Poll: Premier League Shake-Up?

PL/EFL changes of structure

  • 18 Team PL, all the power to the top 6 and save the EFL

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • 18 Team PL, little or no more power to the top 6 and save the EFL

    Votes: 56 78.9%
  • 20 Team PL and the EFL dies.

    Votes: 14 19.7%

  • Total voters
    71
A lot of sense being spoken on monday night football regarding Project Big Picture. Neville and Carragher both highlighting the hypocrisy of the other 14 PL clubs and how people need to look at the big picture, no pun intended.

And following on from the last Guardian article, more detail of Greg Clarke's involvement in Project Big Picture:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...of-project-big-picture-talks?CMP=share_btn_tw

Obviously one of the big 6 wasn't impressed with Clarke's finger pointing and have provided emails to the Guardian that show how he wasn't just participating in these talks but was well and truly the driving force behind them. Clarke proposed a two tier PL (and B teams in the EFL), something the others rejected but also talked about how covid and plans for a restructured CL & possible breakaway league would provide an opportunity to force through change. He did also, correctly, say that the other 14 clubs would find it easy use the lazy media to whip this up into a power grab storm.
 
That's obviously your opinion but it's not shared by broadcasters and it stands to reason that broadcasters want more European football and specifically more games between the bigger sides because that's what attracts more viewers. It would appear that your opinion is therefore in the minority. I certainly would rather see an extra few games between Liverpool/Utd/Real/Barca/Bayern etc at the expence of Burnley v West Brom.

As for the comment about not bringing everybody to the table, I was referring to those involved in talks. It had initially been suggested that this was all Liverpool, Utd and Rick Parry's idea however it was just convenient to point the finger at them. Greg Clarke, the chairman of the FA, set it all up and the PL via both Masters and Hoffman were fully aware that talks were going on and in Hoffman's case had seen the plans and was due to participate in future talks. The PL board and FA were happy to act all shocked and offended but it turns out they were well onside too.

I can assure you its not the minority, on football supporter specific forums, the view is overwhelmingly against the big picture, and also of trading league games for international tournaments in general. The FA have been distancing themselves from it, and liverpool and the others cowarded away in the EPL meeting, as they knew public opinion was hugely against it.

I am starting to wonder are you pretending to be a small club fan, as you are text book glory supporter here is what you want.

Control by the glory clubs
Shrink the league
Kill the league cup.
More glamour competitions.

That's text book glory supporter.

Also i see the poll still has no 20 team league "and" bailout the league.

Also yes the TV companies will want what makes them more money, no surprise there, but TV companies dont necessarily represent people.
 
I can assure you its not the minority, on football supporter specific forums, the view is overwhelmingly against the big picture, and also of trading league games for international tournaments in general. The FA have been distancing themselves from it, and liverpool and the others cowarded away in the EPL meeting, as they knew public opinion was hugely against it.

I am starting to wonder are you pretending to be a small club fan, as you are text book glory supporter here is what you want.

Control by the glory clubs
Shrink the league
Kill the league cup.
More glamour competitions.

That's text book glory supporter.

Also i see the poll still has no 20 team league "and" bailout the league.

Also yes the TV companies will want what makes them more money, no surprise there, but TV companies dont necessarily represent people.

I'm starting to wonder if English is your first language or whether you just have reading difficulties.

Firstly, I said you're in the minority in terms of people wanting more big European games, not in relation to project big picture. Please don't try to twist words or change your argument because you just make yourself seem desperate when you do that. Your last sentence is laughable. Broadcasters are doing this because of money but not because it represents what viewers want :o Oh dear. How do they expect to make more money if viewers don't want these games? What do you think is attracting more viewers, Burnley vs anybody or Utd - Bayern Munich? And if you answer that question truthfully you'll see how you're in the minority. I have no issue if you personally don't want more European football but viewing figures are telling broadcasters that the masses do.

As for your point about the FA distancing themselves from it. You obviously didn't read the latest two articles from David Conn. They have emails showing that Greg Clarke, the chairman of the FA, not only instigated the whole thing but was the single biggest driving force for it. As I posted last night, he put forward the idea that the restructured CL (and likely threat of a breakaway League) along with covid made it the right time to push these proposals through. Greg Clarke's initial plans went even further than what was eventually leaked. He proposed ripping up the pyramid altogther and allowing PL B teams in the EFL, something the others involved in the talks rejected. It's not just the FA that were involved and in favour of these plans but the Chairman of the PL was shown the plans and in favour too! Like Greg Clarke they chose to pretend otherwise after the event but somebody's been leaking emails that shows they're little liars. But this is just noise now. We know that the biggest, most powerful figures in English football have all been involved in these proposals - change is going to come, we can only hope it's for the best.

You're a typical, hysterical and hypocritical small 14 fan. I've said on these forums for over 10 years that I'm in favour of fan ownership coupled with far greater revenue sharing (similar to what they have in the US) and spending caps/ffp. It's all or nothing though. You're not going to get revenue sharing without fan ownership and you cannot put FFP into place (fairly) without revenue sharing. Now obviously you don't want to acknowledge that because I highlight the hypocrisy of you and the club you support. You, like many others don't actually want to look at the bigger picture and prefer to be so shocked and offended that Liverpool & Utd were trying to keep more money for themselves and want to divert away from suggestions that the other 14 clubs stance is exactly the same.

The above is the exact point Neville and co made last night. There was so many good parts of Project Big Picture that should be being discussed. You don't have to agree with certain points but who in their right mind doesn't want:
  • Greater distribution of revenue to the EFL, reducing the gap between the top of the EFL and bottom of the PL.
  • Reduced away ticket prices and subsidised travel for supporters.
  • A proportion of TV revenue being reserved for stadium and infrastructure work - instead of every penny being blown on transfers and wages, if a cut of TV money could only be spent on infrastructure work then it will encourage owners to build better facilities.
  • Increased likelihood that Burnley are out of the PL by reducing the PL to 18 teams.
You can want those things without wanting the bad parts. I know this is the internet and you've got to by hysterical and jumpt from extreme to extreme but still we can at least try to debate sensibly.

And finally, your question about the poll. Two reasons, the small 14 clubs have continuously voted against giving the EFL a proper bailout (the dirty greedy ********s not wanting to help those below them!!!!) and because a one off bailout doesn't solve the issues for the EFL. How many EFL sides have gone into administration or on the brink of administration in the years before covid? The current structure and distribution of money is ****ed. The gap in revenue between the bottom of the PL and top of the EFL, along with parachute payments is what has caused the EFL to eat itself alive. And lets get this crystal clear, the reason for the massive gap in revenue and the parachute payments are designed to do one thing, protect the smallest PL sides, not your Liverpool's and Utd's. You and other small 14 hypocrits want to scream and shout about a closed shop at the top of the PL but the PL has been desgined to be a closed shop at the bottom, further highlighted by the PL's decision not to offer Champioship sides a bailout and to put conditions on any bailout to League 1 and 2 sides. The small 14 want their place in the PL to be as secure as possible and money is distributed in a way that whoever gets relegated has a massive financial advantage when it comes to getting promoted back into the PL. Obviously this doesn't suit your agenda though :)
 
I too watched MNF to the very end :D

I knew the distribution of money was poor but the gap between the bottom team in the PL and top team in the Championship was more than I expected. The lower leagues are unsustainable if nothing changes and that includes clubs with very wealthy owners. They aren't going to invest in or even hold onto a leaking product.

I would be very surprised if it goes down the route of using an independent body i.e. our beautiful game. Reshaping big picture and having football fix itself is the most likely outcome.
 
Last edited:
It gets better. In tonight's Guardian they're reporting that not only did the FA, via Greg Clarke, instigate Project Big Picture and the PL board were well aware of talks and saw plans (and were in favour) prior to the leaks but the PL board held a separate meeting (after the leaks) with the top 6 a day before the official PL meeting. It was at that meeting between the PL board and top 6 that they agreed to hold a strategic review of the points raised in Project Big Picture.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...cture-plans-secret-from-clubs-outside-big-six

So the supposed big win for the other 14 clubs at the PL meeting, in ending Project Big Picture but agreeing to a strategic review, was actually decided by the big 6 for them :o

Greg Clarke, Masters and Hoffman's decision to jump on the faux outrage bandwagon has clearly backfired with somebody at one of the big 6 clubs leaking these emails to the Guardian.
 
Shows the arrogance of the big 6, thinking they have any sway over the 14 other clubs.

I'm sure if they were included from the start, the outcome would have been a lot difference.

Reap what you sow
 
Shows the arrogance of the big 6, thinking they have any sway over the 14 other clubs.

I'm sure if they were included from the start, the outcome would have been a lot difference.

Reap what you sow
You do understand that the big 6 and PL board decided what would happen, not the other 14 clubs right? They just let the other 14 clubs think it was their decision but it was made 24 hours earlier in their private meeting.
 
I seen this and just rotflmao :D
You should really read the article I linked last night. It's been revealed that 24 hours before the PL meeting, the PL board and top 6 met and agreed what would happen.

You might not like it but you're incredibly naive if believe that the top sides don't call the shots. The only news that the Guardian articles have provided is that both the FA and PL board have been actively involved with everything behind the other 14 clubs backs.
 
Right :rolleyes:

So like how the original proposal was accepted :D
The original proposal was never proposed as it was not finalised :rolleyes:

As I said, you should really read whats been revealed in the Guardian as you clearly don't know what you're talking about. The PL didn't reveal that they were aware of talks nor that Hoffman had seen the plans, was in favour and due to join the talks and they certainly didn't tell the other 14 clubs that they met the big 6 one day before to agree a strategy moving forwards.

The PL have admitted to or not disputed all of the above BTW and its all been revealed from leaked emails but put your head in the sand if you wish.

edit: Below is a chain of events, according to the leaked emails seen by the Guardian, for anybody like you that's struggling to keep up with what's happened:
  • Greg Clarke (the chairman of the FA) approaches Bruce Buck (Chelsea Chairman and member of various PL boards) with his proposals - these include most of what was leaked at the start of the month but also had a 2 tier PL + PL B teams in the EFL, which were removed.
  • John Henry (Liverpool owner), the Glazers (Utd owner), Rick Parry (head of the EFL) and Richard Masters (PL CEO) are then invited to join the talks. All accept except Masters, who is instead kept up to date via Bruce Buck.
  • During the talks it's Greg Clarke that brings up the threat of breakaway leagues and covid as opportunities to force these changes through.
  • Talks postpone while everybody is dealing with the covid situation but in September, Greg Clarke contacts John Henry to get things back on track.
  • The Plans are shown to Gary Hoffman (PL Chairman) who says the PL board have been doing some planning too and shared a lot of the points in Big Picture and agrees to join in further talks.
  • The plans are leaked - the FA and PL announce how shocked they are, pretending they don't know anything about it.
  • The PL board meet in secret with the big 6 and agree that they won't pursue Project Big Picture but will instead carry out a strategic review of their own on the exact same issues.
  • The PL meet, with the other 14 clubs completley unaware that the FA & PL were involved in the planning, in favour of it and already met with the big 6 to discuss how to move forwards. The 14 clubs have their moment, believing they've won a battle when in actual fact they agreed to something the PL board and big 6 decided on 24 hours earlier.
  • Everybody will now discuss and debate all the issues raised in the leaked document and various compromises will be made. The likely outcome will be more space created in the calendar to fit more European games in (who knows whether that can happen without an 18 team PL), more overseas TV money going to the bigger sides and a bit more money filtering down to the EFL.
 
Last edited:
That's a very good summary

edit: Below is a chain of events, according to the leaked emails seen by the Guardian, for anybody like you that's struggling to keep up with what's happened:
  • Greg Clarke (the chairman of the FA) approaches Bruce Buck (Chelsea Chairman and member of various PL boards) with his proposals - these include most of what was leaked at the start of the month but also had a 2 tier PL + PL B teams in the EFL, which were removed.
  • John Henry (Liverpool owner), the Glazers (Utd owner), Rick Parry (head of the EFL) and Richard Masters (PL CEO) are then invited to join the talks. All accept except Masters, who is instead kept up to date via Bruce Buck.
  • During the talks it's Greg Clarke that brings up the threat of breakaway leagues and covid as opportunities to force these changes through.
  • Talks postpone while everybody is dealing with the covid situation but in September, Greg Clarke contacts John Henry to get things back on track.
  • The Plans are shown to Gary Hoffman (PL Chairman) who says the PL board have been doing some planning too and shared a lot of the points in Big Picture and agrees to join in further talks.
  • The plans are leaked - the FA and PL announce how shocked they are, pretending they don't know anything about it.
  • The PL board meet in secret with the big 6 and agree that they won't pursue Project Big Picture but will instead carry out a strategic review of their own on the exact same issues.
  • The PL meet, with the other 14 clubs completley unaware that the FA & PL were involved in the planning, in favour of it and already met with the big 6 to discuss how to move forwards. The 14 clubs have their moment, believing they've won a battle when in actual fact they agreed to something the PL board and big 6 decided on 24 hours earlier.
  • Everybody will now discuss and debate all the issues raised in the leaked document and various compromises will be made. The likely outcome will be more space created in the calendar to fit more European games in (who knows whether that can happen without an 18 team PL), more overseas TV money going to the bigger sides and a bit more money filtering down to the EFL.
 
Back
Top Bottom