Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

[Martynt74]

Effectively, the theory is that you should spend 80% of your workouts at a low intensity and then 20% at a high intensity. It's a pattern that's been observed across elite athletes across all sports, so not just running.

So effectively if you did 5 workouts per week for an hour each. 4 of them would be a really slow easy jog at conversational pace, and then the 5th might be something like sprints or hill repeats. As mentioned above by @SPG it can take around 3 months before the effects really become apparent and it can feel a bit backwards because you end up running slower than you do currently for the majority of your running (something i'm currently struggling with as someone fairly new to applying the approach!)

This book highlights a lot of the science behind it and references the guy in the above video and his research a lot.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/80-20-Running-Stronger-Training-ebook/dp/B00IIVFAEY

I'm currently reading through it.

 

[Martynt74]

Ha well funnily enough after the previous post about how my body just doesn't work in zone 2. I went out today and did pretty much the whole run in it (apart from a little at the end where it spiked).

It's a route i do fairly often with a slight detour to increase the distance. It's things like this which make planning so difficult when it comes to running. Take the following 2 runs

One from last Tuesday and one from Today
https://www.strava.com/activities/6235849682



https://www.strava.com/activities/6265295396




Todays run was longer, faster (slightly) and around double the elevation (still fairly flat) and yet my average HR was lower with a much better distribution of the zones!



@Lysander the bottom chart is kind of what the 80% principle wants you to do for the majority of your running. The pace is a lot slower than i have ever ran at (Half marathon time being similar to yours/25 min 5k) so it's taking time adjusting to this kind of pace both mentally and physically, but i expect the benefits will come over time.

 

[Ian_Eb]

Basically, The 80/20 rule simply means that 80% of training runs are completed at a slow, easy pace, and only 20% at a harder effort

Then you sort out your HR zones and so on, so that you stay in that 'easy' zone correctly.

Scratch all of that. @Martynt74 has covered it in loads more detail above. Browser hadn't updated for some reason!

 

[SPG]

Big thing is to focus on time and not distance, your better of saying I am going to run for 30mins today and be mindful on pace and HR. Over a few runs the take a look at your pace, it should be improving or consistent. (of course you have bad days but we are looking at overalls at this point)

Another tip I was given by a couple of coaches the last 5mins of your run, you should push the pace and intensity to 70-80% the latest research indicates this has large positive effect with minimal injury.

Lots and lots of material on the internet now for 80/20 and endurance.

 

[jsmoke]

Just ran (24.10) 5k with 15m of gain. Goal of 20 mins by end of the year isn't going to happen I think I'll aim to get in the 22's though.

 

[AndyCr15]

Saw a knee specialist yesterday, he thinks I've got a torn meniscus in my left knee. Got an MRI booked for next week and will then go back to see him. I get the impression he thinks I should just stick to cycling. Cycling is definitely my passion, but running was quite handy for certain scenarios (limited time, poor weather etc) so will be a shame if it's no longer an option.

 

[Martynt74]

Saw a knee specialist yesterday, he thinks I've got a torn meniscus in my left knee. Got an MRI booked for next week and will then go back to see him. I get the impression he thinks I should just stick to cycling. Cycling is definitely my passion, but running was quite handy for certain scenarios (limited time, poor weather etc) so will be a shame if it's no longer an option.

Hopefully it doesn't turn out to be anything serious. Seems we're all falling apart in here! Hows the ankle @neoboy?

Gutted. I'm heading down to Surrey tonight and was eyeing up a local wineyard. As i look on their website i see they host a Trail run around the estate which falls on Saturday. Annoyingly it's sold out. That would've been awesome!

https://www.maverick-race.com/products/the-maverick-exposure-lights-dark-surrey-2021

 

[Calpol]

Saw a knee specialist yesterday, he thinks I've got a torn meniscus in my left knee. Got an MRI booked for next week and will then go back to see him. I get the impression he thinks I should just stick to cycling. Cycling is definitely my passion, but running was quite handy for certain scenarios (limited time, poor weather etc) so will be a shame if it's no longer an option.

One of the problems for us cyclist is the hip mobility required for running and the role the hip plays in stabilising the knee is often under developed. As cycling requires different physiological bias you may find that focusing on strengthening the hips has a positive benefit. It's fine for specialist to say it might be meniscus but you have to understand why that may have occurred. Just saying "stick to cycling" is lazy and unsatisfying. Anyway good luck. Rant over

 

[AndyCr15]

I would point out, my knees were a mess for a long long time before I started cycling...

 

[neoboy]

I had part of my meniscus removed quite a few years back and my ACL reconstructed in 2015 and don't have issues with the knee running even at my weight but of course depends on the extent of your damage, but might not be a complete running death sentence.

I do make sure that I run almost exclusively on softer surfaces and avoid running on any hard surface as much as I can.

@neoboy?

Well touch wood, but it might not be as bad as it initially felt and I feared. Ankle naturally swelled right up by Saturday on both sides with bruising to boot, but then my actual foot started to swell and by Sunday evening it looked like this (don't click if don't like swollen gross feet).

By Tuesday swelling started to go right down and immediately felt much better, I even did a 7k hike yesterday with almost 500m elevation gain in Lake District! Probably should have rested but had it planned for a month with someone so just kept it real slow. Foot swelling gone now and can see my veins again so just the ankle still swollen but range of motion looks good, can put weight on it and even jogged from one end of the house to the next.

Dare I say, may even try a jog next month but try and rest it as much as I can until then.

 

[mid_gen]

Pretty happy today, decided to have another go at running, the other half has been making an effort to get into climbing so my time to give something a go.

Have always got pain on the outside of my right knee after 1k for years (decades)...so wasn't hopeful. Went to the Derby Runner shop and ended up with a pair of Altra Olympus 4. Just done a quick 3.5k around the local woods, up and down hills, over some uneven terrain...no knee pain! Finally.....be good to get some cardio in regularly now.

 

[hux]

Yeah, not much better as it's swollen on both sides of the ankle and getting all blue/purple now. Just keeping fingers crossed I didn't tear anything as that's really going to put a damper on things.

Ouch, yeah been there a few times until I realised I can only run in neutral shoes.
Last time it went up like a tennis ball, with a nice black line up the inside of my leg, touch wood I've not done anything since, but I do stick to using the same trail.
I'm fortunate that it's long and fairly constant, do get the odd surprise but nothing noteworthy.

Anyway, vo2 hasn't really gone up, so guessing I've reached my limit, but now I'm getting thinner I find myself able to stride out and able to maintain it.
So finally I'm starting to feel like a reasonable runner, just need to keep it up until march when my first half marathon is booked.
Currently around 90kg, but I lose around 1-2lbs every week.

 

[mid_gen]

Did 5k along Stanage Edge this afternoon, and not even a twinge from my historically dodgy right knee (IT band), or my left knee that suffered a grade 3 MCL tear in April.....really happy I can actually run.

Gone the whole hog and bought some man tights and a windproof now, fully paid up MAMIL now

 

[Bunko]

Sounds like a lot of positivity in here right now which is good! I've just finshed a 5k but it was the first run in 12 days, annoyed I left it so long but it's amazing how 1 missed day turns into 2, then 3... really enjoyed it though.

I've only got 1 run left from c25k so will be hopping straight into 10k training. Is there an app out there when I can enter say 10k and it'll alert me when I'm half way so I can run back on myself?

 

[Martynt74]

Did 5k along Stanage Edge this afternoon, and not even a twinge from my historically dodgy right knee (IT band), or my left knee that suffered a grade 3 MCL tear in April.....really happy I can actually run.

Gone the whole hog and bought some man tights and a windproof now, fully paid up MAMIL now

Awesome stuff, just think how much time you'll save by running to climbing spots

One thing i'd say is be careful not to overdo it, if you've had prior injuries. Just keep taking it fairly easy and enjoy it for what it is, rather than pushing for records etc.

Anyway, vo2 hasn't really gone up, so guessing I've reached my limit, but now I'm getting thinner I find myself able to stride out and able to maintain it.
So finally I'm starting to feel like a reasonable runner, just need to keep it up until march when my first half marathon is booked.
Currently around 90kg, but I lose around 1-2lbs every week.

I think it's fairly easy to reach a VO2 max limit, but on the flip side how much do you do to try and train that side? Most improvements so far will have come naturally but i would imagine once it plateaus it can then be improved by targeting specific VO2 max based sessions. What you'll likely be experiencing will be increased endurance which doesn't correlate to an increased VO2 max.

Sounds like a lot of positivity in here right now which is good! I've just finshed a 5k but it was the first run in 12 days, annoyed I left it so long but it's amazing how 1 missed day turns into 2, then 3... really enjoyed it though.

I've only got 1 run left from c25k so will be hopping straight into 10k training. Is there an app out there when I can enter say 10k and it'll alert me when I'm half way so I can run back on myself?

Agreed, lots of positivity, but also lots of new posters. Long may you all stick with it, that way it ends up less as an echo chamber of me posting all the time

To add to the positivity, i used my poles yesterday for the first time, really helps on the ascents and i got around 9.5 miles done in 2.5hours with lots of fast hiking practice. It's been a long time since i was on my feet walking around like that so glad i've held up well!

 

[mid_gen]

Awesome stuff, just think how much time you'll save by running to climbing spots

One thing i'd say is be careful not to overdo it, if you've had prior injuries. Just keep taking it fairly easy and enjoy it for what it is, rather than pushing for records etc.

Oh for sure...I'm not bothered about running performance, just happy to do some cardio to complement my climbing/mountaineering....and give me something to do on rainy days in the hills.

 

[mid_gen]

Just gone out for my first proper run, no stops. 5k bang on 30 minutes. Heart rate a constant 150. Still no knee pain. #winning

I still find it boring though....any tips for some earbuds so I can listen to some podcasts or something? Preferably ones that don't isolate outside noise so I don't get myself runover...

 

[Martynt74]

I have the Aftershokz Aeropex

They do lower models too but I’m a big fan.

 

[AndyCr15]

I have the Aftershokz Aeropex

They do lower models too but I’m a big fan.

Same. I love mine for cycling although the battery life is depleating now. Longer rides are sometimes too much, the Aeropex dying around 3 or 4 hours now

 

[Martynt74]

That’s a huge shame. How long have you had them? Any chance of a warranty return?

Given the cost I had assumed they’d last longer.