I think MAF is essentially zone 2 training. I will give it another attempt and try the "shuffle walk" .
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Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running
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I think MAF is essentially zone 2 training. I will give it another attempt and try the "shuffle walk" .
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So, based on this mornings run I would have to have started walking somewhere around 100m into the run in order to stay down at 127 (180 - 53) !
Soldato
Be advised (warned?) it can take a long, long time for the body to adjust to that. Probably 2-3 months as @meandu229 mentioned.
Yeah, it's where i always struggle with it too. Maybe i don't hit it quite as early in the run as you, but certainly during any prolonged run i'm not really staying under 143. I'd say i tend to average around the 150-155 mark. Although that's on a short 4ish mile run and i'd say it's usually a struggle to get under 155 at the end of the run as fatigue kicks in due to lack of fitness.
Saying that, i was looking to grab a graph from last nights run, and it looks like it was more or less a perfect run. Although i'd be well above the MAF target if using that metric as most of that Zone 2 was at the higher end.
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That looks ok to me. Mine was much worse, but I felt good. I didn't feel at all like i was unable to carry on. I guess a lot of this is to do with your actual max HR, and if it is better than the approx formula or not.
Soldato
Has anyone here read Endure by Alex Hutchinson? I'm currently on holiday and have replaced my daily run with sitting by a pool, so my training regime is now entirely focused on reading about how I can be a better runner
Can very much recommend. It's really well written and goes into all aspects of what limits performance and clarifies several historic misconceptions.
After my previous post of questioning the number of running books i have, i decided to download my Kindle content....Around 18% of all my Kindle book (126 in total) relate to running.
My "Adventure" category is generally around other activities, so Hiking, Cycling, Mountaineering etc so combine the 2 and you're almost at 50%
| Title | Author |
| The Rise of the Ultra Runners: A Journey to the Edge of Human Endurance | Adharanand Finn |
| Endure: Mind, Body and the Curiously Elastic Limits of Human Performance | Alex Hutchinson |
| Natural Born Heroes: The Lost Secrets of Strength and Endurance | Christopher McDougall |
| Born to Run: The hidden tribe, the ultra-runners, and the greatest race the world has never seen | Christopher McDougall |
| In It for the Long Run: Breaking records and getting FKT | Damian Hall |
| A Runner's High: Older, Wiser, Slower, Stronger | Dean Karnazes |
| Ultramarathon Man: Confessions of an All-Night Runner | Dean Karnazes |
| Why Running Matters: Lessons in Life, Pain and Exhilaration – From 5K to the Marathon | Ian Mortimer |
| The Awakened Ape: A Biohacker's Guide to Evolutionary Fitness, Natural Ecstasy, and Stress-Free Living | Jevan Pradas |
| Runner's High or: Can LSD Make You Gay? How I Ran an Ultramarathon Tripping on a Psychedelic Drug | Lucas Simon Drake |
| 80/20 Running: Run Stronger and Race Faster By Training Slower | Matt Fitzgerald |
| Failure is an Option: On the trail of the world's toughest mountain race | Matt Whyman |
| One Track Mind: What Running 150 Miles in a Day Can Teach You About Life | Michael Stocks |
| The Long Run (Kindle Single) | Mishka Shubaly |
| Training For Ultra: Ultra Running Stories From the Middle of the Pack | Rob Steger |
| Discovering Beautiful: On The Road To Somewhere | Rory Miller |
| Blueprint: Build a Bulletproof Body for Extreme Adventure in 365 Days | Ross Edgley |
| The Ultra Marathon Bible: Your #1 Beginner’s Training Guide to Prepare, Run, and Survive Your First 50k to 100 Mile Race | Samuel Nash |
| North: Finding My Way While Running the Appalachian Trail | Scott Jurek |
| Eat and Run: My Unlikely Journey to Ultramarathon Greatness | Scott Jurek, Steve Friedman |
| There is no Map in Hell: The record-breaking run across the Lake District fells | Steve Birkinshaw |
| Don't Stop Me Now: 26.2 Tales of a Runner’s Obsession | Vassos Alexander |
| Running Up That Hill: The highs and lows of going that bit further | Vassos Alexander |
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So I like heart based running. My perceived easy runs were around 10:30 min miles but when checking heart rate they were mostly zone 4.
I went out purposely monitoring the heart rate to get an actual easy run and my speed was 13ish min miles. Did it feel easy? Yes of course but that's the idea that at the end of the run you still feel fresh. My easy pace is now around 10:30 - 11 min miles so has got faster. First few times I went I jogged really slow and if my heart rate creeped up I walked until it dropped back down and went again.
I'm in my 4th month of training this way and really happy with the results and lack of injury.
Previously Ive always picked up injuries or got demoralised by lack of improvement
I went out purposely monitoring the heart rate to get an actual easy run and my speed was 13ish min miles. Did it feel easy? Yes of course but that's the idea that at the end of the run you still feel fresh. My easy pace is now around 10:30 - 11 min miles so has got faster. First few times I went I jogged really slow and if my heart rate creeped up I walked until it dropped back down and went again.
I'm in my 4th month of training this way and really happy with the results and lack of injury.
Previously Ive always picked up injuries or got demoralised by lack of improvement
Great insight. I'm at the beginning of that journey I guess.
Soldato
Also what's amazing, is that i've just been looking at my Strava and the first recorded run was November 2016 and is probably faster/easier than anything i've done in the last 5 years despite massively increased volume/training.
The only thing that's changed is that i would say i was stronger back then as i used to go to the gym much more than i do now. It was also on the back of ~6 months of regular running which wasn't recorded in line with the gym because i was away from home and had nothing better to do than exercise. Then got home and did very little for about 9 months or so before i picked up running again but having presumably lost any strength i'd accumulated.
I've never re-hit those heights and i wonder why i've never been able to continue motivation for weights/strength. I enjoy it when i do it, but i never seem to have the consistency.
The only thing that's changed is that i would say i was stronger back then as i used to go to the gym much more than i do now. It was also on the back of ~6 months of regular running which wasn't recorded in line with the gym because i was away from home and had nothing better to do than exercise. Then got home and did very little for about 9 months or so before i picked up running again but having presumably lost any strength i'd accumulated.
I've never re-hit those heights and i wonder why i've never been able to continue motivation for weights/strength. I enjoy it when i do it, but i never seem to have the consistency.
Soldato
Had my appointment. Seems i'll be referred for a Ultrasound guided Cortisone injection which they're hopeful of resolving the problem. However whatever the consultant did in his diagnosis has caused a lot of pain in the area!
On another note. Decided to set myself a July challenge to run more than any previous month of 2023. Went back through prior notes and the max distance in a month is May with 48 miles. That shouldn't be hard!
My last 18 months looks even more depressing
On another note. Decided to set myself a July challenge to run more than any previous month of 2023. Went back through prior notes and the max distance in a month is May with 48 miles. That shouldn't be hard!
My last 18 months looks even more depressing
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Achy from the activities earlier in the week didn't want to push it before the park run so I jumped on the home cycle for steady and uniform zone 2 training. Well I was disciplined this time and kept it between 113-131 bpm.
Interestingly, strava defines zone 2 as 123-153. Probably doesn't make much of a difference ? Got to say its pretty dull but if it means my peak 190bpm from 2k onwards in a 5k drops so be it.
@Martynt74 what's the injury ?
Interestingly, strava defines zone 2 as 123-153. Probably doesn't make much of a difference ? Got to say its pretty dull but if it means my peak 190bpm from 2k onwards in a 5k drops so be it.
@Martynt74 what's the injury ?
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Did my first 10k today. Hilly route with 100m steep incline.
Two hours later getting lateral knee pain - ouch. It's probably the IT band. Will slow down on the frequency of runs and try some outer glute strengthening. Hope it settles - quite sore!
Two hours later getting lateral knee pain - ouch. It's probably the IT band. Will slow down on the frequency of runs and try some outer glute strengthening. Hope it settles - quite sore!
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Went a bit over 10k yesterday, was a decent run and felt good.
Going out tomorrow for a long easy run, tempted to stretch it to 1/2marathon depending on the weather, only ever gone the distance one but tempted to do 10k then walk and fuel for 1k then carry on for the rest of the distance.
i have my 10k race on the 23rd or 24th presume the week before just take it easy with some short easy running?
Going out tomorrow for a long easy run, tempted to stretch it to 1/2marathon depending on the weather, only ever gone the distance one but tempted to do 10k then walk and fuel for 1k then carry on for the rest of the distance.
i have my 10k race on the 23rd or 24th presume the week before just take it easy with some short easy running?
Soldato
Bursitis in between the 2nd and 3rd metatarsal. It seemed to flair up after a 40ish mile run over the moors. Ordinarily i don't think that would've caused it, but i'd been in Spain and running in some barefoot shoes and a couple of runs went well beyond what is sensible until your feet are used to running in them. So i think that likely caused a few issues and then the long ultra was the final nail (combined with being attacked by a dog at mile 8 and my gair likely being considerably different), and then despite various treatments from a few different podiatrists it just never went away.
I went for a private MRI in March who confirmed bursitis and the correct treatment is an ultrasound guided cortisone, I was booked in at the GP but apparently they aren't trained to do injections to the foot as it's so difficult due to size. So i had 2 days of trying to find someone privately and got someone willing to do a non guided injection. He said it might work and if not would likely offer some improvement.
It did help a little, but it still causes problems. Especially on anything over 5 miles.
Soldato
Awesome stuff, you've moved up quick. The knee pain could've come from the steep descents. Depending on how you run down them, as if you try and slow down you'll massively load your quads through braking. I used to find that until you're confident to "let go"
It's a difficult one and probably something you need to play around with yourself to see how your body works. Sometimes if i'm doing a race i benefit from a nice easy 5k the day before as it loosens everything up and gets the body ready to run. Other people like to just rest.
I'd probably aim to do say 50% of your usual weekly volume in that week but just keep it really really easy.
Hopefully you'll get some benefit from the steroid injection.
I've been working on stretches, yoga and self physio exercises for the IT band. Then today I did some strength training targeting the outer glutes and hamstrings. This was in place of a run. I think there's an element of over use here as my body gets use to things.
Next run will be Wednesday. Something light.
I've been going down the new trainers rabbit hole and trying to settle between the hoka mach 5s and the Nike Pegasus 40s. Leaning towards the mach 5s as reading they are lighter and more versatile.
I've been working on stretches, yoga and self physio exercises for the IT band. Then today I did some strength training targeting the outer glutes and hamstrings. This was in place of a run. I think there's an element of over use here as my body gets use to things.
Next run will be Wednesday. Something light.
I've been going down the new trainers rabbit hole and trying to settle between the hoka mach 5s and the Nike Pegasus 40s. Leaning towards the mach 5s as reading they are lighter and more versatile.
Soldato
Don't worry. Couple more months in this thread and it won't be an either/or. You'll have about 5 pairs for road running and then a variety of others for different terrains
i've got 3 pairs, Nike Invincible 2, Asics Noosa Tri 14 and Adidas Adios Pro 3Don't worry. Couple more months in this thread and it won't be an either/or. You'll have about 5 pairs for road running and then a variety of others for different terrains
Only other pair i wouldn't mind is some trail running ones at some point but tbh when i first have a go at trail running if its dry i'll just take the Nikes.
Asics are used the most, over 100 mile in them so far and still like them for pretty much all runs. I have used an old pair of the nikes to the extent theyre falling apart but since geting the asics i've not done more than 30-40 miles in the nikes. AP3's seem really good, just wearing them in really at the moment.
Some people have countless pairs but i'm not sure where i would put them and if i'd really get the use.
Realistically i think most could just have a super shoe for the fast running and something comfy for everything else.
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Am I just a cheapskate? I have 1 pair, and then when they are on their last legs, I just buy another pair of the same 
I could just get away with my Asics I think and they're the one pair I would 100% buy again when they fall to pieces.Am I just a cheapskate? I have 1 pair, and then when they are on their last legs, I just buy another pair of the same
My friend runs loads and tends to stick to one trainer until its knackered, he does irons man's around the world and spends less than me on trainers. I don't go out drinking or have any other hobbies really so I don't mind it.
Soldato
In your old age. You’ve just not learnt that men ***** lots of money on hobbies!Am I just a cheapskate? I have 1 pair, and then when they are on their last legs, I just buy another pair of the same