plan for collapse of Thames Water

[delta0]

Thames's previous investors (Macquarie) badly asset stripped the company, then sold up. New investors probably blindsided by the state of it when they bought it, then had to inject equity to re-establish asset replacement rates because the poor performance became apparent. My understanding is new investors have not taken a dividend.

Macquarie wades back into UK with majority stake in Southern Water

Australian investment bank left Thames Water saddled with debt when it sold up in 2017

www.google.com

Just going through them.

- Thames Water debt £13.4bn. 15 million customers. £893/customer
- United utilities £7.6bn. 3 million customers. £2533/customer
- Anglian £6.8bn. 4.3 million customers. £1581/customer.
- Severn trent £6.5bn. 4.8 million customers. £1354/customer.
- Southern £6.0bn. 2.5 million customers. £2400/customer.
- Yorkshire £5.7bn. 5.7 million customers. £1000/customer.
- Northumbrian £3.2bn. 2.7 million customers. £1185/customer.
- Wessex £2.4bn. 2.9 million customers. £828/customer.
- South West £2.3bn. 1.7 million customers. £1353/customer.

 

[VincentHanna]

More this stuff comes out the more damage it's going to do to the tories. Unfortunately people have short memories and it's going to fall in labours watch to pay for it.

Then, 4 years later the tories will be back saying "look at this huge deficit Labour have ran up" and I'm sure the public will slurp it up.


Real fear that Labour will last one term due to mess they are inheriting.

You say that, but the tories got away with saying "Labour left us in this mess, remember the note?" for 12 years before voters started thinking "Hang on, haven't you had long enough to sort it out now?"

 

[delta0]

Real fear that Labour will last one term due to mess they are inheriting.

That’s the story of every government. We don’t forget the note left by the previous chancellor saying there’s no money left.

 

[Ali195]

More this stuff comes out the more damage it's going to do to the tories. Unfortunately people have short memories and it's going to fall in labours watch to pay for it.

Then, 4 years later the tories will be back saying "look at this huge deficit Labour have ran up" and I'm sure the public will slurp it up.


Real fear that Labour will last one term due to mess they are inheriting.

This to me is a turning point for the UK. We desperately need electoral reform to stop this, otherwise why have one party invest whilst the next cuts?

Voters are stupid, one specific group (the grey, wealthy) have huge sway by voting en mass for Tory and the younger lot can't be bothered. Everyone else is along for the ride stuck in middle watching a slow car crash of economic incompetence and corruption.

 

[Mrwong]

Just going through them.

- Thames Water debt £13.4bn. 15 million customers. £893/customer
- United utilities £7.6bn. 3 million customers. £2533/customer
- Anglian £6.8bn. 4.3 million customers. £1581/customer.
- Severn trent £6.5bn. 4.8 million customers. £1354/customer.
- Southern £6.0bn. 2.5 million customers. £2400/customer.
- Yorkshire £5.7bn. 5.7 million customers. £1000/customer.
- Northumbrian £3.2bn. 2.7 million customers. £1185/customer.
- Wessex £2.4bn. 2.9 million customers. £828/customer.
- South West £2.3bn. 1.7 million customers. £1353/customer.

Well whoever were the advisors on that deal may be liable. Unfortunately, the debt it there, and they will not pay towards it.
The main companies do not own the shares directly, the shares are held in holding companies, if it becomes to expensive they will close it.

 

[Mrwong]

This to me is a turning point for the UK. We desperately need electoral reform to stop this, otherwise why have one party invest whilst the next cuts?

Voters are stupid, one specific group (the grey, wealthy) have huge sway by voting en mass for Tory and he younger lot can't be bothered. Everyone else is along for the ride stuck in middle watching a slow car crash of economic incompetence and corruption.

Boomers have left us with another mess. lol they just keep on giving these boomers.

 

[Doobedoo]

Imagine thinking your vote is actually meaningful.

 

[Doobedoo]

Boomers have left us with another mess. lol they just keep on giving these boomers.

Dude to be fair you were moving a year or so ago. Are you even a native in the first place?

 

[Jono8]

This to me is a turning point for the UK. We desperately need electoral reform to stop this, otherwise why have one party invest whilst the next cuts?

Voters are stupid, one specific group (the grey, wealthy) have huge sway by voting en mass for Tory and the younger lot can't be bothered. Everyone else is along for the ride stuck in middle watching a slow car crash of economic incompetence and corruption.

The trouble is, the wealthy and their insatiable greed are responsible for 99.9% of the problems and frustrations that we have to put up with.

Stupid people manage to make other entities the enemy whilst missing the the actual problem, and who we should be directing all our anger at.

 

[Mrwong]

Dude to be fair you were moving a year or so ago. Are you even a native in the first place?

You think moving to another country is that easy?
It is not like moving to another part of the county.

 

[Doobedoo]

You think moving to another country is that easy?
It is not like moving to another part of the country.

How hard is it it’s not like millions haven’t done it already. You act like you are a part of this country and I have my doubts given your post history.

 

[Mrwong]

How hard is it it’s not like millions haven’t done it already. You act like you are a part of this country and I have my doubts given your post history.

yes, Millions have done it, but they have taken a few years to do it. It is not, pick up an go, like you are going on a holiday.
It takes a lot of planning etc..

I can see why people end up in a mess with their lives in the UK.
I can see why the UK is in the mess it is, I can also see is going to cost a lot just to service this mess, to fix it well I don't think the UK can afford to.

 

[delta0]

yes, Millions have done it, but they have taken a few years to do it. It is not, pick up an go, like you are going on a holiday.
It takes a lot of planning etc..

I can see why people end up in a mess with their lives in the UK.
I can see why the UK is in the mess it is, I can also see is going to cost a lot just to service this mess, to fix it well I don't think the UK can afford to.

The scarier thing is the UK is on the lower end of debt to gdp for the G7 and is mid table in the world.

 

[Mrwong]

The scarier thing is the UK is on the lower end of debt to gdp for the G7 and is mid table in the world.

UK borrowed 13% more than last year.

 

[SupraWez]

Just going through them.

- Thames Water debt £13.4bn. 15 million customers. £893/customer
- United utilities £7.6bn. 3 million customers. £2533/customer
- Anglian £6.8bn. 4.3 million customers. £1581/customer.
- Severn trent £6.5bn. 4.8 million customers. £1354/customer.
- Southern £6.0bn. 2.5 million customers. £2400/customer.
- Yorkshire £5.7bn. 5.7 million customers. £1000/customer.
- Northumbrian £3.2bn. 2.7 million customers. £1185/customer.
- Wessex £2.4bn. 2.9 million customers. £828/customer.
- South West £2.3bn. 1.7 million customers. £1353/customer.

Its crazy isn't it, so much money siphoned away into pockets using these services, if a company has debt it cannot cover it should not be able to pay divs or bonuses, get the house in order first, absolutely bonkers.

Everyone knows where this is going, water bills for those affected will be going up, then those not affected will slowly increase bills to level it out.

 

[danlightbulb]

Just going through them.

- Thames Water debt £13.4bn. 15 million customers. £893/customer
- United utilities £7.6bn. 3 million customers. £2533/customer
- Anglian £6.8bn. 4.3 million customers. £1581/customer.
- Severn trent £6.5bn. 4.8 million customers. £1354/customer.
- Southern £6.0bn. 2.5 million customers. £2400/customer.
- Yorkshire £5.7bn. 5.7 million customers. £1000/customer.
- Northumbrian £3.2bn. 2.7 million customers. £1185/customer.
- Wessex £2.4bn. 2.9 million customers. £828/customer.
- South West £2.3bn. 1.7 million customers. £1353/customer.

Take a look at this report if you're interested.

https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/MFR_2021-22.pdf

Thames has the highest gearing, even though its per customer debt is lowest. Its because London is densely populated so it skews the figures when normalised.

You can see various other metrics in the report. Thames was stable credit rating and not on negative outlook.

 

[delta0]

UK borrowed 13% more than last year.

Despite that they still sit 5/7 in the G7 and the middle of the world ranking, and also it seems near the average for the EU27

 

[Monkeynut]

Just going through them.

- Thames Water debt £13.4bn. 15 million customers. £893/customer
- United utilities £7.6bn. 3 million customers. £2533/customer
- Anglian £6.8bn. 4.3 million customers. £1581/customer.
- Severn trent £6.5bn. 4.8 million customers. £1354/customer.
- Southern £6.0bn. 2.5 million customers. £2400/customer.
- Yorkshire £5.7bn. 5.7 million customers. £1000/customer.
- Northumbrian £3.2bn. 2.7 million customers. £1185/customer.
- Wessex £2.4bn. 2.9 million customers. £828/customer.
- South West £2.3bn. 1.7 million customers. £1353/customer.

Those United Utilities and Southern debts per customer are terrifying.

 

[413x]

Even dwr cymru has relatively high debt even though its not for profit

 

[Trifid]

Just going through them.

- Thames Water debt £13.4bn. 15 million customers. £893/customer
- United utilities £7.6bn. 3 million customers. £2533/customer
- Anglian £6.8bn. 4.3 million customers. £1581/customer.
- Severn trent £6.5bn. 4.8 million customers. £1354/customer.
- Southern £6.0bn. 2.5 million customers. £2400/customer.
- Yorkshire £5.7bn. 5.7 million customers. £1000/customer.
- Northumbrian £3.2bn. 2.7 million customers. £1185/customer.
- Wessex £2.4bn. 2.9 million customers. £828/customer.
- South West £2.3bn. 1.7 million customers. £1353/customer.

Almost makes Thames look well managed... The government definitely needs to lock down the dividend rules so money can't leave these businesses when they are plagued by debt and avoiding their responsibilities to the environment. Ultimately, it looks like we will all be paying substantially more in future years.