Porsche 996 Turbo - Any buying tips and what do people know about these?

[Gibbo]

Hi there

First of all don't worry guys, the Mustang is going nowhere yet, but I am beginning to think whats next and at the moment Porsche is favourite.

My main thoughts are how does the tiptronic and manual differ?
Also had does the tiptronic work, does it have paddles? Is it automatic? Is there a clutch? Are there manual modes etc. and how do they work etc?

How does performance differ between the manual and tiptronic?
Also what changes were there to the cars in the different years. At the moment I can afford a 2000/2001 model but I suspect in 6-12 months I will have money for upto a 2003 model too. What revision changes were there over the years?

Any must have options as well, as in when new what options were a must so then I know to try and get a car with those options?
I am aware of the X50 pack which I shall certainly be looking for as those give a claim 450BHP but those who tested cars with them see more like 480-500BHP.

What tuning options are there? With the tiptronic can the ECU be tuned for faster changes maybe?

I have also heard the tiptronic is a lot more reliable due to stronger tranny, clutches last much longer and they don't suffer from the problems some manuals have which is 2nd gear pop out which is a walk away thing or overrevs which are basically when the engine has been overeved and as such recorded by the ECU.

Sorry for so many questions, but if anyone knows the answers it would helpful. At the moment I've seen 996 Turbo as cheap as 38k in the UK with real nice examples between 42-46k. What most annoying though is that in America you can get a 2003 model with X50 pack and sub 30,000 miles for £30,000. How come even the yanks get better pricing on a car made in the EU?

Also any good Porsche tuners in the UK, or places where after market items such as CAI, exhaust and remaps can be purchased etc?

P.S. Other contenders will be Dodge Challenger if it comes out soon enough or maybe a Corvette Z06.

 

[Gibbo]

Enjoy a bit of a 4WD action earlier then?

There is no doubt that 4WD is truly fantastic, especially in the current conditions. Only bit I did not like is when you realised that 4WD is useless when all four wheels loose grip.

Though saying that went out in the BMW tonight, drove everywhere with my foot to the floor, its RWD, but I guess the power difference and its less responsive throttle and huge fat profile tyres make it a bit more suitable, plus it go sideways nice too.

Just found these pics, which make me drool:-

I like that, except from the wheels, I preferre the standard Turbo wheels or maybe something different.
Think I definetely preferre back or the dark grey for the colour.

 

[Gibbo]

Where do you get all the money from! I'd love to be in the same position

You don't live at home do you?

Hi there

Yup do live at home, but my monthly outgoings are minimal so a mortgage I could afford and still keep the Mustang and BMW whilst having a nice house. Just for the moment I don't really get that urge to get my own pad and at times I am not at home so much. Plus living at home has huge benefits and it means I save a lot more money and quicker.

 

[Gibbo]

Even I wouldn't recommend the new Dodge Challenger over a 996 Turbo, despite being an American car fanboy. The Z06 on the other hand....if we're talking about the C6 'vette, then the Z06 would be very interesting indeed. The 996 is probably better day-to-day, and probably easier to drive in poor conditions thanks to the 4WD.

But the Z06 has a 7 litre engine.









Ain't no replacement for displacement!

Hi m8

Its basically a case of my brain says Porsche 996 Turbo. Prices are dropping like a stone making them a much better buy due to the newer 997 version. Its 4WD so it can utilise all its power and it will do so even in poor weather conditions. Plus if the tiptronic is good makes it even better.
Only downsides at the moments I can think of are possibly running cost as in servicing as I am sure Porsche are not cheap. My other worry is turbo lag!

My heart says go for another American muscle car, unbeatable power and responsivness on the engine and cheap running cost and a car easily serviced and modded by myself. Plus I love the in your face and retro looks of the muscle cars.

 

[Gibbo]

My dad has a 996 carrera 2, service costs on his he says are the same as his BMW 330ci, obviously the turbo model will be more. Tyres are around £200 each and a new set of pads all round cost him £250 inc fitting. Now parts like the clutch or gearbox I should imagine are eye wateringly expensive however routine maintance will be similar to a M3 or M5.

Hi there

Thanks m8, sounds great. The Mustang tyres are £250 per corner and thats trade. Servicing cost seem very good then in that case, anybody know what the service interval is on the Turbo? When it comes it stuff like pads that something I can get a lot cheaper. I've heard the gearbox and clutch on the manuak cars can be a problem, hence why I am thinking tiptronic version for better reliability.

 

[Gibbo]

To be fair, the people saying that buying houses is boring are people who live in dodgy area's. Not suprised, i wouldnt want a house in stoke either

On topic, the 996 is a gorgeous car. And as much as i like american muscle, i would take the porsche every time. A Porsche 996 Turbo X50 or not is something a lot of people go their entire lives wanting, you'd be mad not go for that if you are in the position to afford to buy and maintain one.

HI there

I don't live in Stoke at the moment and I certainly would not buy a house in Stoke either. If I was to buy a house now it would be Congleton or Alsager area but at the moment I have no need too. When I go out clubbin/drinkin its always away from home anyway and as such taking women back has never been an issue, but its always easier to just go back theirs.

Plus my parents are fantastic, I get on great with them and they don't have issues with mates or girls coming round. Then there is the benefits are not having to do my own ironing, muhahaha.
Plus I do get the place to myself for long stints when my parents decide to go off holidaying for weeks on end.

Anyway there is more talk about houses in this thread than cars. At the moment I have no plans to get a house, if that changes in the future then so be it but whatever car I own at that time I shall be keeping as ownership of the Mustang soaks very little of my income up. My next car will not soak any more up either as I shall sell the Mustang and then put 15-20k of savings towards my next purchase. Then that way if I do decide to get a house I can keep whatever car I have.

I hope thats the house talk done with now, when I need advice on a mortgage I shall post in GD or maybe here considering the response.

Agreed I really want an X50, but whatever I get I shall play with it anywhere as its something I just cannot resist to do. This is not something I am doing now I just like to plan in advance.

 

[Gibbo]

I have made 100% profit on my investment in stoke if not more. I made the right decision at the right time.

Back to the cars though. You know how I feel about the mustang I will be very sad to see it go whenever you make the choice it's just one of the nicest cars I have seen and very unique and very very god damn quick.

I really like the porka's but It just does not say "gibbo" to me. Great car, great spec and excellent value for money. However it is not going to turn heads like the Mustang and probably won't be as quick. You don't track or race and i think that you will miss the head turning factor of the mustang. Running costs are not really relevant as you love cars and they are you number one hobby, it is not going to make a blind bit of difference if tyres cost £200 or £250 or even what the servicing costs or intervals are.

If your head is in a 911 turbo go for it. But I think your heart is thinking otherwise.

HI m8

The Mustang is a very unique car. My thoughts for wanting a Porsche is based on the fact I like the looks, though I know there not head turning but to me I like them and I am buying the car for myself and not what other people may think or how many heads it might turn. The big bonus of the Porsche is what it can do, its a true A-B weapon its 4WD and handling abilities make it a great car for all year round use and one where you can use the power. So now your probably thinking well why not get an EVO FQ340 and modify it or a Subaru Type 25, well I've been considering those too, just they don't really do it for me in the looks department and I suspect a Porka Turbo is a damn site quicker and a much nicer place to be.

Running cost well I am fine with tyres costing £250 corner, never had an issue with that as thats what the Mustang cost, so that don't bother me.
Would just be nice to know service intervals, when major services are and how much they cost. I have money but I don't like wasting it as I am always on the look out for the best deal and you know that m8.

As much as I love the Mustang it can get annoying at times when I can't even use a 1/3 of its power in poor road conditions due to the sheer torque at such low rpm/speeds. Many people really like the idea of a car that you can break the rear-end loose at will and yes it is fun but at times I wish I had a 4WD switch for when roads are bad but I still want to drive quick.

For me the Porsche offers a major improvement over the Mustang and thats basically the fact it can put its power down and it will handle better on our UK roads. However the Mustang does win in the looks department, the noise department, the grin factor department and the acceleration department, I really love the car. I'd keep it forever if I could but then I think its better to just keep changing cars regular as that way I get myself in many different motors and build up good experience and knowledge of cars.

 

[Gibbo]

Have you considered a Litchfield Subaru Impreza Type−25 (£39,995 New) or is this not your type of car?

Evo ran a track test of some of the fastest cars they have driven for their 1000 magazine celebration.

Evo Magazine Bedford West Circuit Lap times
McLaren F1 - 1:21.20
Ferrari Enzo - 1:21.30
Subaru Impreza Type-25 - 1:22.25
Lotus Exige S - 1:22.40
Ford GT - 1:22.75
Koenigsegg CCX - 1:22.30
Lamborghini Gallardo MY06 - 1:22.80
Porsche 911 (997) Turbo - 1:23.55
Mitsubishi Evo IX FQ340 - 1:24.55
Audi RS4 - 1:28.25
BMW M3 CS - 1:29.80

Fifth gear really raved about it YouTube

If you are after a fast A to B car then nothing is going to be faster for your budget.

Hey like Phil says don't upset the Mustang.

You missed this one out of your list:-
Roush Mustang 420RE: 1:28.50

Quicker than an M3 CS, whatever a CS is anyway and a fraction slower than an Audi RS4, I'd say not bad for a Mustang.

People make their own choices and have their own reasons for doing so. Personally, I'm not moving out until I am ready to make a life with someone I wish to spend the rest of my life with, who may or may not be my current partner but only time will tell. Perhaps Gibbo is the same. If he's got the disposable income and he enjoys splashing it provided he's not digging himself into big debt, then why not?

Thats my thinking Fox too, I will move out, get my own place when I want to or something in my life changes that makes me want too.
At the moment I shall use some of my money on having fun with cars without digging myself into any debt.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Whatever car I get guys it will either be very unique or I will modify it subtly to give a look I like.

Subaru's especially the Type 25 impress me by their ability and how cheap they are for so much power and great handling but unfortunately they don't really appeal to me.

Colour wise I either want black or one of the very dark like gunmetal greys.

I could do this now but I want to get more from the Mustang and I feel that the Porsches will depreciate even more. My goal is an 2002/2003 model with circa 30,000 miles and preferably tiptronic for better reliability.

Obviously once I get it I shall do some basic mods and remap/tune and see how it is and if I want more I have already seen a nice kit for circa £6000 which is bolt-on that gives 640BHP and 700Lb-Ft, now that should win the race to the pub.

I quite like the styling of this one:-

Not too sure about the rear spoiler, maybe something a little smaller. Like the wheels but I think that black/gunmetal allows with a silver outer line would look real nice but subtle.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

A GT2/GT3 I would love if I had endless amounts of money as then I could just have it as weekend/track car along with a great daily driver.

However whatever I get will be my daily driver and will replace the Mustang and the BMW. As our roads are crap and weather often wet I really do want something 4WD as with around 500BHP RWD can be a handful with no traction/stability control when conditions are poor.
I drove the Mustang on Wednesday in the snow/ice and whilst it was fun it was also a nightmare keeping it on the road and then there is the thought of an other road user crashing into me due to ice.
So the last couple of days I have used the BMW and even though its RWD I can still drive it everywhere foot to the floor and slide the rear out very easily as its got far less power and is far less aggressive. It takes basically nowhere near the same concentration level to drive it quick.
However I know why the Mustang breaks the rears loose so easily and its down to two reasons. One is because I adjusted the bypass screw so that torque came in very low, this I can re-adjust to make the torque more progressive which should help putting the power down. The other is those damn huge heavy 20" wheels with very skinny rubber. I am contemplating get some lightweight 18" wheels that are 10" wide on the rear with some 305/45/18 rubber as that will help a lot with traction when laying the power down, plus it will make the car a damn site quicker too.

I want 500BHP, I want to be able to use it so 4WD is ideally a must or a car that is RWD but has a good driver aid programme like say an M5 for when you just want to press-on without the need to be constantly adjusting throttle and steering input whilst attempting to put the power down. If our roads and weather was always great then the Mustang would be awsome, but maybe I can improve the Mustangs ability with a couple of tweaks.

Driving the Mustang is a heap of fun but at the same time it can be a pain when the rear-end is sliding around.


I think these wheels would look ace on a black Porsche:-

 

[Gibbo]

Does the V8 RS4 float your boat?

^ Much better exhausts and spoiler...

Hi there

Again I have great respect for the cars ability and its build quality but it just does not appeal to me.

Maybe I just don't like 4 door/saloon type cars. If I was to buy a 4 door Saloon I'd think the only car I would buy would be an M5 or an EVO FQ340 tuned to 400+ BHP.

I don't suppose anyone knows of any links/reviews they could point me in the direction of please of 996 Turbos both manual and tiptronic so I can learn more about the car and how its tiptronic system works and how the performance differs from the manual?

 

[Gibbo]

What about the Cabriolet?

Warning: Not Suitable For Work!

Obviously the price would come right down given your timeframe...

HI m8

I hate Cabriolets, just don't like them!
The only cabriolet I like if its classed as one is the S2000 and maybe the odd Ferrari but Porsches, Audi's I think look yuck in cabriolet form.

I've been checking up on some US forums and have found a tuner who most of the US guys seem to use with Porsche Turbos.

For $2000 he offers a handheld programmer that stores the cars stock tune which can be re-flashed back at any time for warranty/dealer purposes and can hold upto a further 7 tunes.
For the price you get the programmers, data lead, and three tunes or more for different octane levels or to cater for different mods and style of driving for you car. Loads of guys using these in the states and proven dyno improvement of 90BHP and 140Lb-Ft along with quicker gear changes on tiptronics. So sounds an ideal option if I go for a 911 Turbo.

The thought of owning a 911 with over 500BHP and approx 550Lb-Ft does make me grin and thats just from an ECU flash upgrade. Start improving intake, exhaust the results will be better and then there is bigger turbos if I was to get crazy.

 

[Gibbo]

Why? You just can't use that sort of power on the roads and you've got to be a damn good driver to use it on track

The reason I got rid of the MR2 turbo was cos it was too powerful to get the best out of it. There are too many speed cameras around, too many other drivers and weather in the UK isn't the best. The Elise is perfect for me, it's quick enough (4.9 0-60/13.0 0-100) but the handling is so good that you can enjoy even a trip to the shops for a pint of milk. It costs pennies to run which leaves me plenty of money for my mortgage and plenty of holidays per year, both of which are far more important than any car (to me anyway)

Sure the Mustang allows you to wave your willy around with figures like 500BHP, 20" alloys etc. but personally I think you can have much more fun with much less power.

Hi there

Maybe it does come from my past of been an overclocker and I've carried this obsession over to cars. All my life I've always been one to learn, investigate and get my hands dirty when it comes to cars, computers and other technology.
To me I get great pleasure from fitting a bolt-on mod or overclocking a computer and then been able to see/feel the difference from it.

Why do you say you just can't use the power though? When its dry and warm the Mustang is fine then, I can thoroughly enjoy the head snappin acceleration. The joy from holding on light mad, having to adjust the throttle, correct it on the steering or just drive it smoothly is very rewarding but when its dry and warm on reasonable roads I can easily extract the power and the experience is just menacing.
Also running cost of the Mustang are very low. Servicing is just oil changes which I do myself every 3000 miles, thats £50 a time. The owners book says every 6000, but I always change oil on all my cars every 3000 miles.
Insurance is pennies, £600 fully comp with mods declared. Tyres are expensive but the fronts last around 18,000 miles and the rears around 12,000 miles if I stick to the Pirelli as they are a good all round tyre so not a hugely soft compound and therefor better lasting. Only expense is fuel but I consider 15MPG reasonable for a car with 500BHP and extracting 25MPG on the motorway is easy. If I wished I could keep the Mustang and still have circa £1000 per month for a mortgage with enough money spare for 2-3 holidays per years but at the moment I choose not to get my own house and instead I do a combination of saving a large percentage of that money, going on holidays, buying all sorts of other stuff and just generally buying anything I like the look off.

If I was obsessed with willy waving then I'd have gone for the smaller 3.40 pulley, a more agressive tune and been gunning for 600BHP which is safe on these engines but I knew that would make it very hard to control on the roads, so I went for less power and a more conservative tune. Also the 20" wheels are part of manufacturers specification. I would actually preferre something smaller and lighter with less skinnier tyres to help more with traction and handling. This is something I still may yet change on the car as the combination of heavy 20" wheels with skinny tyres does not aid traction at all.

You are right it does not require huge BHP to have fun, an Elise, Integra are great examples of that but all cars bring different types of fun and it depends on what you want. As I have now experience a 500BHP car however I don't particular want my next car to be slower. If its same then thats great, if its quicker than my god but what a Porsche will bring is better handling and improved ability to use its power irrelevant of road condition due to 4WD and traction control systems. If I bought a slower car yes it still may be fun but I can see myself thinking that everytime I put my foot down I would be missing the Mustangs torque and power.

 

[Gibbo]

Anyone remember that Top Gear Episode when they had the V8 Vantage vs a 911 vs an M6? They did a point to point run on the Isle of Man and the 911 beat all of them. A good example of why so much bhp is unnecessary if the car isnt able to put it all down onto the road.

Yes I do but was it not raining when they did the test? That gives the 911 a huge advantage but is also why I want one.

The Mustang can put the power down but only in good conditions on equally good roads. If coming out of a bend with cambers and applying the throttle on the exit can still push the rear-end out due to the live axle, but its great fun at times.

 

[Gibbo]

How much faster do you really think it is than if it had say 300bhp? In real world terms, quite little I'd say. And remember, this is an M5, which has a hell of a lot of computers to get the best out of the power, whereas the mustang, does not.

Hi there

You are correct as the only thing adjusting the power going to the tarmec in the Mustang is my right foot, when it looses traction, start going sideways etc. I have no computer to bring it under control, again I have to sort it out. This is not necessarily a bad thing it can be great fun but it does mean at times in poor conditions it can make pressing on quickly very demanding of myself. Wheras with say an M5, Porsche, EVO it would be far easier and quicker too in poor conditions.

But Spie makes a very good point, he really does use all 507BHP on the roads and at times even in wet/damp conditions so if a RWD BMW can manage this then I am sure a 4WD Porsche Turbo will manage it even better with upto 600BHP.

I've had an S2000, which was only 240BHP but it was indeed truly great fun and the sound was amazing, but the S2000 is one of the best sounding 4 cylinder engines there is in my oppinion. So in a way you could say I've done the Sports car thing as afterall an S2000 handling abilities are on par with An Elise, maybe not quite as good but certainly not hugely different, just the S2000 in my view has a huge advantage with its engine.

So what I want is Mustang power and reliability but a car that can put that power down on UK roads with our weather with the ability for great tuning potential should I want even more power. I feel the Porsche 996 Turbo will do this very well. Plus now they are becoming great second hand buys. A 4yr car that was 100k new can now be for 40k. Thats 15k per year depreciation wheras that depreciation will start to slow in approx 6-12 months when I make my purchase. Afterall I doubt 996 Turbos will drop below 30k for a few years yet, but in 6-12 months I'd suspect cheap examples to be around 35k with some fantastic examples in the 40-45k region.

 

[Gibbo]

How much faster do you really think it is than if it had say 300bhp? In real world terms, quite little I'd say. And remember, this is an M5, which has a hell of a lot of computers to get the best out of the power, whereas the mustang, does not.

Well thats easy with the M5, you can drive it in the 400BHP mode or choose to drive it in the full 507BHP mode.

I can tell you the difference is quite astonishing even on our roads, so in real world terms I'd say the difference is quite a lot.

If you were referring to two cars that were both RWD with no computers to stop it from falling off the road then yes I'd agree the difference between a 300BHP and 500BHP on some B-Roads would be smaller, but as soon a stretch came along the 500BHP car would just dissapear.

However the real world difference between say a 4WD or RWD car with computers to keep it on the road then the 500BHP will certainly be a lot quicker even on our roads.

 

[Gibbo]

If you use it for more than say 10 seconds you're in serious danger of losing your licence, that was the point I was making, not that somehow impossible to get that amount of power down to the ground (although it's gonna be a damn sight harder to get the power down in the Mustang than it is in the M5 with all your gadgetry)



When I was looking to purchase a car I was very, very tempted to get a 5l TVR because there's not much around that can accelerate like one. Then I went out in an VX and an Elise and realised that whilst it's fun being pushed into your seat when you plant your right foot, it's much more fun being able to corner quicker than Physics should allow you to hence why I bought the 111R (which is hardly slow by anyones standards anyway)
The Elise allows me to make very quick progress, carrying a hell of a lot of speed round corners. Naturally the Mustang would leave me on the straights, but I don't think it would have a chance when the road was anything but straight. (as seen on Top Gear and the Jeremy Clarkson DVD)

With any car that has over 200BHP if you keep your foot planted for 10s you risk getting into serious trouble and loosing your license.

On the top gear test the Mustangs certainly were not embarrased by any means. The first test was a stock Mustang and fair enough it had the Stig driving but the Elise completed the track only like 1-2s quicker.
On the Jeremy Clarkson DVD the Mustang was up against the best Elise there is and in all fairness that Elise only had a very slight edge on the Mustang and only got passed due to driver error. When the lap had finished the Mustang was right up the Elise ass and that was after nearly coming off so clearly pulled back some ground.

One of the guys on Pistonheads took his supercharged Mustang (462BHP) on a Pistonheads run and one of the runners was an Elise. Conditions were a little damp but along the B-Roads the Elise driver could not remove the Mustang from his rear bumper at any point, maybe it was down to the driver but either way saying it would not stand a chance on anything but a straight road is an unfair comment. Especially considering you aint driven a Mustang thats had its suspensions sorted or a Roush, Steeda or Saleen example.
I will agree that with equally good drivers an Elise will corner quicker as the law of physics say so due to how lightweight such a car is but certainly by not enough to embarras a Mustang and as roads/tracks do have straights too then little Elise would be in trouble.

Fact is if I go for a Porsche I get similar straight line performance to my Mustang but basically elise handling but the added benefit of 4WD traction too for those wet colder days.

 

[Gibbo]

So basically the Mustang had a huge BHP advantage AND a professional race driver with years of experience, and the other had Jeremy "fists of ham" driving yet it still won
I wonder what would've happened if they'd switched drivers?

Andy, it's your money but I'm just trying to make the point that IMO I wouldn't spend £30-£40k on a 500BHP car when in reality you don't get enough chance to use all that power to warrant the cost, especially when you still live at home.

If you can happily live with your folks and drive around in a 911 then go for it (can you not stretch to a 355?)

I see you fail to comment about the Roush Mustang against the best Elise both driven by race drivers. The Elise a focus track car only winning due to driver error and still only managing to win by just a car length.

You see though I live with a 500BHP RWD Mustang on a daily basis and whenever I get the chance I make use of its power. So with a 4WD motor with traction assist then surely making use of that power will be an easy task, will it not?

At the moment yes I can happily live with my folks. If I do decide to get a house then wether or not if I own a 30k-50k car will make no difference as I earn enough money to purchase a house too, but at the moment I've made the decision to stay at home. I guess once I've got my hands on the Porsche then I could go for the house as afterall the Porsche I will own and so then I can start putting my income towards a house. As my income is pretty damn good (thanks Mr Spie) but I live up North where 150-200k gets a pretty decent house I have no worries.

I don't understand your argument in not getting chance to use the 500BHP power to warrant the cost especially when still living at home? If Spie can use 507BHP in a RWD M5 on UK roads as a daily driver then a Porsche is gonna manage it with ease due to 4WD.

If I get a Porsche 996 Turbo its not going to put me out of pocket any more than the Mustang does. Insurance will be more on the Porsche but petrol cost will be far lower. So that will balance out. On the Porsche I suspect I will just remap it and maybe an exhaust, total cost about 2k, in comparison I spend about 5k in modding the Mustang possibly more.
So I will still have money saved in my bank and still plenty of spare income per month which instead of saving or spending stupidly at times I could quite easily use to get a nice house as up here in the North house prices are a lot lower, getting something with a drive/garage along with front/rear gardens does not cost a fortune, so when I feel the need to move out I can do so and owning and running a Porsche will not prevent me from doing so.

Ferrari 355's are not a good buy, un-reliable, very old. Why buy one when a Porsche Turbo cost the same and is a far more reliable daily driver?

 

[Gibbo]

Yeah but who cares about anything else. Who ever has the fastest car is the coolest yeah ?

If I thought like that then I could just simply go out and buy an EVO FQ340 for 20k and with the other 20k take it upto some insane amount of power. Or even a Subaru Type 25 from Litchfields.

I do want power but am not interested in owning the fastest car, as thats impossible as there is always a faster car out there on the road. My m8 used to own a Cosworth Van, 450BHP, weighed nothing and would eat any car in a straight line, it was fun seeing the shock on other drivers faces, but its not anything I'd ever want to own.

I like coupe style cars and grand tourers but only 2/3 door models. I guess ruling out 4/5 door cars is a bad thing as then I miss out on amazing cars such as the RS4, RS6 and M5's of the world but they just don't appeal to me.

 

[Gibbo]

It didn't make a mistake, it was being pushed too hard in a corner to keep up with the Exige and wound up spinning.

Hi there

It did not spin, it ran wide. As when they crossed the finishing line the Roush had caught back up and was right on the Elises bumper. The Elise had a slight cornering speed advantage but the Roush had a whopping whole lot more straight line speed.

So considering the Elise is built as a track car in mind and the Mustang is a grand tourer I'd say thats a pretty damn good result in the Mustangs corner.