Policing in the Seventies and Eighties
- Thread starter TimTom
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Haha, my imagination is running wild. Great stuff, Tim.
Drink was involved!
My Grandad was, and the 60's. Lots of interesting stories he's told, including some quite gruesome ones. Most of them amusing though.
Ranging from a member of the public finding him in full police uniform in a skip behind a jam and preserves factory picking out sachets of jam to take home, to having to slowly slide a deceased elderly man in a body bag down a flight of spiral stairs like a helter skelter because there was no other way to get him down. I have a recording of him telling that story.
I've been secretly taking voice recordings when my grandparents slip into wistful stories and anecdotes because they are all in their 80's now, and I think they would be nice to have when the inevitible happens.
Another good one I remember well is he was in someone's house with his sergeant after they responded to a domestic call, the guy picked up a knife, and the sergeant said to hit him, so he did,and he crumpled into a bookshelf which fell on top of him...
A few drink related incidents especially around the festive season as well. He mentioned having a whiskey in someones house when he questioned them, and his colleague smelled it on his breath so he took a breathalyster and quote "it may as well have exploded"
Also some horrible stories like a time he was called to a house after a young boy drowned in the pond, many years later he picked me up from my mechanics shop and I remember my mechanic and my grandad stopping dead and staring at each other because they realised at the same moment that one was the father of that boy who died in the 70's, and the other was the attending officer... They hadn't seen each other in 40 years but instantly recognised one another.
And several fatal accidents, from a horriffic car crash where a lorry sheared the side off of a landrover (And the driver...) like it was a bean tin, and they had to take her infant child who was in the back seat back to its family, along with the horrible news, to someone falling off of a pilon and hitting their head on the way down. He did make mention of being able to see their brain, which was nice...
There was apparently an alcoholic mortician who operated in what was effectively a shed behind a building in town, and his findings were always taken with a pinch of salt. He later died of liver failure or some other alcohol related thing.
Ranging from a member of the public finding him in full police uniform in a skip behind a jam and preserves factory picking out sachets of jam to take home, to having to slowly slide a deceased elderly man in a body bag down a flight of spiral stairs like a helter skelter because there was no other way to get him down. I have a recording of him telling that story.
I've been secretly taking voice recordings when my grandparents slip into wistful stories and anecdotes because they are all in their 80's now, and I think they would be nice to have when the inevitible happens.
Another good one I remember well is he was in someone's house with his sergeant after they responded to a domestic call, the guy picked up a knife, and the sergeant said to hit him, so he did,and he crumpled into a bookshelf which fell on top of him...
A few drink related incidents especially around the festive season as well. He mentioned having a whiskey in someones house when he questioned them, and his colleague smelled it on his breath so he took a breathalyster and quote "it may as well have exploded"
Also some horrible stories like a time he was called to a house after a young boy drowned in the pond, many years later he picked me up from my mechanics shop and I remember my mechanic and my grandad stopping dead and staring at each other because they realised at the same moment that one was the father of that boy who died in the 70's, and the other was the attending officer... They hadn't seen each other in 40 years but instantly recognised one another.
And several fatal accidents, from a horriffic car crash where a lorry sheared the side off of a landrover (And the driver...) like it was a bean tin, and they had to take her infant child who was in the back seat back to its family, along with the horrible news, to someone falling off of a pilon and hitting their head on the way down. He did make mention of being able to see their brain, which was nice...
There was apparently an alcoholic mortician who operated in what was effectively a shed behind a building in town, and his findings were always taken with a pinch of salt. He later died of liver failure or some other alcohol related thing.
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My Grandad was, and the 60's. Lots of interesting stories he's told, including some quite gruesome ones. Most of them amusing though.
Ranging from a member of the public finding him in full police uniform in a skip behind a jam and preserves factory picking out sachets of jam to take home, to having to slowly slide a deceased elderly man in a body bag down a flight of spiral stairs like a helter skelter because there was no other way to get him down.
Another good one I remember well is he was in someone's house with his sergeant after they responded to a domestic call, the guy picked up a knife, and the sergeant said to hit him, so he did,and he crumpled into a bookshelf which fell on top of him...
Also some horrible stories like a time he was called to a house after a young boy drowned in the pond, many years later he picked me up from my mechanics shop and I remember my mechanic and my grandad stopping dead and staring at each other because they realised at the same moment that one was the father of that boy who died in the 70's, and the other was the attending officer...
Poignant.
Yes, stories tend to fall into the horrific, comical or embarrassing categories. The tragic ones are probably best left in the archives. Lots of comical ones (like an officer buying a coffee in a plastic cup in a bakers shop one lunchtime, clumsily dropping it as he picked it up and having to apologise profusely as it showered the smart lady standing behind him, splattering her smart attire from top to bottom... then standing open-mouthed in the witness box in the magistrates court a short while later as the lady chairman of the bench came in, looking daggers at him, with coffee stains all over her dress...)
Embarrassing ones? Like, how do you know an officer in the witness box has just ‘followed through’? (answers on a postcard!)
I have added a few more which have stuck.
I believe once when he was on patrol at night he was leaning against a petrol station window, and rhythmically bounced against the window until the neat stack of tins on the other side all fell down... No idea why he did it but it made a good story... Perhaps he didn't get along with the garage owner.
I believe once when he was on patrol at night he was leaning against a petrol station window, and rhythmically bounced against the window until the neat stack of tins on the other side all fell down... No idea why he did it but it made a good story... Perhaps he didn't get along with the garage owner.
For actual documentary re: a police officer and youth offenders in 1975 - BFI does show this one apparently, it's still banned from being broadcast in the UK (after some Chief Constable kicked off about it):
some preview on YouTube:
This is a follow up to it, just a clip though on YouTube:
some preview on YouTube:
This is a follow up to it, just a clip though on YouTube:
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Caporegime
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I would watch this film.
Man of Honour
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Jesus. I think those "good old days" can stay in the past.
Also, it's available on Amazon Prime...
Soldato
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I remember several occasions where I was in a rural Hertfordshire pub in the mid 1980s near closing time and the local copper walked in, put his helmet on the bar and declared it a lock-in.
Only an absolute idiot would take a swing at a copper in those days as it was a guaranteed trip to intensive care after “accidentally falling down the stairs” in Stevenage nick several times. What actually happened was that said idiot got a kicking in the back of the police van and another hoofing when they got to the police station.
Police were both respected and feared back then as they were the biggest, most vicious and best armed gang around.
Only an absolute idiot would take a swing at a copper in those days as it was a guaranteed trip to intensive care after “accidentally falling down the stairs” in Stevenage nick several times. What actually happened was that said idiot got a kicking in the back of the police van and another hoofing when they got to the police station.
Police were both respected and feared back then as they were the biggest, most vicious and best armed gang around.
I remember my late father talking to one of his friends about a time when he moved from one area to another.
He said there was a big difference in that the weekend after giving the "yobos" a hiding in his old patch, they'd come up to him and apologise, but they wouldn't in his new patch. "A different class of yob".
Edit:
I remember another story I overheard that's quite funny. Back in the 60's I think there was a group protesting (I won't go into details) by climbing tall structures, possibly attaching themselves, and refusing to come down. My father was called to one such incident and the chap concerned was a very well known celebrity.
"I'm not coming down! You can't make me! I'm staying here!" etc etc etc
"No problem 'Tom' (not his real name). I have a big flask of tea in the van and the weather's about to turn. You stay up there as long as you want to."
He said there was a big difference in that the weekend after giving the "yobos" a hiding in his old patch, they'd come up to him and apologise, but they wouldn't in his new patch. "A different class of yob".
Edit:
I remember another story I overheard that's quite funny. Back in the 60's I think there was a group protesting (I won't go into details) by climbing tall structures, possibly attaching themselves, and refusing to come down. My father was called to one such incident and the chap concerned was a very well known celebrity.
"I'm not coming down! You can't make me! I'm staying here!" etc etc etc
"No problem 'Tom' (not his real name). I have a big flask of tea in the van and the weather's about to turn. You stay up there as long as you want to."
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Soldato
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My Dad joined in 1981 IIRC, he has picture with his service dates on hanging in his hallway that the Chief Constable presented to him on his retirement.
I've heard plenty of tales and was even occasionally used for surveillance cover when I was young!
One of the more amusing ones was he caught a well to do married man getting up to no good with a street prostitute in his flash car. My Dad told him he wasn't going to arrest him, but he or another officer would attend his home address the following day to "take a statement". The guy pleaded with him to arrest him instead because he didn't want his wife to find out. My Dad arranged for colleagues to drive a panda car past his house every couple of hours to wind him up - apparently he spent the whole day outside washing his car and tending his front garden so the Police wouldn't knock on his door. My Dad went round when he came on shift later and the guy offered him £100 to go away, so he marched up to the door which the wife answered. The guy was absolutely bricking it. He said "Please tell your husband not to attempt to bribe Police Officers in future" to which she replied "What has he done". After a long pause, he just said "motoring offence". He told guy as he was leaving that if he caught him at it again he'd just pop straight round and have a word with his wife!
He once "stole" a Ferrari that the owner had left the keys in - he moved it round the corner and waited for the owner to notice it had gone then gave him words of advice about leaving his keys in the car and the practicalities of chasing a Ferrari around a housing estate in a Fiesta panda car.
By his own admission, he wouldn't last 5 minutes these days.
I've heard plenty of tales and was even occasionally used for surveillance cover when I was young!
One of the more amusing ones was he caught a well to do married man getting up to no good with a street prostitute in his flash car. My Dad told him he wasn't going to arrest him, but he or another officer would attend his home address the following day to "take a statement". The guy pleaded with him to arrest him instead because he didn't want his wife to find out. My Dad arranged for colleagues to drive a panda car past his house every couple of hours to wind him up - apparently he spent the whole day outside washing his car and tending his front garden so the Police wouldn't knock on his door. My Dad went round when he came on shift later and the guy offered him £100 to go away, so he marched up to the door which the wife answered. The guy was absolutely bricking it. He said "Please tell your husband not to attempt to bribe Police Officers in future" to which she replied "What has he done". After a long pause, he just said "motoring offence". He told guy as he was leaving that if he caught him at it again he'd just pop straight round and have a word with his wife!
He once "stole" a Ferrari that the owner had left the keys in - he moved it round the corner and waited for the owner to notice it had gone then gave him words of advice about leaving his keys in the car and the practicalities of chasing a Ferrari around a housing estate in a Fiesta panda car.
By his own admission, he wouldn't last 5 minutes these days.
I remember several of my school class mates getting into scrapes with the law and ending up in Detention Centre or with a record for stuff you'd likely not even go to court for now. Being rude or touching an officer would result in you being face down in the back of a van whereas now nothing would happen from what you see on TV.
Man of Honour
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60s and very early 70s was the best, I got smacked around the head many a time by a Copper.
I joined the Police in 86 and experienced much of the 'old school' mentality, from summary justice to drinking on duty. It sure was a different world then. Definitely not better just different. Many of the older guys I worked with were ex military and made their own rules. I was regularly assaulted and verbally abused. Sometimes the criminals joined in......
Yea, my father was ex military (but didn't drink, strangely). He joined the Police in the 50's and most of the Policemen who showed him the ropes were older ex military blokes who had fought through the war.
I can relate to all of that. It was still an era when young officers were treated appallingly by the long servers, and some of the treatment dished out to WPC’s had to be seen to be believed. It wasn’t just the “make the tea, love” type of attitude but I saw some terrible behaviour. Probationers - male and female - had it tough.
When and why did it change?
It was a gradual changing of attitudes during the 90's and into the 2000's. There was no one reason just a change in culture over time. A statement you would hear frequently from the people who had been in a while was "The jobs ******", meaning that the change in attitude and culture had negatively impacted their ability to do the job. More often than not this was increased accountability and less freedom to do the job as they saw fit. In the early days there was an attitude that meant you did what you had to do to get the job done, which meant things were not necessarily done by the rules. This generally meant bad people were locked up.
Treatment of staff improved in line with the culture change with less bullying. The negative changes were a dramatic decrease in the number of officers. When I started in 86 you would have up to 20 officers at a night shift muster. This was for an average town. You always knew you had backup and plenty of it. Especially as at that time the majority of the officers were big burly blokes, who really did knew how to handle themselves. I worked the same place around 2010 and one night there was myself and two female officers covering the town. That night was an exception but there were never more than 8 of us during that time. This impacts your willingness to get into situations quickly. Going back to the late 80's I was young and daft so that had something to do with it. However, I also knew I was not going to ultimately lose any fight I had.