Please help total newby pick components for new PC (£1000 budget)

[Oswald]

Theres a ram divider to allow you to keep the memory within its limits, and still allow overclocking of the CPU.

I'd just stick with the Corsair Value, you can tighten the timings a little anyway with increased vdimm (ram voltage). CAS2.5-3-3 isnt really hugely slower than the kits that do 2-3-2, but much cheaper.

Keep in mind DDR2 works slightly differently, my comments are about socket 754\939 DDR systems. The value DDR2 kits can clock much better

Sorry, but what/where is the "RAM divider? Is this something in the motherboard BIOS? What are the memory limits, are they limits in terms of its speed? How do you know what the limits are and how does this relate to clocking the CPU?

When you say "you can tighten the timings a little anyway with increased vdimm (ram voltage)" what does this mean? Are the timings those numbers associated with the memory, like 2-3-2?

I'm trying to narrow everything down so I can make a definative component selection. I'm definately going for 939, I just need to decide between AMD X2 3800+ and AMD X2 4400+. I'm tempted to save the 70 quid and go for the 3800+ and attempt to overclock it. I think I will go for one of the suggested LanParty motherboards as they seem well speced and good for overclocking. The only thing that is putting me off them is the disclaimer saying they have to be sent direct to Holland if they go faulty. I'm still confused about the memory. I'll keep reading through these forums (have been for days ). Could you give me the part number for the Corsair please? Is "value" RAM like the Tesco "value" baked beans, ie your better off with Heinz? I don't mind paying more for superior (assuming they are) components as long as they all fit within my budget (or near as possible).

Again, thanks for all your continued help

 

[Oswald]

Just to clear it up a bit: Yes, the motherboard says it supports up to PC3200 (DDR400) but you see what's been happening is that people have been overclocking NOT only their processors out of spec but also memory (RAM). The latter produces very good results than just overclocking the processor alone. What the marketing people at companies like G.Skill did is picked up on this and started making and selling RAM advertised & guranteed to to run at up to 250MHz (DDR500 ~ PC4000) meaning that you are guranteed to get the RAM running at that speed. There is a rough guide on this here You'll also find other good guides as stickies at the top of most of the sub-forums under Hardware

Thanks for that mate, I'll have a read through those links. One question though, if the motherboard will use higher speed RAM, why don't they say so? Its like Ferrari saying one of their models does 160MPH when it actually does 200MPH. I can't see why you would hide that?

Thanks again

 

[Indy500]

Sorry, but what/where is the "RAM divider? Is this something in the motherboard BIOS?

Yes.

What are the memory limits, are they limits in terms of its speed? How do you know what the limits are and how does this relate to clocking the CPU?

Speed and timings (the mhz bit and the 2-3-2). When you raise the system clock (HTT\FSB) to overclock the CPU, the memory speed goes up with it, unless you set a divider.

When you say "you can tighten the timings a little anyway with increased vdimm (ram voltage)" what does this mean? Are the timings those numbers associated with the memory, like 2-3-2?

Yes. Additional voltage allows the memory to do more work per mhz (which is what the timings refer to).

I'm trying to narrow everything down so I can make a definative component selection. I'm definately going for 939, I just need to decide between AMD X2 3800+ and AMD X2 4400+. I'm tempted to save the 70 quid and go for the 3800+ and attempt to overclock it. I think I will go for one of the suggested LanParty motherboards as they seem well speced and good for overclocking. The only thing that is putting me off them is the disclaimer saying they have to be sent direct to Holland if they go faulty.

Afraid thats where DFI are based, its the same situation with Geil (theyre in Taiwan). Some manufacturers will pick up faulty items and deliver replacements, but this varies.

I'm still confused about the memory. I'll keep reading through these forums (have been for days ). Could you give me the part number for the Corsair please? Is "value" RAM like the Tesco "value" baked beans, ie your better off with Heinz? I don't mind paying more for superior (assuming they are) components as long as they all fit within my budget (or near as possible).

Cant really compare it like that. The "value" just isnt going to push the same mhz and timings as the "platinum" kits or whatever theyre called. If you want the better specced memory, up to you, but I dont think it adds much to the system, as opposed to spending money on graphics, hard drive, etc.

Again, thanks for all your continued help

Thats what this forum is for

Thanks for that mate, I'll have a read through those links. One question though, if the motherboard will use higher speed RAM, why don't they say so? Its like Ferrari saying one of their models does 160MPH when it actually does 200MPH. I can't see why you would hide that?

Not every PC4000 kit would run at PC4000 in every motherboard. Its a good idea to check compatibility on the memory manufacturers site.

 

[Oswald]

Not every PC4000 kit would run at PC4000 in every motherboard. Its a good idea to check compatibility on the memory manufacturers site.

I think we have gone full circle .

A few posts back, hp7909 recommended some components, including:

• DFI LanParty UT CFX3200-DR RD580 Crossfire (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-019-DF) £129.95
• G.Skill 2GB DDR HZ PC4000 (2x1GB) CAS3 Dual Channel Kit (F1-4000USU2-2GBHZ) (MY-008-GS) £124.95

What I asked then, but I still don't seem to get, is that the motherboard is capped at maximum RAM speed of PC3200 (DDR400) (according to the manufacturers specs). How is it then possible for it to work with the G.Skill PC4000 (DDR500)?

I get the fact that you can clock a CPU and clock the RAM (albeit that I don't yet fully understand HOW, but I'm reading up on it ), but if the motherboard is limited to DDR400 then what difference does it make if you've got DDR500 or DDR800 or DDR12000? Surely the motherboard is the limiting factor? Or is the DDR400 limit a lie?

Sorry if Im missing something obvious but I really don't get it.

Thanks in advance

 

[crashuk]

Doesnt bring much benefit, with there being a memory controller on the CPU. The CPU thus have direct access to the ram and high ram speed hasnt shown much of an improvement, given the costs of the "overclocking" kits. Personally, I'd just get a regular Corsair\Crucial 2GB kit (or 2 seperate 1GB modules of the same part number if this works out cheaper). The money can go on faster graphics, bigger hard drive etc..stuff which makes a difference.

thats no the case with am2 chips the faster the mem the better the performance.

 

[hp7909]

I think we have gone full circle .

A few posts back, hp7909 recommended some components, including:



What I asked then, but I still don't seem to get, is that the motherboard is capped at maximum RAM speed of PC3200 (DDR400) (according to the manufacturers specs). How is it then possible for it to work with the G.Skill PC4000 (DDR500)?

I get the fact that you can clock a CPU and clock the RAM (albeit that I don't yet fully understand HOW, but I'm reading up on it ), but if the motherboard is limited to DDR400 then what difference does it make if you've got DDR500 or DDR800 or DDR12000? Surely the motherboard is the limiting factor? Or is the DDR400 limit a lie?

Sorry if Im missing something obvious but I really don't get it.

Thanks in advance

The motherboard's not exactly limited to DDR400, please refer to manual for DFI LanParty UT CFX3200-DR RD580 Crossfire here as an example. Might help answer your questions. Also have a look at this at the same time

Also don't just refer to the specs given - they are just a reference (if i can call them that). If you search here or Google for any component/part you come across you might see what is really achievable!

 

[Oswald]

The motherboard's not exactly limited to DDR400, please refer to manual for DFI LanParty UT CFX3200-DR RD580 Crossfire here as an example. Might help answer your questions. Also have a look at this at the same time

Also don't just refer to the specs given - they are just a reference (if i can call them that). If you search here or Google for any component/part you come across you might see what is really achievable!

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read through . I wasn't aware the manufacturers specs are just a reference.

I never expected that building a PC from scratch would be such a headache!

Cheers

 

[Indy500]

thats no the case with am2 chips the faster the mem the better the performance.

I know, if you read 1 of my earlier posts you'll see I mention "value DDR2 kits clock much better" (than their DDR1 counterparts).

 

[hp7909]

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read through . I wasn't aware the manufacturers specs are just a reference.

NOT MANUFACTURERS, SELLERS You can't really expect the likes of OcUK to give a componet more webspace just to describe what its capable of That's where Forums and review sites come in. & speaking of which, good review of above mentioned m.board here

Building a PC with the basics is very easy. Overclocking just makes it a-little bit confusing

 

[crashuk]

I know, if you read 1 of my earlier posts you'll see I mention "value DDR2 kits clock much better" (than their DDR1 counterparts).

oh sorry my next upgrade will be am2 and ddr 800 or 900.

 

[Oswald]

NOT MANUFACTURERS, SELLERS You can't really expect the likes of OcUK to give a componet more webspace just to describe what its capable of

OK, thanks

But the manufacturers specs for the LanParty motherboard you recommended, and found here, states that its memory "Supports PC2100 (DDR266), PC2700 (DDR333) and PC3200 (DDR400) DDR SDRAM DIMM." It doesn't mention the DDR500. I wasn't refering to the info given on the Overclockers Catalog. In fact they are the ones who provide the link to the manufacturers site.

Cheers

 

[Indy500]

You need to check with G.skill as to whether theyve tested their sticks in the DFI.

Same as I checked OCZ's website for info on if their PC4000 would work in an MSI Neo2.