Piers Morgan vs Alex Jones: Guns

I think Piers Morgan is a despicable toad, however it could be a smart move if the extremeness of his position rallys the people who are offended by it even among gun supporters

The danger is that he could also by giving that nutjob airtime actually bring out people supporting the nutjob
 
PMKeates said:
These figures offer no information about the number of American who own guns. This is like saying that because 20 tons (40mn good lines) of cocaine were imported in to the UK during 2012, 40mn people snorted coke.
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There is no information about that. Guns aren't registered and I guarantee hardly any owners will volunteer that info to anyone. You should at least double anything that a poll says. I mean I know plenty of people who refuse to even join the NRA because they are paranoid of being "tracked".

The only thing you can somewhat accurately track are background checks and concealed carry permit applications and both and expanding hugely. Florida just went over the 1 million concealed permit mark.
 
kwerk said:
There is no information about that. Guns aren't registered and I guarantee hardly any owners will volunteer that info to anyone. You should at least double anything that a poll says. I mean I know plenty of people who refuse to even join the NRA because they are paranoid of being "tracked".

The only thing you can somewhat accurately track are background checks and concealed carry permit applications and both and expanding hugely. Florida just went over the 1 million concealed permit mark.
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As I said, tracking background checks tells you very little about the number of Americans who have a gun, and this is the point of my original comment around 'most Americans do not have a gun'. I stand by this based on all evidence and polls and information that is out there, and my own personal experiences that differ from yours.
 
That was awesome, but Alex isn't the most articulate man.. but he has a passion for the constitution. Unlike that sniveling little rat Piers who will suck up to anyone in authority.

Piers makes the UK look like paradise, we have so much state involvement here good luck getting out of the lower classes. Council tax, vat on fuel, road tax, income tax, state subsidised corporations producing low quality food but still keep prices high, wars, bailing out of the same banks screwing us over in the first place and a USSR-style government based in Brussels with unelected politicians who make our decisions for us.

Then there's the shambles of the NHS creating so much debt, GPs now only get 10 minutes with a patient on average and ANYONE can use it, just walk into the UK and hey free liver transplant courtesy of the middle class and everyone else subject to taxation. I think these liberals have had their fun, they've created a huge bureaucratic monster, centralized industry even further protecting monopolies while screwing over small business, hard. Enough is enough.

 
PMKeates said:
These figures offer no information about the number of American who own guns. This is like saying that because 20 tons (40mn good lines) of cocaine were imported in to the UK during 2012, 40mn people snorted coke.
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Coke is a consumable good though. Guns are durable, they are more like cars. Yes a few people buy 10 cars but most only have 1 or 2.

BTW about 3% of the population are ineligible to have one from criminal records.
 
Attitudes change. That is the cause of the change in the US. It will evolve and it is a one way street. Incrementally it will move exactly as it has in other countries.
 
Robbo said:
That has less than nothing to do with civilians being armed.
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orly

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Probably all got destroyed by the government before they got in any peasant's hands though I bet.

The point is when the Nazis decided to roll in to France and the like they took great pains to disarm everyone (not that they were well armed to begin with). The Americans had to drop these pistols all over the place so people could assassinate Nazis. If it was me I'd rather have had my own rifle than a sheet metal pistol!

If the American Nazi Party had come to power in the USA who would have bailed the USA out like Europe was bailed out? Who would have been willing and capable? Nobody, it would have been up to the American citizens themselves.

If European civilians were all armed to begin with would they have needed the Americans to bail them out? If every Jewish house had a mauser would the holocaust have happened?

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He just made himself look totaly stupid and morgan was just watching!

when alex started taking the **** out of our accent, thats when he lost all credit, dang its like name calling ( he must know that he sounds like a red neck no!!
 
kwerk said:
Oh and which country did Hitler never **** with? Switzerland, with it's militia culture of armed citizens.
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Armed civilians is definitely not a put off for an invading force. Far from it. Invading Switzerland would have been a wasted effort and extremely time consuming because of their extremely powerful and capable army on their own ground. All of them are trained for the army, they are effectively not civilians and they serve and train every year to an extremely high standard. They stayed neutral which was perfect for Hitler. Russia was his big mistake. They wiped the floor with him as they are a huge country and outnumbered all forces whilst being somewhat modern in their weapons. They have gun control. The point is an armed civilian population is a false sense of security that it will contribute even slightly to the protection of the country. I think ultimately the US gun setup is a spin off from the UK bill of rights for bearing arms but the US version (which is written the same of course) has the extra aim of overthrowing a government if required. Once a democracy is established this seems somewhat unnecessary as your guns are your votes. This leaves the guns to cause a lot of crime and in particular murdering children as we have seen recently. If there ever was an uprising with guns it wouldn't be simply strolling onto the White House. It would be a huge civil war and the segregation present in the US would create a lot of groups fighting each other, so far from simple and completely ineffective. It would in effect be suicide and likely be a victory for a more powerful group (army), larger group (most likely fighting for their own survival rather than any common purpose) or an external force either taking advantage or more likely asked to help. For what a vote will achieve.
 
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Having watched the interview before, I don't think Alex Jones is just a prime example of why America needs gun control, I think he's a prime example of why they need birth control!
 
As history has taught us. Public attitude is the cause of change /\. There is nothing more needed to be done, it is a one way street the US is already heading down. The laws are evolving and will continue as they have done in other countries.
 
kwerk said:
If the American Nazi Party had come to power in the USA who would have bailed the USA out like Europe was bailed out? Who would have been willing and capable? Nobody, it would have been up to the American citizens themselves.
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Erm, the rest of the world - Europe maybe? The USSR and the British Empire? You have to remember America sat back and watched the European powers decimate themselves shortly after decimation 'round one' in the Great War. The idea that an armed civilian population in the USA is the only thing that would have stopped a hypothetical 'American Nazi Party' taking over the world is so simplistic as to be utterly preposterous.
delta0 said:
All of them are trained for the army, they are effectively not civilians and they serve and train every year to an extremely high standard
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Nonsense. It's absolutely nothing like as you describe! Swiss Militärdienst is an optional service (you can object to it) where people spend a couple of weeks every so often sitting around a barracks.
 
groen said:
Well from my perspective alex made him look like the fool. He knew that piers morgan had some stupid agenda and he went out there and got out as much information as he wanted to and just talked over the host. Piers morgan was calling it a debate, not once did he respond to a thing that alex jones said (in the small opportunities he had to respond) and he had many chances and alex would have shut up if he had spoke. Morgan just wanted him to answer questions to make a specific point and alex refused to play in to it.
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lolgroen.
 
Moses said:
That doesn't back up your assertion she has eighty agents, armed with M4s, with her at all time. The figure of eighty is mentioned, but that could be the total figure, which when broken down doesn't sound as crazy... and I didn't see them all with M4s, either. By that I mean that there could be eighty agents, but in three shifts (so that becomes ~26) on duty at any time. Then out of that 26 there could be a handful who are at the next location, or at the previous location. Etc, etc. But yeah, basically your source didn't back up your claim :).
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The fact is she is entiltled to this under the Former Presidents Act. It states that Bill Clinton under this act is the last president entitled to Lifetime Secret Service protection for himself, spouse and children!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Presidents_Act
 
PMKeates said:
Erm, the rest of the world - Europe maybe? The USSR and the British Empire? You have to remember America sat back and watched the European powers decimate themselves shortly after decimation 'round one' in the Great War. The idea that an armed civilian population in the USA is the only thing that would have stopped a hypothetical 'American Nazi Party' taking over the world is so simplistic as to be utterly preposterous
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Not to mention the Nazi party came into power legitimately and at its height was very popular with the people of Germany. No amount of armed civilians in Germany would have prevented that.
Funnily enough, the blind defence of the 2nd amendment is exactly the sort of thing someone like Hitler would have used to gain that popularity.
 
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