Prices gone mad

[R.O.S.S.I]

Simply because, we have decent train lines from Bolton.

Also, a bolton line would somehow have to branch off from the Radcliffe or Bury terminal and Bury is a dead end.

I see what you mean about it having to branch off a line.

Suppose the trains aren't too bad from Bolton, the station deffo needs a overhaul though, its extremely depressing.
At least there are no ticket people on so its pretty much free travel into Manchester/Salford when I go to mates and uni. lol

 

[photoshop]

what happened to choice ?

 

[platypus]

Bolton would benefit hugely from a metro stop, can't understand why its not been put on.

Well if I recall, the metro to Oldham, Shaw, Rochdale etc is being run on the old train lines. They might do the same with Bolton.

 

[WillyNelson]

Why not try and achieve a public transport system that people want to use in preference to the car?

Exactly! But it is unrealistic to expect this to be created by the businesses that run public transport as a ready to use, instant overhaul solution. It will require a lot of give & take from both the supplier and the consumer, as I said earlier.

It's no use complaining that public transport in this country is rubbish and that it should be improved if you're not willing to do something to aid that improvement yourself.

Also people can post in here all the like stating their situation and how using public transport is completely infeasible for them which is fair enough, the idea isn't to get every single person in the country on public transport. It's just the fact is many people do drive when public transport is feasible alternative, we've just all got into the habit of being able to go where we want when we want, which at the end of the day is a luxury that wasn't always so!

I was beginning to think it was just me...!

 

[4p]

Well if I recall, the metro to Oldham, Shaw, Rochdale etc is being run on the old train lines. They might do the same with Bolton.

Most of the new lines are existing networks yes, as was the Bury line.

There is no existing train lines for Bolton to feasibly 'attach' to the Network.

As i said earlier, it would have to join on somewhere between Bury/Radcliffe and that would be quite difficult (They are either in trenches or elevated quite high).

 

[Muffin`]

Tram IMG

Have they increased the capacity since 2001-2002? I went from Besses into Manchester City Centre for two weeks and it was (iirc) two-two carriges every six minuets in rush hour and a number of times I couldn't get on. Coming back was even worse.

 

[Muffin`]

The gov't could force change with legislation & proper use of the strategic authority they have over the rail network. They could even re-nationalise it if they wanted to. It needs to be a concerted effort from both the supplier and the consumer, not a 'you jump & I'll follow' attitude from both sides.

What about the Bus network? And what legislation can they bring in that doesn’t conflict with a free market?

 

[4p]

Have they increased the capacity since 2001-2002? I went from Besses into Manchester City Centre for two weeks and it was (iirc) two-two carriges every six minuets in rush hour and a number of times I couldn't get on. Coming back was even worse.

No they havn't really

I got it clocked now though, i know where the rear door stops on my most regular stops. So i just stand where it will open and im the first in

Weither its full or not doesn't bother me.

 

[Conscript]

But at the moment, the government seems to be doing nothing about it and slapping extortionate prices on motoring. It feels like the government knows that the public will pay, so they insist on bleeding them dry. Why bother to provide an alternative at all, when there's so much money to be had from high motoring prices?

Exactly, and the longer we keep paying & not really doing anything to promote change it will continue this way.

And how exactly do we promote change? By using the alternative. But, as we've argued, for many people an alternative simply does not exist.

Face it, the government is going to have to institute the change. The public transport system is already full to bursting, there is no way they can ignore that, so for the me the "they wont improve it until we use it" argument doesn't wash.

 

[Dolph]

Exactly! But it is unrealistic to expect this to be created by the businesses that run public transport as a ready to use, instant overhaul solution. It will require a lot of give & take from both the supplier and the consumer, as I said earlier.

It's no use complaining that public transport in this country is rubbish and that it should be improved if you're not willing to do something to aid that improvement yourself.

The only thing preventing companies getting involved properly in mass transport is restrictive legislation, creating localised monopolies, and restrictive planning rules preventing any new builds due to nimbys in most cases.

 

[pitchfork]

America don't get ****** over in the way we do, yet we fight their war. This country has a government so warped and disgustingly corrupt its unreal, but we've got to live with it or go somewhere else.

 

[dannyjo22]

Petrol now a fiver a gallon
Gas and electricity up 15% - 20%
Mortgage repayments rocketing
Council tax up again
Another budget about to be announced
Now bread prices going through the roof - up 40% this year!!

All down to the price of wheat apparently so thats going to impact on Bacon, Pork, Chicken and eggs.

It's all getting a bit silly........in rip off britain.

I still don't know how they can get away with charging nearly a quid a can for Redbull. £4 a litre, you can't tell me thats harder to make and transport than fuel. So fuel is relatively cheap

Or how a bag of crisps can be nearly 40p. 1 ounce of potatoes for 40p.

 

[Tefal]

Or how a bag of crisps can be nearly 40p. 1 ounce of potatoes for 40p.

oil, heat, transport, packaging, insurance, health and safety reports etc.

 

[WillyNelson]

And how exactly do we promote change? By using the alternative. But, as we've argued, for many people an alternative simply does not exist.

Well if it's not there you can't use it, that seems so obvious that it doesn't need to be said. But when a feasable alternative is there, people still don't use it!

Face it, the government is going to have to institute the change. The public transport system is already full to bursting, no it's not, it's half empty for the majority of the time there is no way they can ignore that, so for the me the "they wont improve it until we use it" argument doesn't wash.

But they won't. Because they'd have to pay for it through taxation and you'd **** & moan if that happened. So they'd have to look to PPP, but no private company is going to invest in a completely overhaulled transport network if you refuse to use it until it's finished & working properly. So if you want your public transport system to be improved to the point where you are inticed out of your car and onto a cheaper, greener and more socially responsible alternative then you are going to have to do at least a small part yourself and not expect someone to hand it to you on a silver platter.

 

[Dolph]

I still don't know how they can get away with charging nearly a quid a can for Redbull. £4 a litre, you can't tell me thats harder to make and transport than fuel. So fuel is relatively cheap

Or how a bag of crisps can be nearly 40p. 1 ounce of potatoes for 40p.

That's supply and demand, people will pay that much for them, so that's the price the market sets.

Tax is much more of a problem, because that's set randomly and then force or threat of force from the state is used to take it...

 

[apatia77]

Germany has a great Public T system, so does Hong Kong...

Why don't we?

we dont pay enough taxes to afford better public transport, it costs money to run it

 

[Conscript]

But they won't. Because they'd have to pay for it through taxation and you'd **** & moan if that happened. So they'd have to look to PPP, but no private company is going to invest in a completely overhaulled transport network if you refuse to use it until it's finished & working properly. So if you want your public transport system to be improved to the point where you are inticed out of your car and onto a cheaper, greener and more socially responsible alternative then you are going to have to do at least a small part yourself and not expect someone to hand it to you on a silver platter.

Not the case. I have no trouble with paying taxes if I see something for it. That's how society works, and I have no issue with that. But prices seem to be rising and we don't seem to be seeing a lot of return for it; just promises of 'green' initiatives. At least take the money from motoring excises and use it to fund the transport network. I'd fully support the nationalisation of the transport system, so it is run as a service and not to make a profit.

You say that the transport system is half empty for most of the time. Yes, but it's also overloaded at the times when it is needed most. Perhaps the solution is to shift resources to peak times? If the transport system can start adapting itself to be there, available and affordable when people need it most, it might well make people more inclined to use it as an alternative when it's not as vital.

Please, don't consider me as some sort of environment hating petrol head. I like driving, yes, and at the moment I drive a lot due to it being so much easier and quicker. But I really would like to see Britain with an organised, efficient affordable and well thought out mass transport system.

 

[RDM]

Well if it's not there you can't use it, that seems so obvious that it doesn't need to be said. But when a feasable alternative is there, people still don't use it!

However we are still "encouraged" to use this non-existant public transport system via the taxation on fuel. That's hardly fair is it?

 

[Eriedor]

At the end of the day you all still have choices that many people could exercise but you don't want to, an still moan at petrol prices. You want the best of both worlds, having it cheap but not having to sacrifice anything.

If petrol really was so disgustingly over taxed you couldn't afford it you could buy a more efficient car, buy a road bike, car pool, or maybe not spend as much money on the luxury items we assume it is our right to possess.

Also you have to admit the more expensive petrol has driven the car industry to provide fuel efficient cars which is beneficial to us all.

 

[DanTheMan]

To be honest, if I lived and worked in Manchester all my life, it would be quicker and cheaper to travel to and from work on the metrolink. It used to be quicker for me to get to college in Bury on the metrolink than it was driving.

The only reason I have a car is for the women .