Plasma is dead !!

chaparral · 6 Mar 2008 at 07:34

adfinni said:
Im with you james. Even the x3500 sony had poor black levels compared to the panasonic and especially the kuro I saw.

Went home at the weekened and my parents toshiba 42X3030 had what looked like greys and not blacks. I even configured the tv in the service menu when we got it and improved the picture. LCDs really don't compete with plasmas yet for quality.

A quote from someone that changed from a sony 52x3500 LCD to a pioneer 50" plasma

cheekychappie2k said:
After owning a sony 52x3500 and turning ALL of the settings to the minimum and the set still illuminating my front room to the point that you can see your way around without turning on the light, to what the pio does which is basically not being able to see... i think that says to me that you have a set which pumps out the least luminance it possibly can...

to be able to see shadow detail in the most miniscule of light, you need some light... unfortunately, due to the fact that we use light to display images on screen, you cant get away from it showing some light. Its not that the screen is 'dark grey', its that the screen is black, but there is a faint glow which makes the mind percieve its grey.

wwwebber · 6 Mar 2008 at 09:02

Lets not get into a LCD vs plasma debate - there's no point. The fact of the matter is that plasma has taken a knock here and is increasingly being pushed into the larger screen segment as LCD tech is improved and becomes cheaper. This is regardless of black levels !!.

Corasik · 6 Mar 2008 at 19:08

Panasonic panels are extending the limits on plasma all the time, they have a huge R&D effort on them. Panny have the only 42inch 1920x1080p plasma panel, and while the Pioneer might have better colours and blacks, its 1920x1080 that the salemen in the shops will push for.

The 58 and 65inch Panasonic 10th generation 1920x1080 panels are superb, not far behind pioneer in overall picture quality, at about 1/2 the price. Panny are pushing out TV's which compete in price with LCD sets, yet have the superiour picture quality of plasma.

Sony only left the Plasma market because they NEVER made their own panels. Pioneer, well they will probably source panels from Panasonic, and who's to say that they wont offer Panny a deal trading their latest panel enhancements giving them the improved blacks as part of a deal for supplying them panels, or even simply have Panny manufacture the panels to the old Pioneer/NEC specs. (There are several other plasma fabs around too, so they wouldnt be forced to use panny panels).

Margaret · 6 Mar 2008 at 20:45

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6527635&postcount=7

Is that Sony picture accurate? Then black levels are absolutely TERRIBLE, even the Pioneer isn't too hot there and that's a Plasma.

badbob · 6 Mar 2008 at 20:52

Pioneer is pulling out

My dealer told me this a couple of weeks ago, I didn't believe him

james.miller · 6 Mar 2008 at 20:54

lol no. thats far too over exposed to be an accurate representation of how the displays actually look, but he does say that in the post. try this:

daylight:

low light:

thats MY 40w2000 by the way

that 2nd pic is still a little over exposed. when im all set up again ill take some proper pics and show you guys

but it does show you what ive said all along, even my acient crt is better than my once top of the range 40w2000

wwwebber · 6 Mar 2008 at 20:56

Jihad said:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6527635&postcount=7

Is that Sony picture accurate? Then black levels are absolutely TERRIBLE, even the Pioneer isn't too hot there and that's a Plasma.

Quoted from the link

"Please note that these are long exposure photographs used to show relative black levels, not absolute. It is not indicative of how the sets look in a dark room (no photograph will show that properly)"

badbob · 6 Mar 2008 at 20:56

egh quite a bit of bleed on the right. So much for Sony quality. Here's snapshot of my LCD in the total dark.

james.miller · 6 Mar 2008 at 20:59

badbob said:
egh quite a bit of bleed on the right. So much for Sony quality. Here's snapshot of my LCD in the total dark.

IMAGE

not really, mine is by far one of the better sets. its over exaggerated in that picture as i said. you can see its over exposed from the osd in the top left of the screen

here's a real picture of my 24" dgm

Margaret · 6 Mar 2008 at 21:12

Some of them DGM's are excellent.

Vertigo · 6 Mar 2008 at 22:33

This is frankly staggering news, considering all the hype they were surrounding their new Kuros with at CES, in addition to the new uber-contrast prototype.

I'm stunned. Seriously hope this doesn't spell the end for Plasma as I was planning on getting a 46" Panny in the next few months. Plasma is still way ahead of LCD on large screens with fast moving action imho.

[DOD]Asprilla · 7 Mar 2008 at 13:01

Latests Press release:

http://pioneer.jp/press/pdf/ir/080307_restructuring-e.pdf

The jist is that they are teaming up with Sharp on LCD and are out sourcing the production of of their plasma panels using their technology rather than buying in someone elses panels entirely.

Flying Gribble · 7 Mar 2008 at 17:57

This bit from the press release looks interesting

Plans also call for engineers from Pioneer and Sharp to team up to develop LCD TVs that carry on the legacy of the Pioneer “KURO” series in terms of high picture and sound quality.

Fr0dders · 7 Mar 2008 at 21:27

Flying Gribble said:
This bit from the press release looks interesting

Sony are in bed with Sharp as well after there S-LCD venture with samsung went sour

could be very interesting times ahead for LCD if sony sharp and pioneer are working together.

Biohazard · 7 Mar 2008 at 23:09

I wish I could afford a plasma... LCD have to do.

Oops Dead Again · 7 Mar 2008 at 23:25

MrLOL said:
Sony are in bed with Sharp as well after there S-LCD venture with samsung went sour

could be very interesting times ahead for LCD if sony sharp and pioneer are working together.

Especially when you consider what Pioneer's engineers have achieved with plasma

Owenb · 8 Mar 2008 at 00:14

Is anyone actually reading the articles? Pioneer are not leaving the plasma business they are just outsourcing the panel manufacturing. Why spend millions/billions on plants/R&D to make 500,000 panels a year when Panasonic can do it for less as they sell 10 times more. Panels are an important part of a TV but not the only part. Afaik even the big boys like Samsung/LG.Philips buy panels from other companies that are unknown but who make up a big share of market.

It seems that Pioneer will have very little to do with the LCD that they get from Sharp- just stick on their own sound.

DolbyDigitalTHX · 8 Mar 2008 at 09:20

Owenb said:
Is anyone actually reading the articles?

If any of us could actually read, we wouldn't need TVs...

Special thanks to my daughter for reading this thread out to me and typing this reply.