Poor landscaping work - garden resembles a swamp

[Adam]

Hoping I can get some advice regarding some work I had done on my garden. It was quite significant work requiring tonnes and tonnes of earth being removed (some 6-8 tipper loads) to flatten the garden as previously it was on a slope making it difficult to do anything with it.
Essentially my garden becomes a swamp after any kind of rainfall. There doesn't seem to be adequate drainage to move the water away. I live in an area with clay (South East) which I believe to be contributing to the problem.

Images: https://imgur.com/a/FERCpMZ

Here are the main issues:

1. Water cannot drain away from the patio as there is nowhere for water to go
2. The grass is completely flooded as there is nowhere for the water to drain away
3. There is a dip in the patio where the water pools even if there hasn't been substantial rain

As you can see the water exceeds 20mm in places and that was after me spending 30 minutes moving the water into the aco drain down the side of the house. I've had to buy 2x giant squeegees to move the water each time it rains as a broom didn't cut it. I'm worried this is causing damage to the house and introducing damp. The work looks awful as it appears to be about 10 years old because of the water. Some of the grouting etc has come away, the whole thing is a mess.

As for the company that did it, it's a small local firm who was recommended to us by a friend. It started with him not being able to do enough to help us but I found he was constantly harassing me for money throughout. I've now paid all of the cash which came to around £15k. I paid the last chunk as they came back and tried to rectify the problem a month ago but it wasn't enough. They did this by putting a drain under the grass covered with a semi-permable membrane so water can get in but soil cannot. It is moving water away to the drain but not at the rate needed to prevent flooding.

He came back 3 weeks ago and promised he would come back to rectify it by installing more aco drains. We haven't heard back from him, he blanked my wife the other day and also ignored my request to drop by after he finished work as he is working in the next street at the moment. He said that job had 1 week left, possibly 1 and a half weeks then he would rectify it. That was 3 weeks ago.

I'm running out of patience and have lost trust in him but what can I do? The original quote states "install new drainage around the property" but that wasn't done apart from down the side. That clearly isn't sufficient. We have a receipt of the overall cash payment and I have the messages I have sent/received from him. I've tried to keep everything in writing the best I can.

We are at the stage where I think he has had ample opportunity to fix the issue but he doesn't seem interested or taking it seriously. I'm at the point where I feel I need to get someone else in to rectify the work but obviously don't want to be out of pocket.

 

[Adam]

Jesus. Did they not put in any soakaways or a French ditch anywhere?

They put a soakaway in the middle of the grass. When we first told him about the flooding he pulled back the grass by the patio, installed a 2" drain (if that) with holes in covered with a semi-permable membrane (weed fabric or similar) and connected that to the drain. That is the only drainage we have other than the aco down the side.

A couple of intial thoughts. There doesn't look to be any/enough fall looking at the blocks against the brickwork. Also I doubt they are below DPC by enough. If they have put the slabs down correctly, slurry on the back, you are n't getting them back up without many breakages.

He told me there is a fall to angle it towards the grass. When it rains heavily the water backs up on to the patio. However there is an area where the water pools which we can prove by a picture we took during the freezing weather.

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I have been out twice today moving the water in to the aco so that's 45 mins I'll never get back. I completely cleared the water the 2nd time and about an hour later, with no further rain, the patio is flooded as the water is coming off the grass back on to the patio.

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How did you pay? Looks like you need a letter before action /intent to get it redone by elsewhere identifying you will take the case to small claims


Fundamentally looks like
1.there is little to no fall
2. There is insufficient capacity in the drains / they haven't been connected properly.
3. These fixed paving blocks should be a minimum of 150mm below damp proof course, but ideally more. I believe most put shingle /similar against the house as an extra prevention measure.

A shame as it otherwise looks nice, but needs sorted or it will wreck your house.

I believe @kindai did something similar to pursue an issue with a driveway so may be able to advise.

I paid cash, unfortunately. We have sought a 2nd and 3rd opinion today and both pretty much said what you have.

As I mentioned above, other than the remedial work they did to connect in to the drain there is no other drainage.

The damp proof course point is interesting. They didn't go down further than what was already there before. Hopefully that's clear from these 2 pictures I found which shows that.

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[Adam]

Re the DPC

Part of my patio is slightly "above" the recommended DPC level. This isn't necessarily an issue. The guidance changed over time and when my previous patio was put in decades ago, it was within the accepted levels at that time and had no issues. When I had my new patio put in place, the landscaper raised this as a point of note, and made sure there was adequate drainage (drainage channel, draining to mains waste water) all around. I have not had any issues. The patio couldn't be lowered further, as the drainage pipes and main sewer system under the patio were too close to the surface - this is probably down to the building practices when the house was built (late 60s). The fall on my patio goes towards the house, into the drainage channel, and it looks pretty much dry not long after the rain stops.

See this page - https://www.pavingexpert.com/dpc01#bending-the-rules

However, that's not to say that your patio shouldn't have been laid in accordance with the guidance if possible, and you certainly should have been made aware of the issue. The old patio and subbase should have been dug out entirely anyway, and I imagine they used a digger, so it wouldn't have been that much extra work to go down another few inches. Just because the old patio was at a certain level, it doesn't mean the new one should be the same.

I think you have 2 issues;

•The fall on the patio isn't sufficient, or isn't consistent, and its not directed towards appropriate drainage. Based on the amount of standing water, it appears to be running towards the grass, though you'd need to check with a level to confirm this. This could be OK if the grass had appropriate drainage.
•The grass doesn't have appropriate drainage, or the ground is compacted/clay. It would probably benefit from some french drains. The drainage from both the grass and patio needs to be dealt with into the sewerage system, or an appropriate soakaway.

I don't see any proper resolution to this without a lot of work.

If water is pooling on the patio itself, I don't see any way to improve it except relaying the slabs with an appropriate fall and no dips. If you're lifting the slabs, you may as well add drainage all around the house, which will take care of the DPC "issue". You'd only need to lift the slabs and the top of the subbase, enough to correct the levels, assuming the rest is appropriate and compacted etc. I say "only", but I imagine you'll struggle to lift the slabs without damaging them and it's still a big job.

Grass drainage - you can add french drains to the grass yourself fairly easily if you're prepared to do some digging. The issue is getting rid of the water. If you're leaving the patio, you can potentially put a soakaway crate under the grass. If you're digging the patio up, I'd link these to the rainwater drains. Or the issue may be cause by the patio runoff, but personally I'd hedge my bets and put some drains in for peace of mind. This again, still a relatively big job you shouldn't have to do, which would have been fairly straightforward for the landscapers to sort out at the time. It's much more work to do in retrospect.

I think i'd be contacting the landscapers and if they're no help, I'd be contacting trading standards and citizens advice.

This is great stuff, thanks so much. I’m not strong enough to be lifting these tiles etc myself so I’d have to get someone else in. I think my wife and I are leaning towards getting someone else in rather than going back to the original guy. We had a 2nd and 3rd opinion today from friends/friends of friends in the building trade and both said the work is well below standard. There is no real incentive for the guy to rip things up and start again at this stage as he has been paid. It’s only his reputation and avoiding the hassle of having to defend himself if it went to court that would make him spend £xk putting it right.

My neighbour is a county court judge. When I see her I’ll have a chat about where you stand because you paid all in cash.

Did you have a written quote for the work?

So I have a written quote plus a receipt confirming how much we paid at the end of the job. Although we paid cash there is no doubt I paid him and he did the work. I also have lots of text messages from him asking for money at short notice along with various sob stories which I naively fell for. It would be great to hear her opinion as this seems the most likely outcome. I will have to send a letter of intent as well, I just have to sit down and figure out exactly what I’m asking him for.

 

[Adam]

Before you get anyone in I think you may have to give him the opportunity to fix it. That’s if you go down the court route.

I think I could argue that he has had the chance to fix it on a couple of occasions - 1) when he installed the drainage at the front and 2) he came over 3 weeks ago and I haven't heard from him since. The estimate he gave to finish the job he was working on was one to one and a half weeks. I have also lost faith in his ability to do the job properly as I can see how many corners he has cut.

 

[Adam]

If the tiles were laid properly, ie. using slurry and a wet mix, it will be next to impossible to just lift a slab without breaking it, or taking the full mortar bed with the tile.

The contractor messed up as said above.

No where near enough fall to take the water.
If his plan was to drain the patio into the grass, he should have made sure that the grass area could take the water from the patio, a soakaway and a 100mm Perforated Land Drainage Pipe along the edge of the patio should have done it.
Also going by the grass, he should have also laid rows of the 100mm Perforated Land Drainage Pipe surrounded by shingle under any top soil before turfing the area to help the grass drain, atm it looks like a quagmire.

Re. the levels below DPC, if its about the same as the old level i wouldn't worry about it

Feel sorry for op, if you have any receipts etc... hold onto them.
Right a formal letter to the contractor, stating all the problems that you need fixing, and give him 21 days notice, that if the work is not rectified to your satisfaction you will begin court proceedings against him.
Send the letter special delivery so you get a signature and tracking to prove someone signed for it.
Or email him if you can.

​

Great advice thanks so much. How important do you think it is to allow him the opportunity to come back and put it right (again)? I can’t see him being willing to dig everything up to start again whereas that would be my expectation if someone else was to take on the remedial work.

 

[Adam]

I think its very important to be fair.
If it goes to court he will try and say that you never gave him a chance to fix it.
Make sure any further correspondence is by letter or email, so you have a paper trail to prove you have given him every chance to fix the problems before taking him to court.
Write every letter with the thought that a judge may one day be reading it.

If you end up having to rip everything up and start again, then he could be liable to cover your expenses from employing a different contractor to do the job the way it should have been done.

Also it may be worth doing some research on him, is he a sole trader, ltd company etc... is he registered at companies house?
Try and find out as much info as you can about him, as if it goes to court and you win he may just try and fold the business and start up again in a different name.

edit, have a read of this thread https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/tell-me-about-new-driveways.18922323/page-2

Ok thank you, perhaps I’ll reassess this then based on your advice as I want to do everything by the book. It will end in confrontation but I’m ready for that.

 

[Adam]

Here's the original quote:



Note that the scope of the work changed once the digger came in and some of the earth had been excavated. The original plan was to have a wall across the garden separating the garden on 2 levels but it became clear this would be about 3ft high due to the slope. I was given the option to have the garden flattened for an extra £4k which we agreed upon £3500 (£14,750 total). So rather than a wall running across the garden we paid the extra for the earth to be removed (3-4 more grab lorries, an extra couple of days hire for the digger, more materials for the wall etc).

Nonetheless, you can see "new drainage around the property" wasn't fulfilled nor was any thought given to the drainage.

 

[Adam]

What was on the original quote/agreement??- that's the important starting point. Was there any agreement for drainage - if so - what was the drainage/specification?

Start at the beginning - work from there.

As @danlightbulb says - If there was no solid agreement for drainage in the quote - you might struggle to get anywhere. What was written down at the start and agreed upon??

I know it's a mute point now - but why make payment/final payment when your still not happy with the final job? I never understand people that pay up the full balance but are not happy with the job. No matter how much "hassle" the trades person gives you, don't pay until your completely happy with the job.

Fair point about the payment and I was naive. I was constantly being harrassed for money every other day. We had a good relationship and I could see the work was progressing so thought it was only fair I paid him, however I paid him too much and didn't have a significant balance outstanding.

I'm annoyed at myself but equally annoyed at him considering we gave him money frequently when he asked for it, I went out of my way numerous times to help him but now we need him I feel like we are on our own.

 

[Adam]

A small update: I created a letter before action (14 pages!) which was delivered on 31st December and within an hour of him receiving it he text to say he will come over next week to discuss it. It's unclear how that will play out but I hope he thought "oh ****" when he opened the letter. Even if I say so myself I think I did a good job of outlining the problems, our expectations and the consequences if he doesn't meet those deadlines (based on the helpful information: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/t...sembles-a-swamp.18964632/page-2#post-36104898)

Here are my expectations:

Based upon our research and advice from 2 other independent contractors, our expectation is that both the patio and grass would need to be re-laid to rectify the critical defects described below by with suitable drainage installed to solve the flooding issues. This would be through the use of aco drainage around the entire property, connected to the drain for the patio, with the correct fall. For the grass, 100mm perforated land drainage pipes under a suitable amount of shingle should be installed in channels around the garden connected to the drain, along with new turf being laid throughout. Our expectation is that the medium severity items should also be solved but we are willing to overlook the low items should everything else be properly rectified.

I also put together a table with a detailed description of each fault, a severity for each item and images. These images were uploaded to a google photo album so he could see them in high resolution. I was also able to show the quotes, when we paid and the signed receipt.

I updated the gallery I originally shared in my opening post which shows some other defects that I referenced such as the patio being completely level around the area where water pools, very little (if any) water tricking out from the drainage they put in, the misaligned manhole cover and broken handles, broken resin, poor tiling and adhesive left on the tiles, LED lights hanging down (his suggestion originally!) etc: https://imgur.com/a/FERCpMZ

I'll provide a further update after I speak to him next.

 

[Adam]

Also another question if I may. Is there any valid reason why he wouldn't have grouted between the edging bricks?



This is consistent around the entire border. It looks to me that water could get between the tiles.

 

[Adam]

Did he do that granite/quartz wall around the garden as well? It looks great from a distance but that close up you posted above looks gash as ****!!

Yes he did it all. There are some gaps between tiles which I expected due to the shape of the tiles etc but that corner is awful. They did the last and I suspect they rushed it.

No/insufficient drainage did the job to too look good and disappear before the problems started to appear, cash in hand you say? Dear oh dear.

We only noticed the drainage issue once it rained. I wouldn’t say they disappeared as he has been back to his credit and is due back again tomorrow.

The finish is poor but the drainage situation is the main worry. Is the conservatory roof connected to your surface water drain or is it discharging direct into the earth? You may want to check the construction of the retaining walls (foundation, drainage and what blocks they used) The water pressure on the retaining walls will eventually lead to it failing if there is no drainage. If they are going to put a soakaway under the turf you are going to have to take into account you are draining the other gardens as you are the lowest point now. Also it would probably be too close to your conservatory.

Yes the drainage is our main concern but I expect everything to be sorted. It seems the soakaway needs to be connected to the drain with shingle over the top then other drainage channels around the rest of the garden.

 

[Adam]

Update: I'll focus on what happens next rather than the week of being let down trying to get him back Anyway, he came over today.

Without directly acknowledging or apologising for the inconvenience he has agreed to dig the patio and grass up to start again. He'll get another digger in to dig proper drainage channels etc for the turf and install land drainage pipes covered in shingle connected to the drain.

For the patio it will be completely redone (using the existing slabs) with the correct fall in to aco drains fully around the property again connected to the drain. The only thing i'm not sure about is that he suggested this time he'll reverse the fall and have it angled towards the house with aco catching the water which will flow away to the drain. I haven't done much research on the subject so interested to hear some thoughts on that.

I set him a deadline of the 17th but he cannot do it by then. Turns out he has started another job (!!) and cannot leave it this week but can on the 16th Jan. He anticipates the remedial work will take 6 days to complete.

I think my letter before action has got his attention plus I gave him quite a hard time today around the poor quality finish and grilled him on why the quality would be better the 2nd time around. Of course there were some excuses but I think he knows it wasn't good enough and is obviously frustrated he needs to put this job right before he can move on to a paying job.

He's assured me everything will be rectified so i'm not sure what other option I have really. I just want the job done that I paid for without the hassle of court action, him winding up the company and not paying etc. His reputation was very good before we started, he was recommended by a family friend and even the place we bought the tiles from said he buys loads from them and his work is decent. Let's hope he sticks to his word and the finish is better the 2nd time around.

 

[Adam]

It's a difficult one as the aim of my letter before action was to get his attention and make him take it seriously. He's agreed to put everything right at his expense so in that respect it's worked. Am I concerned about what happens the 2nd time around? Yes I am but he's made it clear that he'll get it right and do everything possible to make us happy. If I decided that I didn't want him to continue (which was an option) i'd have to pay out to get someone else in and hope I can claim the money back. His repuatation would also take a hit as he is always being recommended on the local facebook group so if I commented negatively I think it would really hurt him. If he can do the job properly this time then I think we both get what we want. I need to be able to let the dog out in the garden and let the kids play out there when the weather improves which is something they have never been able to do properly because of how dangerous the garden was before. I cannot do that today without sinking in to the turf.

Regarding the tiles, he has taken a few up at the front of the patio without damaging them to try and fix the issue previously. They also said the manhole cover will be replaced and the corner of the wall will be redone.

My wife and I plan to keep a much closer eye on the work and we'll try and anticipate any issues before they happen. We saw the lawn wasn't level when they were doing it but gave them the benefit of the doubt. We won't be doing that again and will say something at the time so we have learnt through this experience.

As for the slope, I believe it's always best to have it angled away from the house from what I have researched. In this case there will be aco drains all around the edge of the property to catch the water. I believe this will eliminate the need to have an aco between the lawn and patio as the drainage will be under the turf so that will look better too.

 

[Adam]

Is he going to build a soakaway or similar? You're not supposed to/its not allowed to have the surface water running out of your property. It is difficult for the council/water company to identify to be fair.

Also, is it not going to be an issue regardless on the turf that you've excavated 4 feet below all the bordering properties so effectively you are at the "low point"? I guess its a wait and see.

There is a soakaway in the middle which I would expect to be filled with water because the clay doesn't allow it to drain away. He hasn't said anything about connecting the soakaway to the drains. I anticipate he will use something like this to cover the entire area: https://www.easymerchant.co.uk/blog/choosing-a-herringbone-drainage-system/ The edges are especially but it's hard to tell if the soakaway is actually doing anything as all the turf is waterlogged and can't be walked on.

I don't know about the low point so yes we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Adam]

To be clear, the aco drains around the property and the drainage underneath the turf will both be directed to the drain where an existing downpipe from the guttering connects to. Would this be permissible? I'm not sure what the correct terminology is so hopefully that question is clear.

I have no reason to believe the soakaway will be connected to any of the drains but I will check.

 

[Adam]

The work started today. They hired a digger but had to abandon that idea as it just sunk in to the mud. This meant all the work had to be done by hand including the channels.

When they were lifting the turf it was just like when they laid it, not a single root had grown plus some of the underside looked mouldy.

I have my doubt if the channels are deep enough for the perforated land drainage pipes plus shingle. The relationship has certainly deteriorated so i'm finding it increasingly difficult communicating with him. There's an element of just having to trust that they do it properly the second time around and I was clear enough when he came over that I want it done properly. I'll try again tomorrow and try to find out more about his plans for the drainage.

 

[Adam]

Drainage - Land Drainage for Fields and Gardens

A basic guide to land drainage for gardens and fields

www.pavingexpert.com

Installing a land drain

Step-by-step case study guide to the installation of an interceptor land drain to a private garden

www.pavingexpert.com

I used 100mm perforated pipe + a good 300mm+ of gravel on top, with the trenches lined with a membrane, which was then wrapped over the top of the whole lot. Essentially, the pipes and gravel should be fully wrapped in membrane to allow the water in, but keep the soil out - see pics in the second link. Mine was just behind a retaining wall, so probably overkill, but I thought for the extra effort, it was worth it.

If he's planning to just put perforated pipe in the soil mud and then turf over the top, it'll be a waste of time.

Where are the pipes going to be draining to? It's a pointless exercise unless it's going to a soakaway or drain.

The land drains for the turf will be fed in to the existing aco drain down the side of the house which in turn connects to some kind of drain which the downpipe for the guttering is connected to.

He will then install aco around the rest of the property for the patio. Hope that makes sense!

 

[Adam]

They would better off leaving that for a few weeks, and returning later on - it's currently a bog with the frost/water etc. Looks like they've just scrapped the shovel along the ground to make some "lines".

Nothing in that preparation looks like it's ready for drains etc

He wanted to wait until the weather improved but I knew he had started another job so wanted him back asap. I suggested he gave me £3k back as a retainer and I’ll sign a contract to say I’ll pay him once it’s resolved (whenever that may be) but he didn’t like that idea I felt like my only chance to get him back was to set him the deadline in the letter before action.

I was also tired spending 20 mins moving the water whenever it rained, I’ve spent countless hours doing that in the last month.

I agree it’s an absolute mess though, I just want it all done now.

 

[Adam]

How come its so wet, is everything just slopping so the lowest parts are where the grass meets the patio? though the whole lawn looks a swamp.

Where is next doors downpipe going, can see it behind fence on house, have they got some sort of soak away thats finding its way into your garden.

It rained very heavily on Sunday night, I was out there with my giant squeegee at 6.30am on Monday morning and it was the worst it had ever been with the water up to the air brick. Any more rain and it would have flooded in so I had to move it all asap. The only positive was being able to listen to a podcast while I was freezing in the pouring rain

There was no way to move any water from the turf so it must just have been sitting there when they rolled the turf back and then everything churned up when they walked on it. They were moving water out with jugs in to buckets fighting a losing battle really.

 

[Adam]

Spoke to him this morning to get more information on what he is doing with the drainage. He said he cannot use 100mm perforated land drainage as the fall to the drain wouldn't be sufficient due to the diameter of the pipe. His solution is to use downpipe with slits cut in it with shingle over the top. This is similar to the solution he tried at the front of the patio which failed. I asked him what the difference would be and he said the membrane couldn't release the water quick enough but shingle over the top would solve this problem. He has assured me this solution will work 100%.

I've googled and 1) you can get 60mm perforated land drainage and 2) it's cheaper than down pipe and you don't need to cut slats in it yourself. I really can't work out why he would be going down this route other than the fact that perhaps by using the downpipe he can control where the water enters and it will only come in via the top of the pipe and not leak out the bottom of the pipe?

I'm very worried about this. The relationship has broken down and it's very difficult to talk to him. They won't accept teas and coffees etc anymore and left yesterday without saying bye or telling us they were leaving. Minor but it gives a sense of the situation.

I'm in a situation where I'm trying to use the knowledge I have gained to make sure this is done properly but how can I tell a so called expert how to do his job. I have 0 experience when it comes to drainage, laying patios or turfing a garden. I feel like my only option is to let him get on with it, hope he saw I was serious when I sent him the letter and trust when it rains his solution is sufficient.