Poor landscaping work - garden resembles a swamp

Adam

Adam

Adam

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Hoping I can get some advice regarding some work I had done on my garden. It was quite significant work requiring tonnes and tonnes of earth being removed (some 6-8 tipper loads) to flatten the garden as previously it was on a slope making it difficult to do anything with it.
Essentially my garden becomes a swamp after any kind of rainfall. There doesn't seem to be adequate drainage to move the water away. I live in an area with clay (South East) which I believe to be contributing to the problem.

Images: https://imgur.com/a/FERCpMZ

Here are the main issues:
  1. Water cannot drain away from the patio as there is nowhere for water to go
  2. The grass is completely flooded as there is nowhere for the water to drain away
  3. There is a dip in the patio where the water pools even if there hasn't been substantial rain
As you can see the water exceeds 20mm in places and that was after me spending 30 minutes moving the water into the aco drain down the side of the house. I've had to buy 2x giant squeegees to move the water each time it rains as a broom didn't cut it. I'm worried this is causing damage to the house and introducing damp. The work looks awful as it appears to be about 10 years old because of the water. Some of the grouting etc has come away, the whole thing is a mess.

As for the company that did it, it's a small local firm who was recommended to us by a friend. It started with him not being able to do enough to help us but I found he was constantly harassing me for money throughout. I've now paid all of the cash which came to around £15k. I paid the last chunk as they came back and tried to rectify the problem a month ago but it wasn't enough. They did this by putting a drain under the grass covered with a semi-permable membrane so water can get in but soil cannot. It is moving water away to the drain but not at the rate needed to prevent flooding.

He came back 3 weeks ago and promised he would come back to rectify it by installing more aco drains. We haven't heard back from him, he blanked my wife the other day and also ignored my request to drop by after he finished work as he is working in the next street at the moment. He said that job had 1 week left, possibly 1 and a half weeks then he would rectify it. That was 3 weeks ago.

I'm running out of patience and have lost trust in him but what can I do? The original quote states "install new drainage around the property" but that wasn't done apart from down the side. That clearly isn't sufficient. We have a receipt of the overall cash payment and I have the messages I have sent/received from him. I've tried to keep everything in writing the best I can.

We are at the stage where I think he has had ample opportunity to fix the issue but he doesn't seem interested or taking it seriously. I'm at the point where I feel I need to get someone else in to rectify the work but obviously don't want to be out of pocket.
 
A couple of intial thoughts. There doesn't look to be any/enough fall looking at the blocks against the brickwork. Also I doubt they are below DPC by enough. If they have put the slabs down correctly, slurry on the back, you are n't getting them back up without many breakages.
 
How did you pay? Looks like you need a letter before action /intent to get it redone by elsewhere identifying you will take the case to small claims


Fundamentally looks like
1.there is little to no fall
2. There is insufficient capacity in the drains / they haven't been connected properly.
3. These fixed paving blocks should be a minimum of 150mm below damp proof course, but ideally more. I believe most put shingle /similar against the house as an extra prevention measure.

A shame as it otherwise looks nice, but needs sorted or it will wreck your house.

I believe @kindai did something similar to pursue an issue with a driveway so may be able to advise.
 
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ChrisD. said:
Jesus. Did they not put in any soakaways or a French ditch anywhere?
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They put a soakaway in the middle of the grass. When we first told him about the flooding he pulled back the grass by the patio, installed a 2" drain (if that) with holes in covered with a semi-permable membrane (weed fabric or similar) and connected that to the drain. That is the only drainage we have other than the aco down the side.
Lean said:
A couple of intial thoughts. There doesn't look to be any/enough fall looking at the blocks against the brickwork. Also I doubt they are below DPC by enough. If they have put the slabs down correctly, slurry on the back, you are n't getting them back up without many breakages.
Click to expand...
He told me there is a fall to angle it towards the grass. When it rains heavily the water backs up on to the patio. However there is an area where the water pools which we can prove by a picture we took during the freezing weather.

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I have been out twice today moving the water in to the aco so that's 45 mins I'll never get back. I completely cleared the water the 2nd time and about an hour later, with no further rain, the patio is flooded as the water is coming off the grass back on to the patio.

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Buffman said:
How did you pay? Looks like you need a letter before action /intent to get it redone by elsewhere identifying you will take the case to small claims


Fundamentally looks like
1.there is little to no fall
2. There is insufficient capacity in the drains / they haven't been connected properly.
3. These fixed paving blocks should be a minimum of 150mm below damp proof course, but ideally more. I believe most put shingle /similar against the house as an extra prevention measure.

A shame as it otherwise looks nice, but needs sorted or it will wreck your house.

I believe @kindai did something similar to pursue an issue with a driveway so may be able to advise.
Click to expand...
I paid cash, unfortunately. We have sought a 2nd and 3rd opinion today and both pretty much said what you have.

As I mentioned above, other than the remedial work they did to connect in to the drain there is no other drainage.

The damp proof course point is interesting. They didn't go down further than what was already there before. Hopefully that's clear from these 2 pictures I found which shows that.

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Yeah if you paid cash unfortunately I think you're buggered (what's to stop them saying you didn't pay?) . Paying in cash only really benefits the person undertaking the work.

Shame as unfortunately online has a temptation to belittle the person that "paid cheap paid twice" but youve paid good money and unfortunately got a sub par job.

Have you put a level (needs to be 1.8m plus) or a couple levels to get an actual indication of fall? Probably worth doing. Perhaps could look at something on the grass side if so
 
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Re the DPC

Part of my patio is slightly "above" the recommended DPC level. This isn't necessarily an issue. The guidance changed over time and when my previous patio was put in decades ago, it was within the accepted levels at that time and had no issues. When I had my new patio put in place, the landscaper raised this as a point of note, and made sure there was adequate drainage (drainage channel, draining to mains waste water) all around. I have not had any issues. The patio couldn't be lowered further, as the drainage pipes and main sewer system under the patio were too close to the surface - this is probably down to the building practices when the house was built (late 60s). The fall on my patio goes towards the house, into the drainage channel, and it looks pretty much dry not long after the rain stops.

See this page - https://www.pavingexpert.com/dpc01#bending-the-rules

However, that's not to say that your patio shouldn't have been laid in accordance with the guidance if possible, and you certainly should have been made aware of the issue. The old patio and subbase should have been dug out entirely anyway, and I imagine they used a digger, so it wouldn't have been that much extra work to go down another few inches. Just because the old patio was at a certain level, it doesn't mean the new one should be the same.

I think you have 2 issues;

•The fall on the patio isn't sufficient, or isn't consistent, and its not directed towards appropriate drainage. Based on the amount of standing water, it appears to be running towards the grass, though you'd need to check with a level to confirm this. This could be OK if the grass had appropriate drainage.
•The grass doesn't have appropriate drainage, or the ground is compacted/clay. It would probably benefit from some french drains. The drainage from both the grass and patio needs to be dealt with into the sewerage system, or an appropriate soakaway.

I don't see any proper resolution to this without a lot of work.

If water is pooling on the patio itself, I don't see any way to improve it except relaying the slabs with an appropriate fall and no dips. If you're lifting the slabs, you may as well add drainage all around the house, which will take care of the DPC "issue". You'd only need to lift the slabs and the top of the subbase, enough to correct the levels, assuming the rest is appropriate and compacted etc. I say "only", but I imagine you'll struggle to lift the slabs without damaging them and it's still a big job.

Grass drainage - you can add french drains to the grass yourself fairly easily if you're prepared to do some digging. The issue is getting rid of the water. If you're leaving the patio, you can potentially put a soakaway crate under the grass. If you're digging the patio up, I'd link these to the rainwater drains. Or the issue may be cause by the patio runoff, but personally I'd hedge my bets and put some drains in for peace of mind. This again, still a relatively big job you shouldn't have to do, which would have been fairly straightforward for the landscapers to sort out at the time. It's much more work to do in retrospect.

I think i'd be contacting the landscapers and if they're no help, I'd be contacting trading standards and citizens advice.
 
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My neighbour is a county court judge. When I see her I’ll have a chat about where you stand because you paid all in cash.

Did you have a written quote for the work?
 
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jellybeard999 said:
Re the DPC

Part of my patio is slightly "above" the recommended DPC level. This isn't necessarily an issue. The guidance changed over time and when my previous patio was put in decades ago, it was within the accepted levels at that time and had no issues. When I had my new patio put in place, the landscaper raised this as a point of note, and made sure there was adequate drainage (drainage channel, draining to mains waste water) all around. I have not had any issues. The patio couldn't be lowered further, as the drainage pipes and main sewer system under the patio were too close to the surface - this is probably down to the building practices when the house was built (late 60s). The fall on my patio goes towards the house, into the drainage channel, and it looks pretty much dry not long after the rain stops.

See this page - https://www.pavingexpert.com/dpc01#bending-the-rules

However, that's not to say that your patio shouldn't have been laid in accordance with the guidance if possible, and you certainly should have been made aware of the issue. The old patio and subbase should have been dug out entirely anyway, and I imagine they used a digger, so it wouldn't have been that much extra work to go down another few inches. Just because the old patio was at a certain level, it doesn't mean the new one should be the same.

I think you have 2 issues;

•The fall on the patio isn't sufficient, or isn't consistent, and its not directed towards appropriate drainage. Based on the amount of standing water, it appears to be running towards the grass, though you'd need to check with a level to confirm this. This could be OK if the grass had appropriate drainage.
•The grass doesn't have appropriate drainage, or the ground is compacted/clay. It would probably benefit from some french drains. The drainage from both the grass and patio needs to be dealt with into the sewerage system, or an appropriate soakaway.

I don't see any proper resolution to this without a lot of work.

If water is pooling on the patio itself, I don't see any way to improve it except relaying the slabs with an appropriate fall and no dips. If you're lifting the slabs, you may as well add drainage all around the house, which will take care of the DPC "issue". You'd only need to lift the slabs and the top of the subbase, enough to correct the levels, assuming the rest is appropriate and compacted etc. I say "only", but I imagine you'll struggle to lift the slabs without damaging them and it's still a big job.

Grass drainage - you can add french drains to the grass yourself fairly easily if you're prepared to do some digging. The issue is getting rid of the water. If you're leaving the patio, you can potentially put a soakaway crate under the grass. If you're digging the patio up, I'd link these to the rainwater drains. Or the issue may be cause by the patio runoff, but personally I'd hedge my bets and put some drains in for peace of mind. This again, still a relatively big job you shouldn't have to do, which would have been fairly straightforward for the landscapers to sort out at the time. It's much more work to do in retrospect.

I think i'd be contacting the landscapers and if they're no help, I'd be contacting trading standards and citizens advice.
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This is great stuff, thanks so much. I’m not strong enough to be lifting these tiles etc myself so I’d have to get someone else in. I think my wife and I are leaning towards getting someone else in rather than going back to the original guy. We had a 2nd and 3rd opinion today from friends/friends of friends in the building trade and both said the work is well below standard. There is no real incentive for the guy to rip things up and start again at this stage as he has been paid. It’s only his reputation and avoiding the hassle of having to defend himself if it went to court that would make him spend £xk putting it right.
RockLobster said:
My neighbour is a county court judge. When I see her I’ll have a chat about where you stand because you paid all in cash.

Did you have a written quote for the work?
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So I have a written quote plus a receipt confirming how much we paid at the end of the job. Although we paid cash there is no doubt I paid him and he did the work. I also have lots of text messages from him asking for money at short notice along with various sob stories which I naively fell for. It would be great to hear her opinion as this seems the most likely outcome. I will have to send a letter of intent as well, I just have to sit down and figure out exactly what I’m asking him for.
 
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Pretty much as mostly written above with the drainage and it may be possible with a thin blade to cut out the low slabs along the grout lines, raise them, raise the ground slightly and reseat, without causing too much damage.
 
RockLobster said:
Before you get anyone in I think you may have to give him the opportunity to fix it. That’s if you go down the court route.
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I think I could argue that he has had the chance to fix it on a couple of occasions - 1) when he installed the drainage at the front and 2) he came over 3 weeks ago and I haven't heard from him since. The estimate he gave to finish the job he was working on was one to one and a half weeks. I have also lost faith in his ability to do the job properly as I can see how many corners he has cut.
 
We had similar work done to our garden this year. The 150mm below damp was mentioned but I chose to ignore it. We replaced an existing 15+ year patio that had been at the same level without causing issue.

For some safety we did run a drain across the back side of the house.

We’ve had some monsoon rain and no issues due to the run on the slabs.

I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. It must be so gutting. I really hope you get it sorted.
 
aVdub said:
Pretty much as mostly written above with the drainage and it may be possible with a thin blade to cut out the low slabs along the grout lines, raise them, raise the ground slightly and reseat, without causing too much damage.
Click to expand...
If the tiles were laid properly, ie. using slurry and a wet mix, it will be next to impossible to just lift a slab without breaking it, or taking the full mortar bed with the tile.

The contractor messed up as said above.

No where near enough fall to take the water.
If his plan was to drain the patio into the grass, he should have made sure that the grass area could take the water from the patio, a soakaway and a 100mm Perforated Land Drainage Pipe along the edge of the patio should have done it.
Also going by the grass, he should have also laid rows of the 100mm Perforated Land Drainage Pipe surrounded by shingle under any top soil before turfing the area to help the grass drain, atm it looks like a quagmire.

Re. the levels below DPC, if its about the same as the old level i wouldn't worry about it

Feel sorry for op, if you have any receipts etc... hold onto them.
Right a formal letter to the contractor, stating all the problems that you need fixing, and give him 21 days notice, that if the work is not rectified to your satisfaction you will begin court proceedings against him.
Send the letter special delivery so you get a signature and tracking to prove someone signed for it.
Or email him if you can.

​

 
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j.col said:
If the tiles were laid properly, ie. using slurry and a wet mix, it will be next to impossible to just lift a slab without breaking it, or taking the full mortar bed with the tile.

The contractor messed up as said above.

No where near enough fall to take the water.
If his plan was to drain the patio into the grass, he should have made sure that the grass area could take the water from the patio, a soakaway and a 100mm Perforated Land Drainage Pipe along the edge of the patio should have done it.
Also going by the grass, he should have also laid rows of the 100mm Perforated Land Drainage Pipe surrounded by shingle under any top soil before turfing the area to help the grass drain, atm it looks like a quagmire.

Re. the levels below DPC, if its about the same as the old level i wouldn't worry about it

Feel sorry for op, if you have any receipts etc... hold onto them.
Right a formal letter to the contractor, stating all the problems that you need fixing, and give him 21 days notice, that if the work is not rectified to your satisfaction you will begin court proceedings against him.
Send the letter special delivery so you get a signature and tracking to prove someone signed for it.
Or email him if you can.

​

Click to expand...
Great advice thanks so much. How important do you think it is to allow him the opportunity to come back and put it right (again)? I can’t see him being willing to dig everything up to start again whereas that would be my expectation if someone else was to take on the remedial work.
 
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