POE viability questions

[Meddling-Monk]

Hi all, want to get a quick sanity check from people who actually know and have experience.

I potentially have an option to get a cable out to the front door right now that does not involve needing to drill anything other than the inside of where I live. This would permit me to POE power anything outside I may want.

However, I will only be able to get one line out there and likely will be pre-made and terminated beforehand I will check it to make sure it works first.

My question is this:

If using POE over the line, am I limited by the amount of "connections" that I can use between power and the final device? As in:

POE Switch/Injector --> Solid Core Hardline --> Wall Mounted Box with RJ45 socket (Near front door) --> Pre-made and terminated Exterior Grade Cat5e/6 RJ45 either end routed through overhead (or possible channel) of door --> Outside Junction Box --> Whatever needs POE power

Will that work? Even though there are sections that connect to sections?

And if it's a doorbell and the ethernet cable is outside, I should VLAN the entire thing as well, yes?

Sorry for the amatuer questions, as not got experience in this section of networking. Any help appreciated.

 

[Semple]

Assuming connections to faceplates/couplers are fine then yeah I can't see you having any issues in a domestic environment.

I don't know why you'd go to the effort of terminating at an inside box, to connect to an outside box where you terminate again? A PoE doorbell will need connecting with an RJ45 connector, so I would just hardwire the other end of it to the inside box with a coupler. - simply put the fewer amount of connections the less likely something will work.

As for the VLAN question - there's plenty of reasons why you might want to have this device in a VLAN, but that's something you need to decide on what you're trying to accomplish by doing it that way.

 

[Meddling-Monk]

Assuming connections to faceplates/couplers are fine then yeah I can't see you having any issues in a domestic environment.

Thanks for confirming.

I don't know why you'd go to the effort of terminating at an inside box, to connect to an outside box where you terminate again? A PoE doorbell will need connecting with an RJ45 connector, so I would just hardwire the other end of it to the inside box with a coupler. - simply put the fewer amount of connections the less likely something will work.

Lets just say, this is the only workaround given the scenario I've found myself in sadly:

1. Aiming to use one of the newer Ring Doorbells (needed for Siri automation, Siri because need it in Cantonese, no other AI supports Cantonese as well as Siri).
2. New Door is being fitted as requested by landlord (Council, and has been delayed a fair while already), they won't allow modifications to their frame to pass any cabling out and there is no obvious way to get any cabling out through a different direction that won't run a mile outside before it gets to my door.
3. The installers are total bellends and have been awkward and lying about a whole bunch of stuff including what they will and will not do and that there are building regulations that my Community Fibre CSP (White Box connecting external Fibre and Internal Fibre together) is too close to the door and that I need to get it moved (near as I can tell from many searches, there is no such building regulation) and if anything gets damaged like wiring, not their responsibility - but they will "try their best" to leave any wiring in place if there is wiring there already. They even tried to tell me it didn't cost £250 to get the CSP moved, even after I told them I had an email quote from CF for costs to do so (at that time, before it got reduced to a flat fee of £75 now to move). Basically they just wanted to do the job and any "difficulties" for them is my problem and my cost to make it easier for them to do their job.
4. The key thing is they will try to accomodate any wiring going out. The thing is, if there's a pre-terminated cable I can test once they attempt to put in then if they damaged it beyond repair can then just "cut it out" there and then.
5. The Junction Box outside is to accomodate the POE to USB-C adapater Ring uses for their POE wired Doorbells (or any other POE devices in future).

As for the VLAN question - there's plenty of reasons why you might want to have this device in a VLAN, but that's something you need to decide on what you're trying to accomplish by doing it that way.

Largely for security since there will be an access point outside then by the external RJ45 cable.

 

[Armageus]

This would permit me to POE power anything outside I may want.

However, I will only be able to get one line

With one line you will always be limited by how much power you can supply. Whilst you can run PoE powered switches off it to have more than 1 device, there aren't a huge amount that will then supply PoE as well.
https://uk.store.ui.com/uk/en/category/switching-utility/products/usw-flex is an option but you need to power it with a PoE++ adapter, and then it will provide Poe Out.

and likely will be pre-made and terminated beforehand I will check it to make sure it works first.

Why pre-made/terminated beforehand? It's far easier to route it outside and then terminate

Will that work? Even though there are sections that connect to sections?

Ideally you'd avoid them, but you can use Couplers (IDC Punchdown ones are better rather than back to back RJ45) or even an RJ45 socket faceplate and then extend with another patch cable.
The more connections you have however, the more possible issues you have, especially in terms of connections that can get damp/corroded if not properly weatherproofed.

And if it's a doorbell and the ethernet cable is outside, I should VLAN the entire thing as well, yes?

Largely for security since there will be an access point outside then by the external RJ45 cable.

Whilst strictly speaking you probably should try to protect any outside connections (Either via VLANs, MAC filtering or other measures), but realistically no one is going to pull your door bell off just to plug into your network.

 

[Caged]

Any outdoor PoE switch that is powered by PoE will need to be weatherproof and take up quite a lot of space on your wall - are you prepared for that? In the Unifi product range it's a Flex switch inside a box that is 350 x 220 x 89 mm

 

[Meddling-Monk]

With one line you will always be limited by how much power you can supply. Whilst you can run PoE powered switches off it to have more than 1 device, there aren't a huge amount that will then supply PoE as well.
https://uk.store.ui.com/uk/en/category/switching-utility/products/usw-flex is an option but you need to power it with a PoE++ adapter, and then it will provide Poe Out.

Thanks, it's only for one device only that may be outside. No switch needed outside, the POE switch or injector will be inside the residence.

Why pre-made/terminated beforehand? It's far easier to route it outside and then terminate

Agree that it's easier to route then terminate, I've done plenty myself already. Only, that is not an option here. The Door Installers don't give a damn, but they are obligated to keep any lines in place they can't remove and responsibility is waived if those cables gets damaged. And that's why I want a pre-terminated exterior grade cable so I can quickly test both ends quickly once they have the new doorframe set in. If it's damaged, just remove and they can seal up the gap from the cable.

And since the only time I can sort it out is after they are finished, it's already done. I won't be able to route another cable through if it's a busted cable from them fitting in the new doorframe set. And they won't wait around for me to pull another cable through. So it's a one shot deal.

Ideally you'd avoid them, but you can use Couplers (IDC Punchdown ones are better rather than back to back RJ45) or even an RJ45 socket faceplate and then extend with another patch cable.
The more connections you have however, the more possible issues you have, especially in terms of connections that can get damp/corroded if not properly weatherproofed.

Yeah, that's what I'm aiming for - hardline into wall mounted faceplate with RJ45 (still on inside), the "patch cable" is basically the exterior grade cable being routed outside at the top of the new doorframe set and tucked into an external junction box that's weather proofed for use when needed and plugged into that faceplate inside.

Aware of the many connection points means more failure points also, but if there was an easy way to get a line out, I would have found it already and gone that route instead of looking into this one, as it's not ideal, but in a situation where there's no other options, there's not much choice to choose from, especially if it technically is viable.

Whilst strictly speaking you probably should try to protect any outside connections (Either via VLANs, MAC filtering or other measures), but realistically no one is going to pull your door bell off just to plug into your network.

Very true. But just want to make sure I have bases covered.

Any outdoor PoE switch that is powered by PoE will need to be weatherproof and take up quite a lot of space on your wall - are you prepared for that? In the Unifi product range it's a Flex switch inside a box that is 350 x 220 x 89 mm

Yeah, will not putting a PoE switch outside, so a smaller junction box is viable just for the Cat5e/6 cable that'll be hanging outside and to house the Ring PoE to USB-C adapater to connect their doorbells for power and connection.