asked eh bloodiedathame? :(

The usual ('pro' cough-cough) suspects crawling out of their slimy holes :mad:
 
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The pros are entitled to their opinions, and I definitely don't blame them for standing up for their profession. I don't take their criticism personally. As someone said, if you don't ask you don't get.
 
There's a lot of bitter people here. If someone wanted to do this for nothing then that's up to them. Raymond noted that a credit is a requirement of the law for copyright. It's not - an acknowledgement for the pic is required, but a personal message/recognition to the photographer for their efforts might be of more value than a simple name recognition. Also - in the creative world there are plenty of people who collborate to create interesting things. Simply asking if someone wants to help out is hardly woprthy of the derision it's been given in this thread.

Sad that people should be so quick to atack the notion of asking for a favour.
 
I've worked with over 200 models since I started Photography 5 years ago and only 1 of them have been a paid shoot, the rest have a been collaborations because some people just love to create images. I shoot for the love of it :)
 
bloodiedathame said:
The pros are entitled to their opinions, and I definitely don't blame them for standing up for their profession. I don't take their criticism personally. As someone said, if you don't ask you don't get.
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In my experience real 'pros' don't act this way, and find a lot of the remarks here unnecessary... I'm glad your not offended; I would be.

I'm not a pro photographer, but I am a professional artist, and earn my living 100% from what I do, yet I still give stuff away to those who want to use the work, but have little means to fund their project... sometimes great things come from it, and there is reward on both sides.

Some here need to get over themselves.. perhaps get off the forum and do some work :o
 
I think the issue is that it's assumed that the band are going to make enough money off the back of record sales so they they should be able to pay a photographer. I don't know the ins and outs of this but I know that they won't be making much (if any) profit, they play because they enjoy it, it's not their career choice.
 
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Collaboration is generally where two (or more) groups get something out of it. The OPs post was essentially asking for something for free so his friends could make money (in part) from it. It's why I then suggested a profit share would be more pertinent.

I'm the same as both of the above. I'm willing (and have) let people/organisations/websites use photos but draw the line at profit making entities using them.

If on the other hand someone had approached me in person and asked to do a shoot then I would consider it depending on circumstances. Some random off the net asking for photos to use for a bands album cover for "credit" is not the same, nor is it collaboration. Sorry.
 
Amp34 - My point was more fundamental - collaboration can be rewarding just from one creative poerson working with another group - there could be simply interest in braching out into another genre/format through the album art, a general enjoyment for music and/or the chance to meet new people/make new contacts. Whilst I have no problem with people not wanting to offer their skills for free, I just thought it was unfair to attack the concept. If I had the time, I'd gladly contribute. I've shot stuff for album art before (in the course of which I've met friends for life and have shares in a small production company).

That company has come together simply as the result of interested creatives working together to provide something useful for other creatives. Sometimes the art of the piece or the inovelement in something bigger which might only financially benefit another is reward enough.

I derive enjoyment from seeing other succeed, and whilst I wouldn't sacrifice my own earnings to achieve that goal, helping others along the way can bring all sorts of inderect rewards.
 
I'd be more inclined to work with the band and do a album cover shot with the band in the photo, in doing so I learn something (which is the reward), as opposed to just hand over a photo in return for a credit inside the booklet in font 9.
 
If the band was giving away the album for free then I wouldn't have an issue. Ive iven plenty of photos to charities and causes, but I refuse to do it for someone else's commercial gain.

Collaboration is not the same as getting something for free. In a collaboration all parties get some kind of award and benefit, even if it is not financial. Giving work away for free doesn't gain the photographer anything in this scenario. As Raymond said, working with the band to get some cover shots and gig photos as experience might be a benefit to the photographer if they want that experience.

If is ask some random on the internet for £200 so I can buy a camera lens and I give them credit with photos used with that lens but no other return then is that a collaboration? That is precisely what the OP is asking for, just to hand out money without any significant return.


As for full time pros togs, they can do whatever they like to maximize their profits. Hobbiests don't generate significant income from their photography work so what limited income is available is rightly protected to a higher degree. Telcos can afford to give stuff away for free as BOGOFs, someone who makes bespoke jewelry in their spare time cannot afford to do the same.
 
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