I fear you are correct but you never know with the tour. I still remember that absolutely insane TT that Jonas did that just put everyone else to shame. Watching the analysis between him and the others was just amazing. How he stayed in the drops so much more than the others. How smooth he was and how fast he put the power down again after a corner. Was a masterclass.
Pro Cycling Thread 2023
- Thread starter SoliD
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I fear you are correct but you never know with the tour. I still remember that absolutely insane TT that Jonas did that just put everyone else to shame. Watching the analysis between him and the others was just amazing. How he stayed in the drops so much more than the others. How smooth he was and how fast he put the power down again after a corner. Was a masterclass.
I think one of my favourite things about the TdF is the monster amount of effort people put into the stuff at the side of course. People making a 100m long bike out of hay bales. Drawing huge pictures in the sand. All the messages, the murals etc.
Yeah, I have no idea honestly. A lot of people seem absolutely convinced but there is currently zero evidence. All I would say is that if he is doping then most of them will be at it. I think hes just a freak amongst freaks. A Usain Bolt, Lionel Messi, Michael Phelps etc. Someone who is just better than their peers.
I was hoping Vingegaard would put up a good fight with his teammates to help out but currently its looking like hes going to run away with it.
Absolutely insane attack on one of the most challenging climbs on the tour. Pogacar, What a beast! Vingegaard hasn’t been able to touch him this year, but they’re in a class of two really. The first TT was interesting, I think JV might just not be on his absolute best form.
I would say that perhaps Vingegaard is on top form. I think the issue is that Pogacar is just in the absolute form of his life and thats putting him a level above everyone. I think the last time Vingegaard beat Pogacar was when Jumbo Visma were by far and away the best team and now thats not the case. Pogacar was also nowhere near as good in the mountains as he is these days.
I was looking at the data this morning and it doesn't seem to support that argument.
Pogi was a minute or so quicker up Hautacam this year than he was in 2022. JV was a minute slower. The 2022 stage is where Jonas arguably won the race which was stage 18 after some harder and hotter days preceding it.
Vingegaard Ends the Tour de France 2022 on Hautacam - Lanterne Rouge
Jonas Vingegaard continued to show his impressive form on the final mountain day of an enthralling edition of the Tour de France. Stage 18 finished with the legendary Hautacam climb where Jonas Vingegaard took a big leap towards the overall victory by putting more than a minute into Tadej...
lanternerouge.com
Pogačar Destroys GC Riders on Hautacam | Tour de France 2025 Stage 12 - Lanterne Rouge
It was the first real mountain stage of this years Tour de France with a finish up the…
lanternerouge.com
Tour is as good as over, I'd expect Pogacar to put another couple of minutes on him in the TT and that will be that.
I watch the tour every year and always really enjoy it. I think we are in a world where the ‘grey area’ around chemicals/pharmaceuticals will be developed faster by the big pro teams than they can be tackled. Pog, and others, will be on some magic potion, but I hope (for the sake of the sport) it will be marginally outside the current definitions of illegal doping.
IGD are going down the pan this year it seems though!
IGD are going down the pan this year it seems though!
I hear what you are saying but cycling isn't just a simple case of power down and win the race. Pogacar just broke him yesterday. As far as I can tell, JVs tour strategy is to stick to Pogacar like glue. Just follow him. I know these guys are professionals but you can't overestimate the difference that pacing makes and how easy it is to completely ballbag yourself on a climb by setting an unsustainable pace. You might do that first 20% faster but that last 80% can be torture if you haven't paced properly.
I would be interested to see a comparison of JV/Pogacar this year vs 2 years ago on that climb. Like a strava comparison where you can see where the time was lost/gained.
The main reason I think JV is in top form is that he has been able to hold Pogacars wheel even in the explosive attacks up til now.
I think the last time JV won the tour he was being backed by a much better team than Pogacar had as well. Now its much of a muchness and JV can't just slowly turn the screw on Pogacar to burn him out.
All of this however is massively amateur analysis so pinch of salt and all that.
Do you think he’s held on? I think every attack, other than yesterday, Pog has reined it in a bit and JV should count himself fortunate.
Mines an amateur analysis too
I think that Pogacar has tried to drop him quite a few times but has failed and given up a few times so as not to burn himself out. When you can't tell where the other guys limit is, you don't want to push too hard and find out its higher than your own. I think Pogacar has certainly been surprised by Jonas' ability to join him in the little bursts he likes to do.
I wonder now though if he will simply ride away with it. He knows Vingegaards limits now. Pogacar certainly emptied the tank yesterday but not as much as Jonas and he put 2 minutes into Jonas.
The result of the TT today will determine if I waste any more time following the tour this year.
It wouldn't be fair to single out Tadej as I believe they all are on tart cherry juice it's just he is the best while still drinking that juice. But as a spectator, it's not exactly thrilling to watch.
Though, I am of the opinion it's not in the UCI's interests to bust any of the top dogs for juicing and I also believe the organisers of these events silently want doping. They want the headlines of shattering records, fastest ever tour etc etc. Those sort of headlines make it exciting to watch. 'Slowest tour ever' or 'watch them climb this HC mountain slower than ever before' has the same ring to it.
It wouldn't be fair to single out Tadej as I believe they all are on tart cherry juice it's just he is the best while still drinking that juice. But as a spectator, it's not exactly thrilling to watch.
Though, I am of the opinion it's not in the UCI's interests to bust any of the top dogs for juicing and I also believe the organisers of these events silently want doping. They want the headlines of shattering records, fastest ever tour etc etc. Those sort of headlines make it exciting to watch. 'Slowest tour ever' or 'watch them climb this HC mountain slower than ever before' has the same ring to it.
I would perhaps agree that its not in the UCIs interests to catch any of the top guys but I don't think they want doping. All these crazy performances do is generate negative headlines and discussions about doping. They would much rather the tour be talked about for itself rather than comparisons to previous ones.
I don't think these headlines in the cycling world are good for the sport.
Yeah but they can just point to a few inconsequential riders who get popped for doping and be like "See, our anti-doping practices do work because we've caught this guy". As long as they can present an image of a clean sport, that's all they'll worry about.
I'm not sure how much you follow other sports but I loosely follow athletics but heavily follow boxing - both sports where juicing can be tempting (though unlike boxing the IOC and World Athletics actually appear to take doping seriously and hand out length bans. Boxing just hands out a weasly 6 month ban in a sport where you could kill an opponent...).
If you follow athletics you'll absolutely know his name but he also works with some prominent, and sadly one of my favourite, boxers under his SNAC brand. Victor Conte. The go-to man for doping. He had a really interesting video where he goes into how easy it was/could still be to circumvent testing. I recall reading that if you're signed up to VADA/WADA they can only do the surprise testing between certain hours. So if you micro-dose you shouldn't have any traces left in your system by the time they're able to test you but you'll still reap the benefits.
It's a game of cat and mouse but the big money is in cheating so they'll always be ahead of the testers. Though I believe they now keep blood samples for a long time so they could always revisit the blood in decades to come.
This is a really good video to watch if you find this sort of stuff interesting.