Piracy and Small Game Developers

Soldato
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Saw an interesting article on Kotaku today, linking to a forum post by a THQ head honcho regarding the death of Iron Lore (publisher of Titan Quest).

Kotaku - http://kotaku.com/362516/thq-creative-director-rants-on-piracy-death-of-iron-lore

Original Post - http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663

Even if some of his figures could be debated it's quite depressing to see how difficult it is for smaller developers. From someone who grew up on games during the Speccy and Commodore days when anyone could make a fun and original game, it makes me wonder whether PC gaming has a strong future.

I really enjoyed Titan Quest, it was a Diablo clone yes but it was still a good accomplished game.

I'm sure there are people here who played a pirate version of TQ and if so i hope it gives them the opportunity to 're-evaluate' their perspective, however i doubt it will make a difference.
 
Don't be so quick to jump on the piracy bandwagon , note that THQ took pretty much all of the early profits away from iron lore in publishing fee's. I'll quote a post from rage3d

I remember reading a post on the TQ forums from one of the developers... From what I understand, THQ's contract stipulates that THQ takes 100% of the profit until marketing costs are recouped. After that point, the developers get a cut. That would explain why awesome initial sales don't necessarily translate into developer profit.

I'm going by memory here, so don't take my word for gospel.

In that link had some interesting posts which again i'll quote from the other place as was discussed there too



Michal Fitch and other developer's. You need a ranking system with "a little bit more" that requires a valid serial number. One of the great things about Galactic Civilizations is their Metaverse. I firmly believe this encourages legitimate sales as people want to see their little empire grow and see their name. In addition, Stardock builds "extras" into their budget so those that have legitimate copies know they will be getting something for free down the road. I'm only greatly simplifying what Brad's blogged about - but if you want to be successful in the pc industry nowasays... there's no reason you can't be you just have to plan ahead.
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What Blizzard realized years ago, back in the early days of Battle.net, was that piracy was unstoppable, and providing a server-side, multiplayer experience, from the ground up, was the future of computer gaming. You could stop pirates from playing in multiplayer by making the game essentially a multiplayer game from the ground up and retaining control over the multiplayer servers. Every Blizzard game since Diablo 1 has been at it's heart a multiplayer experience, balanced completely for the multiplayer crowd, and designed to retain control over their product by tying it into their own servers - even if it meant having to pay for some players, and some old game, 10+ years down the road, for free. Success compounds, and look where they are now.
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One thing you could do is provide those which play CoD4 seriously access to a new map(s) ahead of general community, provided they pay a fee. 10 GBP sounds pretty reasonable for one month of early access for a map pack of 1-3 maps to me. Serious players will play it. They may well get an advantage out of it (knowledge is power and not having to play with "skimmer" players) but it's not a game breaking one. "Skimmers" and/or "casual" CoD4 players (those that are playing a bunch of FPS games simultaneously) won't pay the fee, but that's their choice and they'll get it anyway.

The net result will be the game developer will pull in sufficient funds to at least offset the cost of development of the new content, the serious players get "good stuff", and the "skimmer" players get everything eventually (even if a vast majority of them simply won't care.) Not to mention, the anti-piracy advantage this provides...

While subscriptions may well equate MMORPG in some people's mind - it's really a question of providing value on a consistent cadence and giving people the chance to pay for it. If it turns out that they want to pay more & faster - let 'em! That said, online commerce is damn hard, the publishers have a role to play to make this possible, in combination with game developer creativity.
 
Chimera: That was a good find. A very interesting link.

I liked the bit how their several stage anti-piracy system back fired on them. With so many people sounding off that the game was super buggy, it would put others off. How ironic. I also liked the bit about the reviewers being unhelpful or just plain rubbish. But overall the figures are stunning.

"Bioshock was selling 5 to 1 on console vs. PC. And Call of Duty 4 was selling 10 to 1"

I know piracy is being blamed for everything from CD sales figures, to box-office takings etc, but with figures like that, it isn't hard to see why the PC games industry is such a mess. The lesson to be learnt seems to be: Avoid clever cd checks, have at least an online serial number that gives access to extra features and think about putting it on consoles as well.

But I am very glad I don't make games for the PC. I can't think of many harder jobs.
 
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Go the way stardock does i really feel its the way to go , no protection and if you buy the game you get the best support and updated bonus's. Customers get lumped into the same boat as the pirates , there must be away of giving legit customers a good pat on the back !

Think of the stuff customers got in the witcher pack , lovely poster... Little items... Cards e.t.c


Oh and avoid the retail publishers they just rip the developers off taking so much of the profits
 
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I have to say - the marketing backfire of security mechanism was one of the most amazing things I've read in recent months. I remember talking about it with my cousin, who's working in game publishing outfit. He described presentation they had from one of the software developers years ago in which they were shown security software triggers which would leave players stranded or strip good quality textures, tasks and enemies from the game as players progressed through pirated copy. My cousin's first reaction was - "why would you make the game look more buggy? Why don't you just trigger for example an obstacle with >>Your quest ends now, buy your copy to continue<< written across it instead?". Apparently developers thought it would make it too obvious for crackers where the triggers were. I'm literally sitting here LOLing reading that Iron Lore was silly enough to actually go ahead with something similar. Who on earth would make the game crash rather than trigger "this software is unlicensed" message and why would any pirate buy a copy if the "demo" was crashing on them all the time. You don't prevent bank robbery by burning all the money in the safe. Let it be a lesson - stupidity doesn't pay.
 
Companies are shooting them selfs in the foot.

They all want that X-Factor in there game, be it great AI, interface, story or graphics. But the time, effort and money is completely against them.

Why the industry doesnt splinter into sub companies.

Graphic design companies where you buy there graphics engine.

AI/Scripting companies where you buy that and combine it with the graphics.

And so on.

That leaves the company then to focus on developing the story, interface, marketing and so on.
 
I have to admit I'm surprised. PC Games are cheaper than console games. Why would anyone want to want 7 days for a pc game to download (they're huge in size) instead of going out and paying £30 for it?!

1. You know the game will work offline and online
2. You don't have to worry about your ISP slaping you across the face several times with your months bill for going over the bandwidth cap.
3. You're supporting the developers.
 
I have to admit I'm surprised. PC Games are cheaper than console games. Why would anyone want to want 7 days for a pc game to download (they're huge in size) instead of going out and paying £30 for it?!

1. You know the game will work offline and online
2. You don't have to worry about your ISP slaping you across the face several times with your months bill for going over the bandwidth cap.
3. You're supporting the developers.

I have to pick you up on this.

IF i wanted to download crysis for example, its 6gb download, i could have that done over night. So go to sleep, wake up and bingo, new game.

If your ISP is capping you on off peak as well as on peak, you need a new ISP.

And why should we be supporting developers that produce half finished games, sims 2, sims 2.1 sims, 2.2, sims 2.3 and so on till you hit sims 2.99.

We need to support the developers that NEED the money. Valve as an example will always be on my purchase list, I'll never pirate there games. Simply because they make amazing games.
 
Apparently developers thought it would make it too obvious for crackers where the triggers were.

I think you've pretty much answered your own question :)
This isn't strictly a new measure (I seem to remember reading about Red Alert 2 having some kind of weird trigger which caused missions/skirmishes to end after 1 minute) but I must admit I hadn't considered the fact that developers end up getting bad press for a buggy game.

Maybe one possible solution would be for official forum subforums discussing gameplay to link your cdkey to the ability to post in those subforums. I.e. only people with a legitimate copy could make posts in that section of the forums. This would prevent warez monkeys from bad-mouthing the game there.

On second thoughts, maybe not. The bad press outside of the official forum would probably get picked up on anyway and people would be reluctant to post in the forums anywy if they needed to validate their cdkey.
 
I'm interested to know how sales are done, as I thought retailers purchased the game from the publisher. So even if the game didn't sell in retail, the publisher has still shifted the units. They just won't get repeat orders due to the original supply still hanging around in retail.

But if the game is a highly anticipated title, large initial orders will be place in hope of meeting first wave of sales. I put this down to massive reductions on popular game franchises like Unreal Tournament 3 Collectors Edition that was going for less than £20. And the fact you can still get Bioshock Collector’s Edition.
 
Reading the article YOUR money actually supports the publishers :rolleyes: , not sure on the amount needed to recoop before it goes into the developer :eek:

The average AAA game needs to sell 80,000 copies to break even, for the developer to actually start making profits it has to sell a few hundred thousand.
 
I have to say I'm in two minds about this.

Sales of computer games have increased year-on-year for nearly 20 years now. Although the PC has lost ground from being the number one games platform its sales have still been increasing year-on-year as well.

There are some costs to take into account:
  • The cost of creating a game has increased substantially over that period
  • The level of piracy has increased substantially over that period
  • The amount spent on advertising has increased substantially

Still, with all those factors taken into account, software houses, big or small, should not be finding it difficult to turn a profit.

I don't disbelieve the guy when he says that the game experienced a 92% piracy rate, but I have to question why it was so high. This number is way in advance of figures the BSA quote as the average level of games piracy. In fact, it's so much higher that you have to wonder what exactly was going on with that game.

Piracy is a strange thing. If we change media for one moment, and look at films, we can see that, in the last five-six years the profit that MPAA organizations have made has actually tracked the amount of piracy of their products - the more piracy there has been the more money, in that year, the studios have made. It could be argued that this is simply because piracy tracks peoples interests in a product and thus if there are better products out in one year there will always be higher levels of piracy that year. I don't find this argument compelling though because I feel it fails to take into account that, as piracy is free, people will download something even if they have a vague interest in it - in the absence of something better to download.

If you're trying to stop piracy all you have to do is develop a system sufficiently complicated enough that it stops piracy for the first 6 months of a product's lifespan. It is in this first six months that most of the profit is made and, as such, any loss of profits after this are comparatively minor. People unsure whether to play a pirated copy of a game or buy a copy will, in the most, also give up waiting after a few weeks and buy a copy. How to make copy protection last six months is near impossible though. Certainly building in online content helps, but I can't help coming to the conclusion that we need to go back to the early 90's solution of physical devices. Whilst a very small custom-USB dongle would add to the cost of the game you could have a single device per developer to off-set the cost and, with it being firmware upgradeable, new ciphers for new games could be added relatively simply. It's a solution that wasn't popular in the past due to the added cost and hassle, but I think both of these can now be ironed out with the increase in tech.

Whether piracy should be destroyed though is, as I've previously indicated, debatable. This is because:
  • Piracy acts as a viral marketing tool - people start reporting how amazing the game is even before it is 'officially' released
  • It increases the user base, which in multiplayer games specifically, is very important
  • It gets people in to playing games who might not otherwise
  • It helps build children's exposure to games, which as the recent government white paper on creative Britain details, is vitally important in motivating people in to moving in to the creative industries when they grow up

Currently the most pirated 'console', by a huge margin, is the DS, which is also the best selling 'console'. It's not stopped developers making games for it nor has it made Nintendo stand up and try to do something about it (such as modifying the hardware/firmware to stop it) and, as such, there's at least an implication that developers and console manufacturers alike aren't as bothered about piracy as they seem to protest they are.




I currently have 13,000 words of notes on these issues :( dissertations are, like longcat, looonnnnnnng.
 
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Piracy made the PS2 the best selling game console ever sold.
Sony never really tried to stop it if you look at all the revisions the console has had in its lifetime.
 
I have to admit I'm surprised. PC Games are cheaper than console games. Why would anyone want to want 7 days for a pc game to download (they're huge in size) instead of going out and paying £30 for it?!

1. You know the game will work offline and online
2. You don't have to worry about your ISP slaping you across the face several times with your months bill for going over the bandwidth cap.
3. You're supporting the developers.

Because there are people that are deluded and believe they aren't stealing or causing anyone to lose money (just look at one of my previous threads on game piracy), or make up some bull about a way of testing whether a game is good or not. I suggested reading reviews but then was told they are always biased and full of lies (not in them words).

Before any game I've bought, I've read reviews on it. I've always enjoyed the games where they receive a good review...so they aren't really biased towards game developers are they.

Oh well, people will always be selfish. Always wanting but never giving.
 
Because there are people that are deluded and believe they aren't stealing or causing anyone to lose money (just look at one of my previous threads on game piracy), or make up some bull about a way of testing whether a game is good or not. I suggested reading reviews but then was told they are always biased and full of lies (not in them words).

Before any game I've bought, I've read reviews on it. I've always enjoyed the games where they receive a good review...so they aren't really biased towards game developers are they.
You either simply didnt read 'the other thread' or just want to force your view on people
Because as in that thread, in some (well most if you assume they are telling the truth) cases piracy increased sales (how you equate that to 'selfish' and 'wanting something for nothing' is beyond me)

If you want to buy drivvel, thats up to you. On the other hand if people don't buy the rubbish games at all then it would force the industry to produce better quality products rather than FIFA2020, Need for speed 50, or Sims 30000
Ultimately benefiting the consumer
 
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You either simply didnt read 'the other thread' or just want to force your view on people
Because as in that thread, in some (well most if you assume they are telling the truth) cases piracy increased sales (how you equate that to 'selfish' and 'wanting something for nothing' is beyond me)

If you want to buy drivvel, thats up to you. On the other hand if people don't buy the rubbish games at all then it would force the industry to produce better quality products rather than FIFA2020, Need for speed 50, or Sims 30000
Ultimately benefiting the consumer

Nail on the head :)
 
You either simply didnt read 'the other thread' or just want to force your view on people
Because as in that thread, in some (well most if you assume they are telling the truth) cases piracy increased sales (how you equate that to 'selfish' and 'wanting something for nothing' is beyond me)

If you want to buy drivvel, thats up to you. On the other hand if people don't buy the rubbish games at all then it would force the industry to produce better quality products rather than FIFA2020, Need for speed 50, or Sims 30000
Ultimately benefiting the consumer

If a game is 'drivvel' then why would you want to download it in the first place? Are you saying the likes of CoD4 is 'drivvel', and that is why people pirate it?

I don't see how I am forcing my opinion on others. No matter how you argue it, downloading a game is wrong.
 
I don't think it's really fair to blame piracy.

Realistically, how many people have computers capable of running games today at console quality or better, in comparison to how many people own a 360/PS3? For the figure above saying Bioshock sold 5 to 1 on consoles, am I the only one who thinks that's actually a pretty good number?

For consoles it's a lot more accessible which means it will always be the majority, whereas keeping a PC up-to-date with technology is a niche.

I don't doubt there probably is a bit of lost revenue due to pirates, but it comes back to how many people would have even bought it in the first place? The thing that annoys me is the pirates get treated like kings :o:

- Usually pre-release
- Protection removed (why should I have extra crap on my computer for to play my game when it doesn't stop pirates anyway :confused:)
- No need for the dvd
- Digital backups with iso's ect.

Sidetracked...
 
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